Eric and Eliot welcome Professor H.W. Brands, the Jack S. Blanton Chair in History at the University of Texas, Austin and the bestselling author of more than a dozen books on American history. They discuss his book America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War (New York: Doubleday, 2024) touching on: what drew Brands to the subject of the America First movement; the nature of the national debate on radio from 1939–1941; the transformation of the nation's default foreign policy of noninterventionism to globalism; the role of the congressional fight over repealing the Neutrality Acts; Lindbergh’s racialized thinking and antisemitism; how the speech he gave in Des Moines at an America First rally in fall 1941 destroyed his national image and reputation; Lindbergh’s personal character (and his multiple affairs with and children by German women in the last twenty years of his life); the transition in elite thinking from hemispheric defense to a global posture of forward defense; the British and German influence operations to shape American public opinion before Pearl Harbor; the contemporary overtones of Lindbergh’s noninterventionism; and the political naïveté today visible in Donald Trump and Elon Musk.
America First: Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War
Shield of the Republic is a Bulwark podcast cosponsored by the Miller Center of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia.
A Nazi Germany triumphant on the European continent or in Eurasia with the defeat of the Soviet Union would have been an eventual direct threat to the U.S. as FDR realized. A Russian triumph over Ukraine, even a partial triumph, would be a direct threat to the Baltic states, Poland, Romania and other border states, it would weaken NATO, and it would represent a serious challenge to U.S. security as Russia and China would solidify their relationship, and perhaps target Taiwan. As Mark Twain said, history does not precisely repeat itself, but it often rhymes.
It’s interesting to note that FDR never forgave his adversary Lindbergh and would not let him directly participate in WW II, but his adversary in the 1940 election, Wendell Wilkie, who vociferously opposed FDR’s New Deal, but was not an isolationist, received some important diplomatic and intelligence assignments from Roosevelt during the war before he died.
I just wrote last week that Trump is not really an isolationist, but a unilateralist. I think the "hemisphericist" label might add to our understanding of Trump. I'll be watching to see how well the label fits him.
I gave up after five minutes because it sounds like someone is cracking walnuts. I think I really would’ve enjoyed that episode.
It's his mic rubbing on the zipper of the pullover.
ah! that explains the clothing change at 8m to a sweatshirt, no zipper!
If you wait 3 more minutes, problem is solved.
Thanks! I will give it a go!
I actually enjoyed your remark because I was like, "Oh, no! He endured a whole five minutes of the zipper-mic battle, but gave up just before it got magically solved." Sorry, in times like these, I find humor wherever I can.
Most people figure out by kindergarten that a “Me First” attitude gets “Me Last” results.
We should stop socially promoting conservatives.
Interesting but unlistenable due to the background noise.
They break at 8minute mark and Prof Brands has changed shirts. Someone mentioned they thought it was his zipper from the first sweater rubbing against the mic. Problem is resolved at that point, so you may have given up too soon.
Another great conversation. Thank you.
At the end, Prof.BrNds, I believe it was, said in contrasting Lindbergh and Musk, that Lindbergh did not need to concern himself with making money, because he inherited money. I would like to assert that Musk came from money too, but still concerns himself with that. He seems pathologically insatiable with wanting always more of it.
Great conversation. I would love to have a time machine and see what they say about the current times in our country 50 years from now. We've been through rough times before as a country. We'll go through them again. The question is just what kind of shape things will be in and that's not even taking into account all the environmental problems we have! My current wish is that ior some of the senior leadership in this country step aside and let the next generation have a go at it.
In the House, Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer did just that. Two years ago, they stepped down and passed the baton to the next generation. It's too bad no one else in DC is following their example.
What is the background noise? It's very distracting.
Must have been some sort of technical issue that needed fixing because it's evident they go to "commercial break" right around the 8m mark there's a blip and Professor Marks, who started with a light gray type sweater, is now wearing a dark blue sweatshirt, and the crinkling sound has disappeared.
Someone else said that the zipper on his sweater was rubbing up against the microphone. I guess that explains why he changed his sweater.