RIP to the legend—Hulk Hogan. The gang gathered to remember the great one and talk about how professional wrestling informs our politics today.
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Hulk Hogan: Rest in Peace
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Bulwark+ Takes
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Bulwark+ Takes brings you bite-sized takes on the news of the day from the entire Bulwark team. This is the home to ad-free video shorts, Bulwark+ member-only livestreams, and live event archives. The news cycle doesn’t slow down, and neither do we.
Bulwark+ Takes brings you bite-sized takes on the news of the day from the entire Bulwark team. This is the home to ad-free video shorts, Bulwark+ member-only livestreams, and live event archives. The news cycle doesn’t slow down, and neither do we.
Appears in episode
Joe Perticone
Jonathan V. Last
Sonny Bunch
Recent Episodes
For more on pro wresting and American politics: https://www.thebulwark.com/t/wrestling
"The best available version of the truth." - The Carl Bernstein standard - I think at some point what's true, ought to matter, or, has got to matter. How commonly is it held, in our moment, that what's, in fact, true, is important, is important to find?
I think the insight that this government and it's entertaining hold on a voting population is kayfabe is a truly excellent and important insight.
Guys! Why are you covering this racist misogynist pig? Elvis? Seriously? I am glad he is is gone.
JVL's formulation of Hulk Hogan as avatar of America--that our cultural icons reflect who we are in terms of values, aesthetics, etc.--is both fascinating and chilling, because, after all, doesn't the same dynamic apply to the kayfabest of the kayfabe, Fatass himself?
But there's an aspect of the wrestling phenomenon which was left untouched here, and that's its camp/homoeroticism, which, as in pro football, is so glaringly obvious that I'm not sure you can even really call it subtext in good conscience. It's just text.
If we take as axiomatic
a) that pro wrestling reflects American culture, values, aspirations, etc. and
b) that there's a very, very strong strain of camp running through it--that, in fact, it's pretty much all camp
... then what does that say about the culture?
RIP John Ozzy Osborne
RiP Malcolm Jamal Warner
RIP Chuck Mangione
May Terry Hulk's racist memory be erased and mocked when it is remembered
https://fxtwitter.com/NebsGoodTakes/status/1948428784656679069
Thank you for including Mangione. I cannot believe that Hogan is getting more attention than someone who created widely-loved music.
JVL has a point. I see the connections he's making. I don't think they are celebrating him, but his connections to MAGA, and the way wrestling influenced them and how they act and react, it's unfortunately relevant.
Hogan is another exploiter of the juvenilization of American men. Put away your Star Wars dolls and wrestling posters and video games. It's been God awe full watching young men get stuck in a permanent childhood.
Hulk Hogan=WWE=Trump. Enough said.
JVL, this what true love is...my affection for you, your perspective, your insight, our mutual interest in collecting watches (I just bought 3 NIB gorgeous Wittnauer windups...original boxes, papers, etc. Not particularly valuable, but a snapshot into my childhood growing up in NYC in the 60's. It's fun). The fact that you love wrestling is something i've come to terms with. My wife likes Indian food, such is life.
The whole thing is forking (JVL) WEIRD! Spoken by an old cynical lady!
I love the Bulwark immensely, but memorializing Hulk Hogan is not worthy of this wonderful place. IMHO.
I can't bring myself to mourn the death of someone who proudly said he was a racist after dropping multiple N words.
I mourn my childhood. I mourn that the 80s and 90s, the stupid movies we watched, the TV shows we loved, the idea that the world isn't a terrible place is gone.
Cosby "alleged" rapist, Hulk racist. Watching the Winslow Family, Family Ties, Full House, those ideals are gone and replaced by trash.
My brain can't wrap around the fact that America gave us Dolly Parton and also Donald Trump.
So horrible. Why are they talking about him? Seriously.
JVL, comparing Hulk to Elvis is shameful. STFU.
Is it too much to hope that there will be a 3rd, you know it happens in threes, over the top reality tv personalities will pass? That said, Ozzy doesn't belong in this disgusting crowd. I'll take a decapitated bat, as much as I love bats, so less terrible than Hulk and the possible third reality/reality game show titan who somehow is POTUS. Sorry boys, I have no sympathy for the MAGA, racist Hulk. Ya'll are way too intelligent to be into the wrestling soap opera. Find a new guilty pleasure. This one is depraved.
Comrade JVL coming in hot.
Didn't live long enough to see the concentration camps he helped build.
I have been thinking about this too. Since I heard JVl talk about pro wrestling before.
Trump was part of the scene. Then giving Linda McMahon a position in the cabinet.
As a pre teen I would ride my bike to my best friends house and watch wrestling on cable television. We would jump off the furniture and act out all the moves. I thought often of the fans, '"Do they know this is fake?" Even when I enjoyed it myself.
In this way it can explain the MAGA, maybe they just convince themselves to ignore all the glaring facts just to support their guy. Is this cognitive dissonance, or some other mental ailment?
Hogan and Andre was a big moment for me. No one could pick Andre up and slam him.
Well this was enlightening.
I'm just waiting for the conspiracy theory . . . he was killed to distract us from the Epstein stuff. I need to read the comments below, but do we know how or what was cause of death? I was bummed to see him act as a Trump spokes person, but not surprised. I did watch some CLR Bruce YouTube on his son getting pulled over for a DUI and he wasn't an A-hole, but a concerned Dad so that was kinda refreshing. RIP
As a WWF fan going back the pre-Hogan days, Bruno Sammartino was my first champ, Hogan was a total stiff. He came on the scene first as a villain, and he still sucked, disappeared for about a year and came back as the clearly designated next champ, I think he was going to unseat the Iron Sheik, and he still sucked. His ring work was boring. His interview schtick was cheesy and repetitive. Totally put me off the WWF forever,
Akilah Hughes did an episode called “Politics is Wrestling” on her “How Is This Better?” Podcast. She interviews Dave Schilling who was a WWE writer and “The Progressive Liberal”, who shockingly wasn’t a heel. I really liked how Dave Schilling described the difference between Obama and Trump, “ [Obama was] all of the soft power of charisma versus the hard power of sheer brazenness”. Akilah asks if The Rock or John Cena could beat Trump, which I thought was hilarious, and Schilling then replies that he had hope for Fetterman at first because of his size and how he would look going up against JD Vance, he described them as Andre The Giant and Peanut “[Fetterman’s] gonna eat the Peanut”!
Man, now I gotta watch this and South Park. LOL thx.
Also, RIP Ozzy 🦇
Sorry. Not.
Did Joe lose a bet and had to make this appearance? Because he looked bored (I can't believe we're talking about this guy) and incredulous (why are we talking about this guy?). Imagine 30 years hence playing a clip of Trump and explaining that - not we - but people we thought we knew and loved put him in office twice - once when we had 4 years to contemplate his criminal behavior, betrayal of veterans and every noble founding principle of our country. You think the 1980's Hulk Hogan clip didn't age well?
I never watched wrestling, but I’m sorry to the Hogan family.
JVL, I was in my early/mid 20s had a blast watching wrestling on TV, kinda like a soap opera. I was lucky enough to see Hulk Hogan wrestle Andre the Giant, IN PERSON, at the New Haven Coliseum. (also got punched in the nose by another girl, long story). But truly a memory of a lifetime. So sad that he had to end up this way......thoughts to all the Hulkamaniacs out there!
omg Hulk Hogan resonates with me in a completely different way. I was the only gal in an 10 man machine shop and I guess they decided Hulk Hogan, who I was entirely unaware of, was the man for me. I was inundated with Hulk Hogan pinups on my Kennedy toolbox, Hulk Hogan was the theme of a birthday "party" they threw for me. I had that damn Hulk Hogan calendar for years, I don't know why I didn't chuck it the first day. Yeah, no. Not my thing.
So you were being sexually harassed. That was their goal.
Sure. Absolutely. The '80's were no picnic. A complaint would have gotten me blackballed from the industry. I chose to be there, to stay. They eventually got rid of me anyway but I got lucky and slid into a prototype position with another division of the same company 2 days later. And yes, harassment was just part of the landscape back then, it didn't go away, but I got skills writing code and doing CAD design and eventually it was less socially acceptable to practice harassment overtly.
I remember the 80s. Sometimes my husband will ask me if I hate men. I tell him I hate a lot of men, but they all deserve it.
A memory came crashing back of one of the machinists putting on tighty whities on top of his jeans with a sock stuffed in to represent his member. Hmm. Well I can't say no one ever threw me a birthday party. I'll skip the memorial service.
No great loss. Just another fascist.
Am I the only one who hypnotically stares at Sonny's hair while he's talking? Probably just me. (I am jealous of all that hair. Wish I had enough to pull off something similar.)
My goal is to one day be able to stack it as high as Shea Whigham in MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: DEAD RECKONING.
Not sad to me. To paraphrase Joni Ernst, we're all going to die.
Yeah. Zero regrets here.
JVL is always if not right then rightly aware when something important is involved so even if he happens to be off the mark on rare occasion, it behooves a serious person to take his thoughts seriously.
But professional wrestling???? My head is hurting.
If what was shown in the promo clip of Mr Hogan is charisma, then holy sh—t and good luck America indeed.
I would have been very sad about this about 20 years ago. Now I'm just sad that Hogan lived so long when so many other better people from the wrestling world were taken too early.
Yea.
What an absolute snake - Good riddance to bad baggage - Carney or not.
What did Hulk Hogan know about Jeffrey Epstein?
...Tim said we should start our own conspiracy theories, so we're just supposed to believe this happened the day the DOJ meant with Maxwell.
Heel.
He leaves light footprints on my beach. Bleah.
Hahaha I remember my nephews watching WWF in the 80's when I purchased my first home at a 10% interest rate. Yah right. The good Ole days..Rolling my eyes..
I missed the beginning of the livestream, so I was confused why Hogan's death warranted a Bulwark live show. But when JVL started talking about kayfabe, it clicked. My favorite Triad since becoming a member remains this gem from last July:
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/pro-wrestling-explains-why-trump?utm_source=publication-search
Good riddance. I wish I could erase him from my childhood.
🤔🤔🤔
His racism goes with him.
You got it Joe.
So it comes in threes and with Ozzy and Hulk gone, who's next?
Chuck Mangione
Malcolm-Jamal Warner was the first on July 20th. So Hulk was the third......
oh I missed that one!
Can i say that all the steroids got to his brain????
Sarah Longwell is somewhere feeling very upset she wasn’t tabbed for this conversation
😆
Guys, Chuck Mangione, who was in King of the Hill constantly, just passed, too. Far more awesome. :)
HH not “trustworthy”?! Lol Just like his buddy Trump
When Bowie, Prince and George Michael died the same year as Brexit and Trump, it seemed to mark the end of an era. Any chance that we’ll look back at Hulk Hogan’s death and the bungling of the “Epstein files” as marking the decline of the kayfabe era?
I never thought of Trump as the kayfabe president, but that's perfect. The 80s had amazing music (RIP Prince), but the Reagan era didn't do us many favors.
Big Time Wrestling was a distraction. Same time when 800 channels with nothing on started.
Was that what that was? “Charisma”? We can only hope that HH’s passing is a precursor to his political alter-ego’s going on to that big ring in the sky…
Hulk Hogan's is not the obituary that I'm waiting for.
He is passing everything but away.
If you're thinking of the same person that I am, I'm not sure that one deserves an obit.
Such a horrible person, really.
Oh, I disagree. And I volunteer to write it. Sit this one out, Margalit Fox, I'll take the reins.
Isn’t it crazy that when you ask “Is he dead yet?” that everyone knows who you’re talking about?
Yep. The only reason I check my phone before I even get my coffee.
To “Sonny and me.” You wouldn’t say “To I HH was a childhood hero.” This misuse of I drives me nuts.
You and me both.
Make that three.