Dems need to stop taking the bait on immigration issues. That is the big losing issue for us. Let the fight be over Elon Musk, the environment, the economy, but stay away from immigration fights. Immigration almost certainly cost us the election in 2024 and it remains a bad topic for us.
First of all, this bum is not an American citizen. We foolishly allowed him to come into our country from a hostile one. Instead of thanking Allah six times a day for having the privilege of living in a free country, he bites the hand that feeds him by organizing chaos at Columbia University. After being picked by ICE in order to be sent back to where he came from, his sympathizers feel his rights have somehow been violated. He is not an American and should not expect to be treated like one. He is a trouble maker and gutter snipe. He should be afforded the same rights he will get when he returns home.
Today, I noticed a story about another green card holder, returning from Luxembourg, who was detained and very aggressively "interrogated" at Logan airport where he was asked to surrender his green card. What I also noticed was mention of "his partner." Was he a target because perhaps he is gay? We truly need to be paying close attention to the number of these incidents as they are occurring more frequently.
He isn’t gay, as his partner is female. This is actually a bit more complicated because he had a marijuana charge from when he used to live in California — I don’t remember the date now — and then missed responding to the court due to a letter being sent to the wrong address.
Still gratuitous and cruel, but there is more to that story. If you are a green card holder I would make sure you have everything absolutely correct and up to date, as any little uncrossed ‘t’, and they will make your life hell.
My head is spinning after reading these (preponderantly) extremely intelligent comments, notwithstanding how diametrically opposed they are to each other. Maybe illustrating this Nietzsche observation? “And those who were seen dancing, were thought to be crazy, by those who could not hear the music.”
Choosing a repulsive target is one of THE classic methods for a nascent dictatorship to train the citizenry to accept suspending their rights with no objective legal justification. If the regime had any evidence of a crime meeting the requirements of the statute for canceling Khalil's Green Card and deporting him, they would have shown it already. He must be freed, because if the government isn't required to obey the law, then there's no law to protect anyone. Do you REALLY want your freedoms to depend the whims of Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and J. D. Vance?
I respectfully somewhat disagree in some respects (and I say this as someone who loathes Trump and his sycophants, including Rubio). Admittedly there is little established law in this area, but from everything I've read there is no requirement of proving a crime has been committed to invoke the relevant section of the US immigration laws to revoke Khalil's green card. See for example https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/131-five-questions-about-the-khalil. I agree the Trump Administration has been opaque in stating what Khalil exactly has done to establish that the relevant immigration statutes have beeen violated. I also agree that they are seeking to make a test case out of this (and at this point it's hard to know if they can win on the merits before a US immigration judge, a federal appeals court and SCOTUS). I would also prefer to see Khalil released with appropriate monitoring until his case is heard on the merits before a US immigration judge. I want Khalil's due process rights as a green card holder to be honored and I want an adjudication on the merits using the proper legal standard.
The Vladeck article is excellent, and I'm usually inclined toward his point of view anyway because he's a distinguished professor at my Alma Mater. I'll also confess that I haven't "done my own research" (as they say in MAGAland), but since my academic background is in diplomacy and foreign relations, I'll still hazard a defense of my point of view.
In general I think it important to accept that words have meanings, and in international relations even moreso. On those grounds, the reason given so far for revoking Khalil's Green Card, that Rubio certified that Khalil's continued presence "would compromise a compelling United States foreign policy interest" strikes me as absurd on its face. I can't imagine how this justification could stand up to any scrutiny, unless this pitiful terrorist fanboy has unreported influence with high officials either in our government, in the governments of our allies, or in the governments of our adversaries, and is a kind of Edward Snowden or an Elon Musk with a Green Card rather than a passport. It should be obvious that a person with no discernable influence on anyone cannot "compromise" any US foreign policy interest, much less a "compelling" one. I doubt that Rubio has the goods to back that up, but if he does, let him show them to a judge.
The second standard, that Khalil “endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization.” may be stickier, but as Professor Vladeck points out, the Administration hasn't offered that argument yet. Let's see whether they do, and whether they can back it up. If Khalil is more than just a terrorist admirer or wannabe, maybe Trump & Co. can make a case, but they haven't shown us anything more than suspicions and feelz yet.
At this point I agree it's all about the proof (if any) they can show to support their allegations. This could be a real edge case: for example, if it can be established that Khalil was in a leadership position at CUAD (and was not just a "negotiator") and had a role in pro-Hamas statements or the distribution in some of the vile pro-Hamas literature allegedly distributed at Barnard praising Sinwar and Oct. 7, it might meet the definitions you cite in US immigration law. We'll see.
We would do a whole lot better focusing on the kid with brain cancer instead of this guy. Here’s the thing, the Gov may not have gone about this in the right way, but I don’t doubt they can deport him. He was the spokesperson for CUAD. Even a green card holder can be deported if he is a “representative of a political, social, or other group” that “endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist group.” That’s it. The grounds are there. It has nothing to do with free speech. It doesn’t require a conviction. The activity does not have to rise to “material support.” Also, consider this - one reason why this language is even applicable at all is the rhetoric of the “Free Palestine” movement is so extreme - unabashedly supporting armed struggle, cheering violent action, wishing victory to Hamas: “Al-Qassam, make us proud, kill another soldier now!,” “There is only ONE solution, Intifada, revolution!” that the “endorsing or espousing terrorist activity” language fits. They ARE unapologetically endorsing terrorist activity, and this is before you even get to their actions: Breaking into and taking over buildings, preventing a maintenance worker from leaving and assault; surrounding fellow students and harassing and menacing them, accosting them in classrooms, etc. The problem is that the admin didn’t cite this “endorses or espouses” ground in the NTA (immigration court charging document) but the ground about the Secretary having authority to deport if he has “reasonable grounds” to believe his “presence would have particularly adverse foreign policy consequences.” So I don’t know if they’ve thought this through, or actually dotted their is and crossed their Ts and did the necessary investigation on this guy to be able to tell he rises to that level. Perhaps they just thought he was on a student visa still, and acted with little thought, as they are wont to do. (However, I am absolutely sure if they scratch the surface on this 31 yo former UNRWA worker who’s only been here since 2022, spent seemingly most of his time organizing for CUAD, adjusted status at lightning speed and had a lawyer on speed dial when he was arrested that they would find a gold mine). Hamas told the hostages it had people on the campuses. Follow the money. But perhaps they will amend and cite this seemingly easier ground to deport him. Or Perhaps they will lose b/c they haven’t thought it through. Either way, making THIS guy the poster child for all our activism - making him into a folk hero, is just so, so bad for the Democrats. Hamas killed 43 Americans on 10/7. One American - a 21 yo - is still in the tunnels. Every time the Ds say this guy’s name reverently and fail to say Edan Alexander’s name they just piss me off further.
I'm not sure which of these explanations for the Trump Administration's detention of Khalil is most accurate, but either one and the subsequent effects are horrible for the country.
A) They know *exactly* what they're doing (or at least think they do), they're being very explicit, and deliberately as provocative & divisive as possible
OR
B) The arrest *began* as a deliberate & provocative exercise in right wing virtue signalling & red meat throwing . . . but, like what I believe is their overreach on DEI, they were not expecting a significant backlash and have no plan to salvage this, stake out a somewhat more sensible position, or maneuver closer to the center (that is, moderating a bit & trying to pick up independents & centrist Dems).
Yeah, both A & B are bad because a politically or ideologically motivated warrantless arrest is pretty frickin' horrible *AND* because the Left's over-the-top, vitriolic, response is going to radicalize our politics further, become as deliberately devise as possible, normalize anti-American/anti-Israel extremism, and--after putting the Democratic mainstream in a no-win situation--simply engender a doubling down reaction from MAGA.
A doubling down that will make Team Trump's anger over the 2020 protests & riots look like nothing.
Khalil was not "kidnapped." His detention does not prove correct any of the Far Left's predictable tropes about how evil this country is--especially since they believe that garbage regardless. Overall, Americans still support Israel because they recognize a democratic ally when they see one (like Ukraine), they know totalitarianism when they see it (whether it's red, black, or green), and--frankly--Jews were the most favorably viewed religious group in the country . . . at least up until relatively recently. Every group in a Pew survey rated Judaism more favorably than any other faith except their own. (And some respondents ranked Judaism actually above their own). Well, the only group that had a dim view of Jews was . . . Muslims.
The bizarre alliance between secular leftists & Islamism sympathizers may not play well in Peoria, IL but it doesn't have to. The "Campus Left", as part of a wider galvanized Far Left, has outsize influence in the Democratic Party.
Deliberately or not, Trump has unleashed a cycle of rhetorical and literal violence between Far Left & Far Right that will simply push out a lot of otherwise sensible voices & perspectives. Buckle up.
The difference here between Trump and Putin is that Putin would have him killed. Surreptitiously. A lot of people who don’t like Trump have spoken out. I feel for the Palestinian people. They have been caught in Israel’s (Netanyahu) juggernaut and tens of thousands killed and now being left without humanitarian aid. You can have sympathy for the Palestinians without supporting Hamas, an Iranian proxy and terrorist organization. The man who complained about the weaponizing of the Justice Department is doing that openly and without the kind of evidence found in his indictments.
THE DETENTION OF SYRIAN-BORN PALESTINIAN ACTIVIST Mahmoud Khalil is not going to galvanize anyone but the most gullible suckers who are unable to think for themselves and don't have the information even if they could think.
I detest Trump and his toady Marco Rubio, but Rubia was right today when he said if Mahmoud Khalil was truthful when he decided to enter our country and told interviewers that he was a Palestinian supporter, he would have never been in the country at all.
What Democrats are being tricked into doing by ???? someone ??? is to say that Democrats support bringing supporters of terrorism into the country. Can you think of anything more thoughtless and wrong?
Democrats always get tricked by the liars in their midst who trick them into shooting themselves in the foot. It ends up dividing the party and looking like morons to independents.
The end result is to divide the Left and reducing voter turnout and argument.
If there is a need to fear or deal with any of those Palestinian Supporters, and you know as well as I this guy was not a simple Palestinian supporter, he was an active agent of Hamas, a terrorist group, in this country. If you are going to stake your life on something, or tell others too, you should think a bit more deeply about it.
Khalil has not been proven to be an active Hamas agent and you know that. He has not been charged with that crime and you know that. I am not the one who isn’t thinking deeply here.
And in any case, even if Khalil WERE an active Hamas agent, it still does not justify warrantless searches and arrests without probable cause. Probable cause is not a high standard to exceed and ICE didn’t even have that, which is proof that your comment is totally bullshit.
> Khalil has not been proven to be an active Hamas agent
What do you care - it makes no difference to you because you work to keep America unbalances and divided with your lies and nonsense.
Warrantless searches are admissible as evidence in many cases. You don't know any specifics, you are grasping at straws to defend your fellow terrorist.
Maybe they will get to you next, and that is what you're
Again what evidence do you have for what you have are stating. Please provide evidence of where Mr. Khalil lied about himself when coming into the US and provide evidence with sources as to him being an ‘active agent of Hamas’. So far you have provided no proof of anything only widely defamatory accusations.
If you want people to ‘think deeply about thing’ then I suggest you do a better job of providing actual evidence and sources for what you are saying.
When someone demands evidence for the manifestly clear, you have to assume their insincerity. Their intent is not inquiry but obstruction through a performance of doubt. No amount of proof will satisfy those already convinced or committed to feigned skepticism.
Except there are statements Mr. Khalil has made and they are available. That is what I am basing by assessment off of. I am not going to go down some conspiracy theory rabbit hole of non-evidence which you are promoting.
You don’t help yourself by calling me a whiny little bitch and then spelling ‘bitch’ wrong.
> conspiracy theory rabbit hole of non-evidence which you are promoting.
So, you are promoting the idea that Khalil did not lie to get into the country, and that he did nothing to promote Hamas and intimidate Jewish students, just because you also promote the Hamas point of view and will do anything to make it look innocuous like any other free speech issue. It is not.
The fact that you lie and said I misspelled "bitch" because I typoed a "j" on to the end of bitch doesn't really support your argument, and that fact that you tried to make a big deal about it makes you look desperate for a retortj. Get it?
There is a difference here that you should acknowledge.
In Argentina the citizens that were disappeared were totally innoccent Argentinian citizens, not foreigner supporters of the worst kind of terrorism in history.
The fact is, is that if Mahmoud Khalil had honestly answered his application to come to this country and admitted to being a supporter of the international terrorist group Hamas - he would have never been allowed into the country to begin with.
Hamas is awful but it is nowhere nearly the worst terrorism we have seen in the world recently. That dubious honor goes to the buddy of our President, Vladimir Putin.
Again, I'd have to disagree with you. Putin has a motive for his actions in Ukraine and elsewhere. We, the US, have been saying we want to take over Russia and kill him, and we provoked Ukraine to go to war with Russia over Crimea, which really does belong to Russia and is important to Russia. Hamas just wants to kill Jews and destroy Israel because of their insane religion and culture. There is not really a good parallel there. Putin is a rational actor acting for his country and people .... Sinwar deliberately put his own country in the line of fire to be destroyed in hopes of provoking a worldwide Jihad.
Putin did have a motive for Ukraine — genocide. You are okay with that. The US does not want to take over Russia, that is an actual lie. Ukraine did not go to war with Russia, Russia started an unprovoked war with Ukraine. That is lie #2. Crimea didn’t belong to Russia. That is lie #3. The parallel is between Hamas and Russia. Hamas wants genocide against Jews and Russia wants genocide against Ukrainians. You don’t seem to want to first but are totally supportive of the second. Hitler was also a rational actor for his country and people and your defense of Putin is Goebbels-worthy.
Except that Khalil very decidedly did NOT "disappear", nor is he likely to. Trump's very bad, but not yet as bad as he can get, so let's keep our hysteria under control.
No matter what I read or where I am, one main through point is that Americans take our democracy for granted. That democracy put a bubble around all of us - thicker for those in the majority and thinner as we reach women, people of color and immigrants.
An example is the horror that Mahmoud Khalil was detained illegally. Is this horrific? Most definitely. That said trump and his Nazi crew hate people of color. They articulated it in the trump 1.0, said it over and over again at rallies, so at this point, I look at Americans.
His arrest and detainment is horrific and illegal but can't be unexpected.
Hegseth is in place to unleash the military on the US population. What do people think that means? trump supporters "hate the libs." If they weren't being affected by the job losses and crazy stock market and tariffs, they'd be rooting for trump to take down anyone in blue states.
The reactions and protests I see are not where they need to be to ward off the insanity that I know is coming. We have feckless Democrats voting with Republicans as if this is business as usual. I'm in Indivisible at the local level and it's passable but won't blunt what's happened and what will happen.
I believed that we'd never have elections again. As time goes on that becomes more and more realistic.
> An example is the horror that Mahmoud Khalil was detained illegally.
Oh, give me a *#$&*^$ing break. The fact is, is that if Mahmoud Khalil had honestly answered his application to come to this country and admitted to being a supporter of the international terrorist group Hamas - he would have never been allowed into the country to begin with.
Totally irrelevant. ICE illegally entered private property and made an illegal arrest. You are okay with that. You should fear that much more than you fear a terrorist group that does not operate in the US.
Al Qaeda didn't use camels, they used airplanes -- after a truck bomb didn't accomplish their goals. And Trump surrendered Afghanistan to them. Hamas does not operate in the US. YOU are the one with bad arguments.
I’m wondering how many people who voted for Trump or decided not to vote largely because of Biden‘s response to October 7 and support for Israel now realize the error of their ways.
Israel and Trump are unrelated. Trump uses Israel to manipulate Jewish voters, as AOC, et all, use their disgusting sympathy for Hamas to cater to Muslims in Michigan and the US.
Your comment is a dog-whistle to anti-semites everywhere.
Trump has nothing to do with Israel other than to help an American ally who is infinitely closer to our democratic beliefs and Western way of life than any of the inhuman tyrannical, Islamo-fascist societies in the Middle East.
But I have to wonder if you will eer acknowledge the error of your ways. Look to the sins in your own life before you go attacking others.
You make a much greater error by excusing blatantly illegal acts by a rogue law enforcement agency. And support for that totalitarian adjacent activity in the name of opposing anti-Israel terrorism contributes to hatred of Israel and anti-Semitism in general.
> blatantly illegal acts by a rogue law enforcement agency.
You don't get to pass judgement on law enforcement simply because you don't like the result.
The man was a foreign supporter of terrorism who gained entry to this country under false pretenses and then acted in support of a foreign terrorist group.
It isn’t admirable, particularly if he entered the US under false pretenses, which has definitely not been proven. But you are supporting something far Far FAR more dangerous to the US than one single person — law enforcement agencies that totally ignore statutory law and the Constitution. You are such a supporter of this totalitarianism that even deny that they are ignoring it. You would have felt right at home in Italy in 1926.
Sorry but warrantless searches and arrests without probable cause aren't not liking the result, they are violations of basic rights enshrined in the US Constitution, which you don't seem to have read.
Please provide evidence and sources for your claims about Mr. Khalil. The government has only said his views ‘align’ with Hamas, whatever that means. The only thing that I can find is his support for Palestinian self determination. But then Israel and its American allies have long been trying to criminalize that sort of speech.
When someone demands evidence for the manifestly clear, you have to assume their insincerity. Their intent is not inquiry but obstruction through a performance of doubt. No amount of proof will satisfy those already convinced or committed to feigned skepticism.
Again please provide evidence. A number of Israeli politicians have been urging genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza. I don’t hear you calling them out.
We already have Elon Musk who is clearly dabbling in Nazism, or at least pushing the edge as far as he can. He’s abhorrent, but his speech is protected as well.
people who participate in these open online discussions should only do so if they have some kind of point, not just to expound on their fantastical fears and paranoia. It's just ugly name calling but not even in service of any logical poliitcal stand.
Dems need to stop taking the bait on immigration issues. That is the big losing issue for us. Let the fight be over Elon Musk, the environment, the economy, but stay away from immigration fights. Immigration almost certainly cost us the election in 2024 and it remains a bad topic for us.
This from Politico today---Link: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/03/15/mahmoud-khalil-antisemitism-columbia-00232032
There is always an asterisk when it comes to Jews. The comments here are despicable.
Curious, how would the action against Khalil be taken if Trump was hyperaggressive against Jew-hatred, but otherwise normal?
First of all, this bum is not an American citizen. We foolishly allowed him to come into our country from a hostile one. Instead of thanking Allah six times a day for having the privilege of living in a free country, he bites the hand that feeds him by organizing chaos at Columbia University. After being picked by ICE in order to be sent back to where he came from, his sympathizers feel his rights have somehow been violated. He is not an American and should not expect to be treated like one. He is a trouble maker and gutter snipe. He should be afforded the same rights he will get when he returns home.
Today, I noticed a story about another green card holder, returning from Luxembourg, who was detained and very aggressively "interrogated" at Logan airport where he was asked to surrender his green card. What I also noticed was mention of "his partner." Was he a target because perhaps he is gay? We truly need to be paying close attention to the number of these incidents as they are occurring more frequently.
Here is the full story as reported by GBH News :
https://www.wgbh.org/news/local/2025-03-14/green-card-holder-from-new-hampshire-interrogated-at-logan-airport-detained?utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwY2xjawJCw1lleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHdx0e3CnOyaB-EU_Y-HD0ELy3pz3bprNnX5FHXIrhIBJ4Wte-Zrje6vwbQ_aem_zgNOIuPDo9VXUigq4i91Pg
He isn’t gay, as his partner is female. This is actually a bit more complicated because he had a marijuana charge from when he used to live in California — I don’t remember the date now — and then missed responding to the court due to a letter being sent to the wrong address.
Still gratuitous and cruel, but there is more to that story. If you are a green card holder I would make sure you have everything absolutely correct and up to date, as any little uncrossed ‘t’, and they will make your life hell.
My head is spinning after reading these (preponderantly) extremely intelligent comments, notwithstanding how diametrically opposed they are to each other. Maybe illustrating this Nietzsche observation? “And those who were seen dancing, were thought to be crazy, by those who could not hear the music.”
Choosing a repulsive target is one of THE classic methods for a nascent dictatorship to train the citizenry to accept suspending their rights with no objective legal justification. If the regime had any evidence of a crime meeting the requirements of the statute for canceling Khalil's Green Card and deporting him, they would have shown it already. He must be freed, because if the government isn't required to obey the law, then there's no law to protect anyone. Do you REALLY want your freedoms to depend the whims of Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and J. D. Vance?
I respectfully somewhat disagree in some respects (and I say this as someone who loathes Trump and his sycophants, including Rubio). Admittedly there is little established law in this area, but from everything I've read there is no requirement of proving a crime has been committed to invoke the relevant section of the US immigration laws to revoke Khalil's green card. See for example https://www.stevevladeck.com/p/131-five-questions-about-the-khalil. I agree the Trump Administration has been opaque in stating what Khalil exactly has done to establish that the relevant immigration statutes have beeen violated. I also agree that they are seeking to make a test case out of this (and at this point it's hard to know if they can win on the merits before a US immigration judge, a federal appeals court and SCOTUS). I would also prefer to see Khalil released with appropriate monitoring until his case is heard on the merits before a US immigration judge. I want Khalil's due process rights as a green card holder to be honored and I want an adjudication on the merits using the proper legal standard.
The Vladeck article is excellent, and I'm usually inclined toward his point of view anyway because he's a distinguished professor at my Alma Mater. I'll also confess that I haven't "done my own research" (as they say in MAGAland), but since my academic background is in diplomacy and foreign relations, I'll still hazard a defense of my point of view.
In general I think it important to accept that words have meanings, and in international relations even moreso. On those grounds, the reason given so far for revoking Khalil's Green Card, that Rubio certified that Khalil's continued presence "would compromise a compelling United States foreign policy interest" strikes me as absurd on its face. I can't imagine how this justification could stand up to any scrutiny, unless this pitiful terrorist fanboy has unreported influence with high officials either in our government, in the governments of our allies, or in the governments of our adversaries, and is a kind of Edward Snowden or an Elon Musk with a Green Card rather than a passport. It should be obvious that a person with no discernable influence on anyone cannot "compromise" any US foreign policy interest, much less a "compelling" one. I doubt that Rubio has the goods to back that up, but if he does, let him show them to a judge.
The second standard, that Khalil “endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization.” may be stickier, but as Professor Vladeck points out, the Administration hasn't offered that argument yet. Let's see whether they do, and whether they can back it up. If Khalil is more than just a terrorist admirer or wannabe, maybe Trump & Co. can make a case, but they haven't shown us anything more than suspicions and feelz yet.
At this point I agree it's all about the proof (if any) they can show to support their allegations. This could be a real edge case: for example, if it can be established that Khalil was in a leadership position at CUAD (and was not just a "negotiator") and had a role in pro-Hamas statements or the distribution in some of the vile pro-Hamas literature allegedly distributed at Barnard praising Sinwar and Oct. 7, it might meet the definitions you cite in US immigration law. We'll see.
We would do a whole lot better focusing on the kid with brain cancer instead of this guy. Here’s the thing, the Gov may not have gone about this in the right way, but I don’t doubt they can deport him. He was the spokesperson for CUAD. Even a green card holder can be deported if he is a “representative of a political, social, or other group” that “endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist group.” That’s it. The grounds are there. It has nothing to do with free speech. It doesn’t require a conviction. The activity does not have to rise to “material support.” Also, consider this - one reason why this language is even applicable at all is the rhetoric of the “Free Palestine” movement is so extreme - unabashedly supporting armed struggle, cheering violent action, wishing victory to Hamas: “Al-Qassam, make us proud, kill another soldier now!,” “There is only ONE solution, Intifada, revolution!” that the “endorsing or espousing terrorist activity” language fits. They ARE unapologetically endorsing terrorist activity, and this is before you even get to their actions: Breaking into and taking over buildings, preventing a maintenance worker from leaving and assault; surrounding fellow students and harassing and menacing them, accosting them in classrooms, etc. The problem is that the admin didn’t cite this “endorses or espouses” ground in the NTA (immigration court charging document) but the ground about the Secretary having authority to deport if he has “reasonable grounds” to believe his “presence would have particularly adverse foreign policy consequences.” So I don’t know if they’ve thought this through, or actually dotted their is and crossed their Ts and did the necessary investigation on this guy to be able to tell he rises to that level. Perhaps they just thought he was on a student visa still, and acted with little thought, as they are wont to do. (However, I am absolutely sure if they scratch the surface on this 31 yo former UNRWA worker who’s only been here since 2022, spent seemingly most of his time organizing for CUAD, adjusted status at lightning speed and had a lawyer on speed dial when he was arrested that they would find a gold mine). Hamas told the hostages it had people on the campuses. Follow the money. But perhaps they will amend and cite this seemingly easier ground to deport him. Or Perhaps they will lose b/c they haven’t thought it through. Either way, making THIS guy the poster child for all our activism - making him into a folk hero, is just so, so bad for the Democrats. Hamas killed 43 Americans on 10/7. One American - a 21 yo - is still in the tunnels. Every time the Ds say this guy’s name reverently and fail to say Edan Alexander’s name they just piss me off further.
I'm not sure which of these explanations for the Trump Administration's detention of Khalil is most accurate, but either one and the subsequent effects are horrible for the country.
A) They know *exactly* what they're doing (or at least think they do), they're being very explicit, and deliberately as provocative & divisive as possible
OR
B) The arrest *began* as a deliberate & provocative exercise in right wing virtue signalling & red meat throwing . . . but, like what I believe is their overreach on DEI, they were not expecting a significant backlash and have no plan to salvage this, stake out a somewhat more sensible position, or maneuver closer to the center (that is, moderating a bit & trying to pick up independents & centrist Dems).
Yeah, both A & B are bad because a politically or ideologically motivated warrantless arrest is pretty frickin' horrible *AND* because the Left's over-the-top, vitriolic, response is going to radicalize our politics further, become as deliberately devise as possible, normalize anti-American/anti-Israel extremism, and--after putting the Democratic mainstream in a no-win situation--simply engender a doubling down reaction from MAGA.
A doubling down that will make Team Trump's anger over the 2020 protests & riots look like nothing.
Khalil was not "kidnapped." His detention does not prove correct any of the Far Left's predictable tropes about how evil this country is--especially since they believe that garbage regardless. Overall, Americans still support Israel because they recognize a democratic ally when they see one (like Ukraine), they know totalitarianism when they see it (whether it's red, black, or green), and--frankly--Jews were the most favorably viewed religious group in the country . . . at least up until relatively recently. Every group in a Pew survey rated Judaism more favorably than any other faith except their own. (And some respondents ranked Judaism actually above their own). Well, the only group that had a dim view of Jews was . . . Muslims.
The bizarre alliance between secular leftists & Islamism sympathizers may not play well in Peoria, IL but it doesn't have to. The "Campus Left", as part of a wider galvanized Far Left, has outsize influence in the Democratic Party.
Deliberately or not, Trump has unleashed a cycle of rhetorical and literal violence between Far Left & Far Right that will simply push out a lot of otherwise sensible voices & perspectives. Buckle up.
"Modern bourgeois (capitalist) society treats gold as its Holy Grail, as the glittering incarnation of its innermost principle of life"
- Karl Marx
The difference here between Trump and Putin is that Putin would have him killed. Surreptitiously. A lot of people who don’t like Trump have spoken out. I feel for the Palestinian people. They have been caught in Israel’s (Netanyahu) juggernaut and tens of thousands killed and now being left without humanitarian aid. You can have sympathy for the Palestinians without supporting Hamas, an Iranian proxy and terrorist organization. The man who complained about the weaponizing of the Justice Department is doing that openly and without the kind of evidence found in his indictments.
THE DETENTION OF SYRIAN-BORN PALESTINIAN ACTIVIST Mahmoud Khalil is not going to galvanize anyone but the most gullible suckers who are unable to think for themselves and don't have the information even if they could think.
I detest Trump and his toady Marco Rubio, but Rubia was right today when he said if Mahmoud Khalil was truthful when he decided to enter our country and told interviewers that he was a Palestinian supporter, he would have never been in the country at all.
What Democrats are being tricked into doing by ???? someone ??? is to say that Democrats support bringing supporters of terrorism into the country. Can you think of anything more thoughtless and wrong?
Democrats always get tricked by the liars in their midst who trick them into shooting themselves in the foot. It ends up dividing the party and looking like morons to independents.
The end result is to divide the Left and reducing voter turnout and argument.
There are thousands of Palestinian supporters legally here in the US who were not born here.
If you don't support civil rights for people like Khalil who are basically Nazis, you don't support them for anyone. This is a hill to die on.
If there is a need to fear or deal with any of those Palestinian Supporters, and you know as well as I this guy was not a simple Palestinian supporter, he was an active agent of Hamas, a terrorist group, in this country. If you are going to stake your life on something, or tell others too, you should think a bit more deeply about it.
Khalil has not been proven to be an active Hamas agent and you know that. He has not been charged with that crime and you know that. I am not the one who isn’t thinking deeply here.
And in any case, even if Khalil WERE an active Hamas agent, it still does not justify warrantless searches and arrests without probable cause. Probable cause is not a high standard to exceed and ICE didn’t even have that, which is proof that your comment is totally bullshit.
> Khalil has not been proven to be an active Hamas agent
What do you care - it makes no difference to you because you work to keep America unbalances and divided with your lies and nonsense.
Warrantless searches are admissible as evidence in many cases. You don't know any specifics, you are grasping at straws to defend your fellow terrorist.
Maybe they will get to you next, and that is what you're
worried about most.
Hi Bruce,
Again what evidence do you have for what you have are stating. Please provide evidence of where Mr. Khalil lied about himself when coming into the US and provide evidence with sources as to him being an ‘active agent of Hamas’. So far you have provided no proof of anything only widely defamatory accusations.
If you want people to ‘think deeply about thing’ then I suggest you do a better job of providing actual evidence and sources for what you are saying.
When someone demands evidence for the manifestly clear, you have to assume their insincerity. Their intent is not inquiry but obstruction through a performance of doubt. No amount of proof will satisfy those already convinced or committed to feigned skepticism.
--Hussein Aboubakr Mansour
Except there are statements Mr. Khalil has made and they are available. That is what I am basing by assessment off of. I am not going to go down some conspiracy theory rabbit hole of non-evidence which you are promoting.
You don’t help yourself by calling me a whiny little bitch and then spelling ‘bitch’ wrong.
> conspiracy theory rabbit hole of non-evidence which you are promoting.
So, you are promoting the idea that Khalil did not lie to get into the country, and that he did nothing to promote Hamas and intimidate Jewish students, just because you also promote the Hamas point of view and will do anything to make it look innocuous like any other free speech issue. It is not.
The fact that you lie and said I misspelled "bitch" because I typoed a "j" on to the end of bitch doesn't really support your argument, and that fact that you tried to make a big deal about it makes you look desperate for a retortj. Get it?
In Argentina the government "disappeared" 40,000 CITIZENS. The Khalil arrest is only a start.
He is being held in Louisiana and has had at least one court appearance. He is not "disappeared.
There is a difference here that you should acknowledge.
In Argentina the citizens that were disappeared were totally innoccent Argentinian citizens, not foreigner supporters of the worst kind of terrorism in history.
The fact is, is that if Mahmoud Khalil had honestly answered his application to come to this country and admitted to being a supporter of the international terrorist group Hamas - he would have never been allowed into the country to begin with.
Truly I exaggerated in my example. I think it was the gummies. Still, Orange and Elonia have to start somewhere.
Hamas is awful but it is nowhere nearly the worst terrorism we have seen in the world recently. That dubious honor goes to the buddy of our President, Vladimir Putin.
Again, I'd have to disagree with you. Putin has a motive for his actions in Ukraine and elsewhere. We, the US, have been saying we want to take over Russia and kill him, and we provoked Ukraine to go to war with Russia over Crimea, which really does belong to Russia and is important to Russia. Hamas just wants to kill Jews and destroy Israel because of their insane religion and culture. There is not really a good parallel there. Putin is a rational actor acting for his country and people .... Sinwar deliberately put his own country in the line of fire to be destroyed in hopes of provoking a worldwide Jihad.
Putin did have a motive for Ukraine — genocide. You are okay with that. The US does not want to take over Russia, that is an actual lie. Ukraine did not go to war with Russia, Russia started an unprovoked war with Ukraine. That is lie #2. Crimea didn’t belong to Russia. That is lie #3. The parallel is between Hamas and Russia. Hamas wants genocide against Jews and Russia wants genocide against Ukrainians. You don’t seem to want to first but are totally supportive of the second. Hitler was also a rational actor for his country and people and your defense of Putin is Goebbels-worthy.
How is the weather in Moscow right now?
> How is the weather in Moscow right now?
A very popular stupid troll reply without content.
The fact is that Ukraine did have and has Nationalists
groups that ally with Stepan Banderas and the Neo-
Nazis that work with violence outside the system to
discriminage against Russians and or course Jews.
There are videos of the former Ukraine President
Poroshenko talking about forcing those of Russian
descent out of the Ukrainian society/system,
saying specifically that Russians will be covering in
their basements getting shelled not going to school while Ukrainian children walk above in the sunlight.
Crimea was incorporated into Russia in the 1600s.
It never belonged to Ukraine except when Kruchev transferred the administration of Crimea to Ukraine
in the 1950s.
I'm not in Moscow, I'm in Silicon Valley, CA, but you
know you can lie and call names from anywhere.
Except that Khalil very decidedly did NOT "disappear", nor is he likely to. Trump's very bad, but not yet as bad as he can get, so let's keep our hysteria under control.
Yep
THIS 100%
No matter what I read or where I am, one main through point is that Americans take our democracy for granted. That democracy put a bubble around all of us - thicker for those in the majority and thinner as we reach women, people of color and immigrants.
An example is the horror that Mahmoud Khalil was detained illegally. Is this horrific? Most definitely. That said trump and his Nazi crew hate people of color. They articulated it in the trump 1.0, said it over and over again at rallies, so at this point, I look at Americans.
His arrest and detainment is horrific and illegal but can't be unexpected.
Hegseth is in place to unleash the military on the US population. What do people think that means? trump supporters "hate the libs." If they weren't being affected by the job losses and crazy stock market and tariffs, they'd be rooting for trump to take down anyone in blue states.
The reactions and protests I see are not where they need to be to ward off the insanity that I know is coming. We have feckless Democrats voting with Republicans as if this is business as usual. I'm in Indivisible at the local level and it's passable but won't blunt what's happened and what will happen.
I believed that we'd never have elections again. As time goes on that becomes more and more realistic.
> An example is the horror that Mahmoud Khalil was detained illegally.
Oh, give me a *#$&*^$ing break. The fact is, is that if Mahmoud Khalil had honestly answered his application to come to this country and admitted to being a supporter of the international terrorist group Hamas - he would have never been allowed into the country to begin with.
Totally irrelevant. ICE illegally entered private property and made an illegal arrest. You are okay with that. You should fear that much more than you fear a terrorist group that does not operate in the US.
> You should fear that much more than you fear a terrorist group that does not operate in the US.
Like Al Qaeda, right? Just f-ing camels and beating women and children in the deserts of Afghanistan ... nothing to fear there, huh?
Wake up .... analyze your own bad arguments.
Hamas does not operate in the US. Al Qaeda did. You are the one with the bad argument here!
That's just untrue and stupidly so.
There are people who support Hamas here,
and there are groups who pull people in from
the public to demonstrate over stuff they don't
even know. When reporters go into those crowds
the people questioned tell them to go talk to the
sponsors because it is clear they are not there
because they understand the issues.
When Hamas also gets money funnelled from
NGOs in the US who do you think that is?
Al Qaeda didn't use camels, they used airplanes -- after a truck bomb didn't accomplish their goals. And Trump surrendered Afghanistan to them. Hamas does not operate in the US. YOU are the one with bad arguments.
All of those are irrelevant and emotional nonsense arguments. Hamas clearly operates in the US.
Exactly.
He is cherry picking to make a false declaration.
My point is this illegality shouldn't be a surprise.
Mahmoud' ls ethnicity alone gave ICE the excuse they were looking for.
And what cherry am I picking? Even if better to pick actual cherries than to make up reasons to cower in fear.
ICE detained him illegally. Period.
We will see. I detest Trump & Musk and the rest, but there is no sense in making a big scene over something that is essentially the right thing to do.
I’m wondering how many people who voted for Trump or decided not to vote largely because of Biden‘s response to October 7 and support for Israel now realize the error of their ways.
Israel and Trump are unrelated. Trump uses Israel to manipulate Jewish voters, as AOC, et all, use their disgusting sympathy for Hamas to cater to Muslims in Michigan and the US.
Your comment is a dog-whistle to anti-semites everywhere.
Trump has nothing to do with Israel other than to help an American ally who is infinitely closer to our democratic beliefs and Western way of life than any of the inhuman tyrannical, Islamo-fascist societies in the Middle East.
But I have to wonder if you will eer acknowledge the error of your ways. Look to the sins in your own life before you go attacking others.
You make a much greater error by excusing blatantly illegal acts by a rogue law enforcement agency. And support for that totalitarian adjacent activity in the name of opposing anti-Israel terrorism contributes to hatred of Israel and anti-Semitism in general.
> blatantly illegal acts by a rogue law enforcement agency.
You don't get to pass judgement on law enforcement simply because you don't like the result.
The man was a foreign supporter of terrorism who gained entry to this country under false pretenses and then acted in support of a foreign terrorist group.
Why is it you think that is admirable?
It isn’t admirable, particularly if he entered the US under false pretenses, which has definitely not been proven. But you are supporting something far Far FAR more dangerous to the US than one single person — law enforcement agencies that totally ignore statutory law and the Constitution. You are such a supporter of this totalitarianism that even deny that they are ignoring it. You would have felt right at home in Italy in 1926.
That is a cheap-ass shot, and it is BS too.
You are so enthusiastic and vicious in your total BS
which only amounts to name-calling against someone
who is here at the Bulwark specifically because I am against Trump that I have to conclude you are a troll
with the purpose to chasing off moderate people who
refuse to follow the herd mindlessly as you seem to
wany and encourage non-thinkers who just repeat
the same stuff that undercuts moderates/Democrats.
Sorry but warrantless searches and arrests without probable cause aren't not liking the result, they are violations of basic rights enshrined in the US Constitution, which you don't seem to have read.
I don't agree that Khalil's arrest was unConstitutional.
Please provide evidence and sources for your claims about Mr. Khalil. The government has only said his views ‘align’ with Hamas, whatever that means. The only thing that I can find is his support for Palestinian self determination. But then Israel and its American allies have long been trying to criminalize that sort of speech.
From another substack article:
When someone demands evidence for the manifestly clear, you have to assume their insincerity. Their intent is not inquiry but obstruction through a performance of doubt. No amount of proof will satisfy those already convinced or committed to feigned skepticism.
> Israel and its American allies have long been trying to criminalize that sort of speech.
Speech supportive of hate and genocide. I think if this guy was a foreign born supporter of Nazism you would sympathize and side with him as well.
Again please provide evidence. A number of Israeli politicians have been urging genocide and ethnic cleansing in Gaza. I don’t hear you calling them out.
We already have Elon Musk who is clearly dabbling in Nazism, or at least pushing the edge as far as he can. He’s abhorrent, but his speech is protected as well.
Hardly any of them. It's depressing.
Those people are pretty pig-headed, so I’m sure they still blame Biden.
people who participate in these open online discussions should only do so if they have some kind of point, not just to expound on their fantastical fears and paranoia. It's just ugly name calling but not even in service of any logical poliitcal stand.