0:00
/
52:35
Transcript
0:04
SPEAKER 1
Merry Christmas, everyone. I'm JBL, here with my best friend, Sarah Longwell. It's the first time we've ever gotten to enjoy a Christmas Eve miracle together, isn't it?
0:17
SPEAKER 2
Is it? I mean, I feel like there's been times of jubilation. There's been times when bad things have happened to bad people. I feel like this is when Kevin McCarthy was going into his like 11th or 12th round of voting to become speaker. But like times 15. Like this is like 10x.
0:40
SPEAKER 1
Times a trillion.

The Breakup Edition: Elon x Trump

130
30
Error

Sarah and JVL chat about Elon dumping Donald in the most deliciously public way. They get into who’s actually winning, whether it’s all just a stunt, and if Democrats should use the chaos to their advantage.

Leave a comment

ICYMI JVL’s late-night Triad:

The Secret Podcast is exclusively for members of Bulwark+ featuring JVL and Sarah Longwell. To watch or listen to future episodes and join the conversation in the comments become a Bulwark+ member today.

Discussion about this video

User's avatar
GibsonGirl99's avatar

Leon Trotsky went to MEXICO.

Expand full comment
Joan Scott's avatar

Leon Trotsky went to MEXICO.

Expand full comment
Lisa's avatar

I love your analysis of this feud, however, the funniest thing I read about it came from comedian Josh Johnson who wrote, "The worst part of the breakup between Elon and Trump is Don Jr. not knowing who his daddy is anymore".

Expand full comment
MLeity's avatar

You don’t throw down the 3.5 year gauntlet when it could just as easily be “we are just .5 in.” You do that after he’s lost the midterms bask and has less than half a term left and you can throw your money behind a successor. Also, Trotsky went to Mexico.

Expand full comment
MLeity's avatar

You don’t throw down the 3.5 year gauntlet when it could just as easily be “we are just .5 in.” You do that after he’s lost the midterms bask and has less than half a term left and you can throw your money behind a successor.

Expand full comment
NLTownie's avatar

JVL talked over Sarah in five consecutive sentences. Finally, without missing a beat, Sarah forcefully said to JVL “Stop it!” He did for about the next 30 seconds and then off he went again, stomping on her point to make his own. This happens too often with both JVL and sometimes Tim. They tellingly don’t talk over guests very often, especially if the guests are male, but they sure do it in spades with Sarah.

I’ll bet they aren’t consciously aware of it. Yes, it’s passion for the topic and enthusiasm of the moment but it’s also a very old power trope that some men feel free to inflict on women, particularly in the media. It’s been happening since women fought their way into newsrooms more than half a century ago and it needs to stop. Sarah has the patience of a saint but this really shouldn’t be happening. It’s still sexist behaviour even if JVL and Tim aren’t doing it deliberately. It’s actually worse that they aren’t even aware that they do it.

The Bulwark is top-heavy with white guys who apparently don’t see that as a problem. Sarah shouldn’t have to be fighting to finish her sentences. It’s frustrating for listeners and it’s obviously bugging Sarah, as well. Stop it, indeed.

Expand full comment
rlritt's avatar

When I was 16 I had my 1st boyfriend. We didn't want our friends making fun of us so when showed we pretended to be in a big fight.

I think that's what Elin and Trump are doing. Meanwhile, what grift is going on in the background?

Expand full comment
Lynn Van Haren's avatar

How is it that this site never knows that I’m a subscriber & I have to sign in every day to make a comment? Seems like there should be a master list of subscribers. Anyway, as to tRump being in the Epstein files, , he most definitely is! I lived in NYC during the 80’s & early 90’s & the parties at Epstein’s mansion were well known. This was before the Me Too movement. Women were moving into traditionally male jobs & sexual assault was EVERYWHERE! I worked as a professional on Wall St & you couldn’t even share a cab uptown without a guy trying to make out with you or more. Trump is ALL OVER that list. They were best friends. Don’t be naive

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

JD Vance is in the unique position to resist calls from Trump to take sides. Trump can't fire him. And if he "allowed" Musk to line up support in the Senate to remove Trump, he could be President.

That's probably his only chance, because the American voters won't vote for another Republican President for a generation.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

There's no percentage for Democrats to try to make nice with Musk. He's an oligarch. It's off brand.

But as of today (Saturday), the Democrats have seized hold of the Epstein files charge, and they are pursuing it. They ought to "Republican" that issue for the next three plus years.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

JVL, it's like a court order. In their world, it doesn't count unless it's in writing.

Expand full comment
Buck Skillen's avatar

Love you guys!!!!

Expand full comment
Jane Nordli Jessep's avatar

Mike Johnson looks like the head wait staff. Can't you imagine him saying, "Hi, my name is Mike and I'll be your server!"

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

He was part of the insurrection (according to Liz Cheney), so he isn't legally qualified for office.

But, yeah, he's not qualified to be in government, so perhaps he could be wait staff.

Expand full comment
Sylvia Street's avatar

Trotsky: Mexico City

Expand full comment
Jordan Shafer's avatar

What Musk didn't do was accuse trump of being senile or demented. Musk should know if this is true because he's been with him in person enough to see it in real. time. So, maybe trump isn't showing severe signs of dementia that even a lay person, ketamine user doesn't see, or Musk knows that would be going too far and would damage trump/maga beyond repair.

Expand full comment
Monica in SoCal's avatar

I watched this live last night but had to watch it again to get my Rebecca. No regrets.

Expand full comment
Anne H Ridley's avatar

I also watched live but I had to watch the end again so I could get my Rebecca.

Expand full comment
Clemson Cheryl's avatar

It's going to be fascinating to see if the richest man in the world has enough money to protect himself from the most malignant, infantile, yet most powerful person in the world. Our embarrassing leader has the full strength of the DOJ at his disposal. I would say that Elon is at a disadvantage, but I hope he takes the creature down with him.

Expand full comment
John H's avatar

to digress, re: Bannon isn't calling for the jailing of political opponents one of the mainstays and calling cards of being a actual fascist?

Expand full comment
Sheila Webb's avatar

Trotsky was in Mexico

Expand full comment
Liz's avatar
Jun 7Edited

I will say this in every Elon thread: Trump is going to take Elon’s shit. Elon can’t take the ball home; Trump will confiscate or nationalize it. Sarah needs to think bigger on what Trump can do. I don’t mean to be all polisci 101, but only one of these men has the monopoly on violence.

Step 1: Elon cancels his contracts (assuming he has unilateral termination rights or just thinks it’s an efficient breach and there’s no board issue with it.)

Step 2: Trump says “Cool” and takes that stuff on the basis of public use justifications and pays him some sense of FMV, if that. That’s the nice version.

It goes to the courts and, honestly, I think Trump loses given the court makeup and IJ, Federalist society, Lochner vibes of the majority. But it sucks for Musk who needs to spend the money and is further vulnerable to the extent it harms his shareholders.

And yes, data is important and it’s bad that Elon had access, but it’s not perpetual access. LLMs become useless when their training materials go stale, and so does competitive information — especially if Elon’s competitors slide into the government contracting side.

Expand full comment
GA Westover's avatar

And the next one was even more nuts. Pam Bondi saying Garcia A was involved in human trafficking. The guy she trafficked or her boss did.

Expand full comment
GA Westover's avatar

Sitting in a restaurant in Southern Oregon and they have legacy media ABC on the bar screen. Thank God it’s muted. All obsessed with the divorce. Trumps quite every couple of seconds flashes. “Elon has lost his mind”. No Shit Genius. Been saying that for months. And Trump calling someone nuts is pretty funny.

Expand full comment
Q.B. Bingham's avatar

The Elon x Trump Yaoi idea sounds like a Mistake...

Expand full comment
Beth Fisher's avatar

This was an incredibly delicious secret pod.

Expand full comment
Greg Jankowski's avatar

tariff ketamine executive order coming

Expand full comment
Susan A. Watson's avatar

Elon was enraged to discover he didn't own all presidential decisions affecting his business just as Trump was enraged to discover that he didn't own all SCOTUS decisions affecting him.

Expand full comment
Michael Ferguson's avatar

The fight is fun, but be cool everyone.

Instead of Bulwark Prime, my money is going to PBS, NPR, local food bank, Heifer International, etc. Sorry JVL.

Expand full comment
Nancy Marzano's avatar

Love how JVL doesn't hold back anymore - sounds like me now! :-)

Expand full comment
Barry's avatar

Someone has to get to these guys and continue to incite and enrage

Expand full comment
Incredimella's avatar

JVL when you say SpaceX needs to be nationalized — how would that work? Do US taxpayers all pay Elon pots of money to buy it off of him at the current inflated prices? Why not just taper off contracts instead?

Expand full comment
tim steckline's avatar

Trotsky ran away to hide in Mexico City. He was murdered by (communist?, it's assumed) agents carrying geological hammers under long rubber raincoats. Lesson: never trust guys wearing long black rubber coats in 100-degree heat.

Expand full comment
Kim M Murphy's avatar

My money’s on Musk, who has youth and so many billions of dollars that losing 100B here and there might only make him the second richest guy in the world.

And he has Twitter. Nobody tweets more than Elmo. He can move the mob.

Expand full comment
Craig J's avatar

This should be a cautionary tale to everyone who thinks bending knee to glorious leader in supplication is just as easy as trying to do business under rules and laws. Trump with always demand more and being in good graces today doesn't mean you won't be out tomorrow.

Expand full comment
Greg WF's avatar

Or if this goes full authoritarian dystopia, ya go out a 10 story window, or get some Polonium with your coffee, or get riddled by bullets in a mass grave.

I know everybody, that can’t happen here. We have the impervious “American exceptionalism” armor to protect us.

Expand full comment
Binky's avatar

Matt Dowd described this dust up as Alien vs Predator. What a perfect description of each of them; the alien and the predator.

Expand full comment
Susan Russell's avatar

Correct on jd vance, Sarah.

Expand full comment
Leslie Remer's avatar

I’m not too into conspiracy theories, but is it possible that Epstein was a Russian asset?

Expand full comment
Susan Russell's avatar

You've got a better shot at a handshake deal with a junkie than with a psychopath like trump, who always lies and who will change any part of any agreement to come out on top in the end, and if you don't like it, you can fuck off.

Expand full comment
dean apostol's avatar

I think we're missing the point. This started when Musk came out against the budget bill. And not just mildly. Gloves off. He ridiculed it, and those who voted for it. This is the angle Democrats and Trump's other opposition need to focus on and use. If we can exploit this rift to help kill that bill, it leaves Trump standing there naked. Big defeat. And he HAS to get a budget passed, so that means coming to Democrats for their votes. That gives Dems leverage to start mitigating some of the really bad shit in the budget. Medicaid protected. Energy subsidies retained. ICE funding limited. Courts protected.

Don't lose the big picture here. Use the moment.

Expand full comment
Jane Stevenson's avatar

Fun podcast.

Ruth Ben-ghiat and Brooke Harrington today on Lucid both came to the same opinion that this "feud" was a distraction to take our attention away from the Doge Interns who are embedded in the Federal Government and spreading like a parasite, and the enormous data transfer to Peter Thiel's Palantir company. They further posited that the Broligarchs and Doge just 'bought the government" to actualize the new AI state, where we're all controlled due to the fact that they had all our data. It was bleak. It also made a lot of sense. So this was fun to wallow in our schadenfreude for a while.

Expand full comment
J.M. "Mike" Hayes's avatar

JVL, you need to stop talking over Sarah. She has lots to contribute and not letting her get to what she thinks is the most important thing to consider for 30 minutes doesn't work for partners in a podcast. That said, I'm enjoying this, but if Sarah is playing the Ed McMahon part on the Johnny Carson show, make that clear from the beginning, please.

Expand full comment
Virginia's avatar

Can't lie - I am lovin' this feud! However, I am a government contractor. If I worked on any of Elon's contracts right now, I'd be having a nervous breakdown. This may all be bullshitting between friends for Trump & Elon, but real people work for these guys & real jobs depend on what they say & do. Between this & the tariffs, I hope some people start to realize that these 2 are irresponsible clowns. Those of us who live in the real world should be fed up.

Expand full comment
The Sixth Replicant's avatar

Back in December, I put my marker down on Musk to be the first to drink polonium tea. I am happy both to be right about Musk being the first major casualty and very happy that we haven't reached the polonium tea phase of Putinism/Trumpism.

And seeing the two of them flinging shit at each other... well, it truly is a Christmas miracle.

Expand full comment
joanne Morrison's avatar

I think it was Occupy Dems where he told Elon what to do - primary republicans - share what Elon has on Trump/Epstein - NASA will not drop Elon - we have no way of getting our folks back and forth without Elon right now although I think that should change.

And suggest Elon get help for his addictions. It was some very good suggestions.

Expand full comment
DKW's avatar

JVL being the wrestling fan you are. My conspiracy is this entire feud was kayfabe. They brought the McMahons into office to figure out how to exit Elon but do it in a way that could create a velocity that could safely land him back at his companies. I'm not saying it worked out completely but it was kayfabe.

Expand full comment
Denis M.'s avatar

How does Trump walk back saying that the Elon contracts were wasteful and should be cancelled? Easy. He's Donald Trump..."Well, I was going to cancel Elon's contracts but it turns out he likes me...he likes me A LOT...so I guess we will keep them."

Expand full comment
Monica in SoCal's avatar

TACO

Expand full comment
Russ Wiecking's avatar

Trump is wedded to the tech Bros partly because they're cool with a large segment of young men. Also, of course, they are rich and powerful in their realm. What gives me pleasure is that Thiel, Andreessen, Musk, Zuck, Cook, etc. must certainly see Trump as a brainless lump of grease. I doubt Trump himself is able to see this and the danger in it.

Expand full comment
T. Graham Nielson's avatar

If this happens again, do you think Rogan would go with Musk or Trump? Like genuinely, what would be his calculation there?!?

Expand full comment
UAO2's avatar

Just rewatching the Haagen-dazs bit with JVL’s Elon impression. This is so delightful! Thanks again for doing this.

Expand full comment
Amanda's avatar

We are missing the point. Both of them are validating all of the problems that we tried to warn people about regarding Elon‘s conflicts of interest, and Trump‘s idiocy with the tariffs and basically every decision he’s made from day one both of their criticisms of the other are validand proved that they knew these problems existed. Get billionaires out of our fucking government!

.

Expand full comment
max skinner's avatar

Listening to this time capsule piece. It strikes me that Speaker Johnson is playing the middle school role of go between to the alpha and the wanna be alpha in the group. "Please just call me so I can explain what's happened. Just let me explain. I just want to explain that what so and so is not correct. Alpha wants you to understand so please call me." And then whining "he won't answer me. I've texted and texted and he just ghosts me. We used to be so close." How do you convey a pleading whining tone in black and white font? Well just imagine it as you read it.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

Put this in perspective. A year ago, Tesla shares were around $175. Now they are at $285, and at their lowest yesterday they were around $275.

So far, Musk's association with Trump has gained him about $100/share.

In the depths of the pandemic, they were around $60/share.

We have a long way to go before Tesla is in the state it was in then.

Expand full comment
il nessuno's avatar

I agree that, subject to the veracity of the Epstein Files thing, Trump has the advantage here, but we should not be giddy about this. (If Trump really is in the files in a significant way it should be the end of him; if it isn't then America's depravity will be plain for the world to see, and the verdict will be final). The reason we should not be giddy about this feud is that Musk represents a power center in the American Right that is somewhat independent of Trump. If Trump destroys Musk, Trump consolidates power.

Perhaps a decent historical comp is the 'Night of the Long Knives', in which Hitler destroyed, in violent terms, the brownshirts/SA and Ernst Rohm. I'm not saying something that violent is going to happen (although I wouldn't be totally shocked if Musk finds himself waking up dead some morning down the line), but the lesson should be that these internecine conflicts are absolutely part of the natural evolution of fascist/authoritarian movements.

Expand full comment
Lucy D's avatar

Did Elon leave enough experts to undo what DOGE did? Just asking.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

Musk must have hoovered up a lot of information about Criminal Trump and his supporters, including his supporters in Congress. Information is power.

Expand full comment
Ann P's avatar

I wondered about this myself, ie, what kind of info did Musk get on the Trump family when he sucked those government computers dry. And you just know Musk has guys on staff with the skills to mine all that data for specific target information, so if there’s anything he can put together on Trump or his family, he will do it. It’s the very data mining fear that I’ve had along with Musk that could potentially come back and bite Trump. Assuming Musk is ever lucid enough long enough to make sure the job gets done. The Biden Crime Family is small potatoes compared to the Trump Crime Family.

Expand full comment
bonton5000's avatar

I, too, was giddy yesterday. It was the best day in a long time!

Expand full comment
pfuhlir's avatar

So, I am not casting aspersions. The Bulwark crowd has been exemplary in outing, analyzing, and castigating the inexorably creeping fascism that is likely to be our future. But we are a few months away from totalitarian control courtesy of HR1, the Big Beautiful Bill, that will make life in America hell. Shouldn't we be fighting that tooth and nail with every ounce of energy 24/7? I am petrified by what looks like impending doom.

Expand full comment
Howard's avatar

Hi Team,

I can't believe we actually live in a world where I now view Bill Kristol as a voice of reason and sanity.🤷🏾‍♂️ Back during the Reagan - Bush era, I used throw things at the screen when he was on TV, Lol. We all must evolve. I enjoy what you're doing here. I subscribe to various news outlets, and I share your pages with friends.

None of us will be surprised if Elon starts a third party, Lord knows it's long overdue. I'm not sure if he should lead it though. I still believe at the end of the day, Trump is involved in a con-job of biblical proportions! When his term is over, it will be very interesting to see how many billions he has pocketed.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

The next President should take all Trump's money and all Elon's companies.

Tusk (Trump + Musk) and the SCOTUS have given the President all the power to do it.

Expand full comment
Mimi H.'s avatar

I think Trump has Musk by the gonads, but Elon's got his hands on a flamethrower.

Trump DOES remember he handed over a lot of access to Elon's interns? Now, Elon might have the patience of age </sarcasm>, but do his 20-somethings? They might feel like they have to pick a daddy.

Also, Bannon brought up deporting Elon, but was he referring to Elon's student visa expiring after he dropped out to start a company? Can someone retroactively do anything with that?

Expand full comment
Liza's avatar

Hey: Trotsky, after feeing to Europe, went NOT to S America! But to our North American neighbor: Mexico, where Stalin orchestrated his murder. But not until after he wrote a number of articles and had an affair with Frida Kahlo. And and and…. So much.

Expand full comment
T. Graham Nielson's avatar

Best night since the Ann Selzer poll!!!

Expand full comment
Ian Lasby's avatar

I love JVLs take on letting Musk back into the Democratic Party. Fuck that and fuck him. He’s Nazi scum and if there was any justice in the world we should be talking about what to charge him with not begging for him to come back.

Expand full comment
Jodi's avatar

OMG you both are amazing! Thank you for doing this in real time. Shows how bat sh** crazy this administration is run.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

I always thought Trump was a weirdo.

Expand full comment
Binky's avatar

What do you call two trolls having a flame war?

Expand full comment
Carole Langston's avatar

Trotsky murdered in Mexico

Expand full comment
Carole Langston's avatar

Off the top of your head, it takes a clever person to lie.

Expand full comment
OJVV's avatar

I wished I'd seen this in real time yesterday, because it would have been thrilling to sit back and watch the S*Show go down with these two covering it live.

Reading Morning Shots, I'd say that Bill had it right: "Trump has Musk by the balls. Trump knows it. And now Musk knows it." Thus, again, proving that which does not kill you, only makes you stronger. I have to think that Trump, before the end of his term, is going to nationalize Space X (that should be the case, no matter what), thus further emphasizing the full capitulation of the billionaire class (Can we imagine a Bezos or Zuckerberg suddenly growing balls after they've watched Musk's hang on the line?)

The upshot, this might mean these guys might are falling from grace, and will take a step back, thank their lucky stars and be less willing to put their riches on the line in an effort to sway the world. Maybe they will retreat back into the shadows a bit. (Not likely, right?) Now though, what's the likelihood that someone like Cuban is going to be willing to step up and go toe-to-toe with Trump? (I don't know how I feel about Cuban being "the guy" really, but he's a known figure and he has some relative security in his wealth.)

What worries me though, is that this does make Trump all that much stronger and it means it will be much more difficult to unseat him. I'd say that now all signals are the person(s) do do it will need to be people who feel they have nothing to lose, driving by a groundswell that comes from the bottom up.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

I don't know that's true. Musk has an international presence. Trump doesn't.

I know you're going to go, "But, but, but," but most countries don't have to let Trump have his way. And he doesn't have the financial weight there that Musk does.

The problem for both of them is that they are both weakened without reinforcement from the other one. And Musk just gave permission to Republicans in Congress to chart their own courses.

We'll know something is up when Musk relocates a launch facility to Mexico. And why not? Mexico is closer to the equator, so why not take advantage of that additional boost?

Expand full comment
Linda Pirlot's avatar

Elon was on a student visa, so before he overstayed its expiration, he broke his eligibility to stay at all...and yet they gave him citizenship.

Expand full comment
max skinner's avatar

Did he overstay? I thought he dropped out of school to take a job which violates the terms of a student visa. (Student visas only allow a holder to work 10 hours a week at an on campus job or to take an internship in the summer that is consistent with their course of study.)

Expand full comment
Carole Langston's avatar

Stop giving Cat....air time.

Expand full comment
Dave Yell's avatar

"Breaking up is hard to do" *Neil Sedaka

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

How is Musk opposed to child abuse and not women abuse?

And if he is, why was he hanging out with and supporting Criminal Trump, well-known woman abuser, for so long?

Once you start looking at this morally, there's way too much to look at.

Expand full comment
max skinner's avatar

I guess the idea is that a woman is an adult.

Expand full comment
Carol R's avatar

JVL are you wearing a Chicago Cubs sweatshirt? I love it if you are.

Expand full comment
Michael White's avatar

is there a trade deficit between DT and EM?

Expand full comment
Cayce Jones's avatar

Musk has been incredibly more successful in his ventures, than has Trump, with the exception of fools electing the orange doofus twice. It may be that Musk has had some sort of breakdown, or that he has been damaged by drug use, but, otherwise the track record goes to Musk.

Expand full comment
Carole Langston's avatar

tRump always contradicts

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

Or maybe, "Trump Always Contradicts Reality". TACR.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

You need an O. "Trump Always Contradicts Others". TACO.

Expand full comment
Craig's avatar

Given the way that Trump and company have been manipulating the financial markets by the timing of their announcements about potentially severe economic consequences, I don’t see why this alleged break up isn’t just more of the same. The severity of the felon’s comments could be assumed to be in the same vein as the fake assassination attempt.

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

I agree on that.

Expand full comment
El's avatar

My question: who’s running the country?

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

The Heritage Foundation is currently implementing the most policy it appears to me. Project 2025 was set up to do that. Peter Thiel with his Palantir might be taking over certain functions like surveillance of our entire population. He wants to control us and dole out privileges based on loyalty and usefulness points. So Russia like. So China like.

Expand full comment
Diane Panasci's avatar

I do not like having to use ( download) the app! To many platforms. Who was I talking to, and online or an app.

I used to love The Bulwark, but lately not so much!

Expand full comment
Ann P's avatar

What Joe said.

Expand full comment
Joe McPlumber's avatar

I don't understand? The Bulwark works fine in any browser. Desktop, tablet, phone, heck it even works on my truck radio although i admit, the latter is rather awkward and i avoid it.

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

I have been listening to Dean Blundell and Zev Shalev more often, but I consider this discussion to be a good one. The kind I am subscribing to the Bulwark for. I am in the meantime backing off of Blundell and Shalev. Too much news on some days. I would like someone to be discussing what we can do to protect ourselves from these madmen and madwomen in this administration.

Expand full comment
John Bowers's avatar

Thank you for reposting with Rebecca taking us into the weekend! It feels like Friday now! We watched last night but didn't feel right without our Friday song!

Expand full comment
Joe McPlumber's avatar

Yeah that could be a bit more consistent. My Fridays often aren't official until Saturday or Sunday, i think one time i actually celebrated Friday on Monday of the following week.

Expand full comment
Barnaby Katz's avatar

Trotsky went to Mexico! You can visit his house in Mexico City, there's a cool museum.

Expand full comment
Ian Lasby's avatar

He went to Turkey, then Norway and then finally Mexico. Ironically being out of the country probably saved him from being executed for a few years as most of his colleagues were killed in 1937-1939 while he lived til 1940.

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

It is discussed in the book The Illegals by Shawn Walker, which I will continue reading when I am back in Europe where I left my copy. There is a discussion of how Trotsky was murdered in Mexico.

Expand full comment
El's avatar

Yes! Where he met up with Frida Kahlo and who knows what happened?

Expand full comment
Barnaby Katz's avatar

So La Casa Azul (the Frieda Kahlo/Diego Rivera house) is quite close to the house where Troaky lived. Apparently, the fatal ice pick attack (where a Russian agent seduced the maid to gain access to the property) was the second attempt on his life. The first was machine gun attack from a turret mounted on a car that busted down the gate. Wild stuff.

Expand full comment
max skinner's avatar

That was before they perfected falling out of windows and polonium tea.

Expand full comment
Barnaby Katz's avatar

I know, right? Before the assassination attempts were barbaric and distasteful... They're so refined now; who hasn't craved a little plutonium tea in the afternoon?

Expand full comment
B. Lewis's avatar

Elon “was doing”??? He/DOGE are STILL doing!!!!

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

Are there any Dems doing outreach to Elon? No one I know is fooled by anything he does. Everyone I know, and I am a member of Democrats Abroad, Indivisible Deutschland, and we are all about bringing down Musk's businesses, and other US companies who back Trump.

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

I read Project 2025. I said from the gitgo that Trump will destroy Elon Musk's companies when Musk gets too big for his britches. But, I don't know if that is the case right now.

Expand full comment
Kate's avatar

It may not last long, but we dis get to have some real fun with this tit for tat slapdown between these two nutjobs.

Expand full comment
Travis's avatar

Listening to this a 2nd time today simply because It's not that often you get to see JVL this happy. As he sometimes likes to say, one of life's greatest pleasures is getting to see bad things happen to bad people (hence his joy). While that's definitely great and true, watching people who are terminally depressed/cynical have a sudden joy outbreak is also one of life's greatest pleasures.

Expand full comment
RochelleTheBelle's avatar

I’m confused. Wasn’t this released yesterday afternoon?

And I agree. Love seeing JVL giddy!

Expand full comment
Travis's avatar

It was released as a live episode yesterday, which I watched this morning at work on catchup, but then this dropped with 5 extra minutes as a secret show 30 minutes ago and I need another ride on the merry go round (complete with Rebecca taking us home).

Expand full comment
RochelleTheBelle's avatar

Same! So we’re not getting a real Secret Pod today?!?

Expand full comment
Travis's avatar

Nope, the emergency pod last night is the secret pod given early

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

I'm not celebrating. This doesn't seem all that helpful to getting rid of the fascists. And it may distract people from the real work of getting rid of them.

Expand full comment
LCJ's avatar

Anyone else having trouble w the playback?

Expand full comment
Brendan Holly's avatar

Trotsky. Mexico. Ice axe.

Expand full comment
Denis M.'s avatar

Sarah's point about Elon Musk and his companies and JVL's rant about the privatization of government functions highlight a significant problem with federal agencies' reliance on vendors for services. While it may seem inefficient, it was arguably better when government agencies developed their own platforms or systems. Even when utilizing contractors like General Dynamics or Lockheed, the government retained ownership of the platform or hardware.

Today, outsourcing services to vendors often transfers ownership and intellectual property to the vendor. This creates concerning scenarios, such as Elon Musk's potential influence on military operations through Starlink access. Palantir presents another example. Its data platform is deeply embedded within the Department of Defense (DOD) and other agencies (full disclosure: I previously contracted with DOD as a data platform architect). Unlike in-house platforms, Palantir's proprietary system makes exporting data challenging – essentially giving Palantir control over the data itself. This vendor lock is becoming increasingly prevalent with cloud providers and technology companies, raising serious concerns about government dependence and potential misuse of sensitive information.

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

I have been against this outsourcing for many many presidencies. I could not believe that Biden did not try to dethrone him when Musk messed with Ukraine. I also hope that the EU cuts out X. Palantir is dangerous since it is creating a China-like surveillance system of the US. It is all creepy.

Expand full comment
Denis M.'s avatar

To be clear, Palantir is the vendor being used for the data aggregation platform you mention. Palantir is also a very good platform for data analytics and has benign uses. They are ahead of their competitors in how they use AI to analyze the data. The way it is being used and the civil liberties concerns you raise are the real problem. Buying Palantir's platform instead of building their own will allow them to deploy data collection much more quickly than if they built their own.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

That's right. Palantir is very dangerous to freedom.

And I'm always suspicious of outsourcing government services. First of all, the taxpayers pay twice: first for the service and then for the profits.

But you're right about the dangers of putting this in private hands.

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

Julie Roginsky from Salty Politics says that Trump will win in this battle and then the other Oligarchs will line up behind Trump. She also sees that if Trump goes after Musk he can slink off elsewhere in the world.

I said during Biden's reign that Musk's companies should be nationalized, and because I also live in Germany, that Germany should take Musk's Tesla company and turn it into a drone factory which some other German auto manufacturers are doing. That is because Musk has proven to try to influence the German elections. I attended a webinar on it and wrote 2 pieces on it. The second one explains Musk's actions better.

Part 1

https://lindaweide.substack.com/p/did-bots-and-right-wing-media-platforms?r=f0qfn

Part 2

https://lindaweide.substack.com/p/did-bots-and-right-wing-media-platforms-b88?r=f0qfn

I am sickened by Trump, Musk and DOGE and the fact that they sucked up my daughter's data as well as ours, but she is just starting out.

Is Trump being a pedophile more creepy than the sexual lust he has expressed for his daughter repeatedly? He has already fits the Christian Nationalist female raping culture, which just requires one to say they regret it, although Trump just goes with denial and running out the clock.

My daughter asked how I know that Musk does drugs. Good question. She is in her second year of university and I can say nothing politically without her saying, "How do you know?" "What is your evidence?"

I think that no one should have that kind of power over national security. I also would like our railroads to be nationalized. The issues are getting out in the open, let us hope that some MAGAs catch it. Everyone is saying that JDVance is out unless he comes out against Musk today. That is going to be interesting.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

It's hard to know anything about public figures because we get all our evidence secondhand.

I'm less concerned about Musk's (alleged) drug use than the facts on display. His destruction of agencies of the federal government isn't a matter of belief. People laid off or fired are showing up at town halls, where their presence isn't disputable. There's quite enough evidence in the public domain to know that Musk has caused massive damage to the government. It's a fact--and a damaging one.

I agree that Biden should have taken more action to rein in Trump's presence in our national security infrastructure. And the whole issue of contractors in the defense industry should be addressed. But I suspect that will require the return of democracy and the rule of law first.

Expand full comment
Monica in SoCal's avatar

Sometimes I think Biden trusted the voters.

Bad move.

Expand full comment
Rich Wingerter's avatar

He should have adopted a more sophisticated strategy: Trust, but verify.

I used to think more highly of voters than I have since the 2024 election. I think they turn out to be greedy, and their moral standards are pretty suspect.

But that’s also the result of decades of the right wing telling them money is more important than people. We went down a vicious cycle where people with money used it to get more money, often by dubious means, and the public just stood back and stood by.

We Americans need to reclaim the moral high ground. And part of that is chasing money out of politics until humans are in charge, once again. Then we can go back to trusting the voters.

I’d like to go back to join Joe Biden in that nostalgia.

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

Rich, I agree with everything you are saying.

Expand full comment
Cindy@Reference's avatar

Great live. Appreciate Sarah's insights that the feud is less destructive for America than these two aligned. BTW JVL: Trotsky went to Mexico.

Expand full comment
Jeffinator's avatar

Impeach Trump, deport Musk, nationalize SpaceX? Sign me up!

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

However, I am not for impeaching Trump until we have a Democratic/Independent dominated Congress. Here is the line of succession to Trump, and each one of them is more of the same nastiness all the way down to Noem at #18. Yeech. Scroll down and see who you want. I certainly don't want JDV.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession

I would rather like to regain Congress so that they can clip Trump's wings and impeach him for real, and make sure that JDV does not get elected if he steps in.

Expand full comment
Jeffinator's avatar

Oh, I agree with you completely. Short of Trump overseeing a human sacrifice on the white house lawn, republicans wouldn't convict. However, the line of succession doesn't concern me as much as I don't believe (and I could be very wrong) what Trump followers would follow in lockstep with Vance as they did with Trump. In addition, if Trump were impeached AND convicted, that means there was a huge, Y-U-U-G-E! turn about in the electorate and I think that would neutralize Vance and serve as a warning.

Expand full comment
Linda Weide's avatar

I can see that happening as well. Not sure what Peter Thiel's backing will have JDV up to. Would rather not find out.

Expand full comment
Danny Ng's avatar

I’m here for the Congressional Oversight webinar

Expand full comment
ErrorError
0:40
SPEAKER 1
Times a trillion.