Tim Miller: Our WWE Politics

Welcome to the Friday Bulwark podcast. I’m Charlie Sykes. I am back with Tim Miller. So first of all, happy Friday, and welcome to Norl and Tim. Hey, Charlie.

It’s

good to be with you. It’s good to be here. It was a long drive. I saw a lot of America. It was enjoyable, but I’m ready.

I’m ready to be

in my new home. We ought to mention that we’re actually taking this show on the road. People wondering what is Charlie and Tim actually like, what happens when we’re in person. We generally don’t do this in person. We did one podcast in Austin, Texas.

That’s true. You were batting your eyes at me. It’s like in person. It’s like, you

know, the farks, you know, you can’t even feel it at a whole different level of intensity when you’re staring me in the eyes. Yeah. It was not the batting of

the eye thing. I don’t know what it was. I just I But in any case, we’re gonna have an audience. This is Charlie and Tim live in New York City, Thursday, May eighteenth two thousand twenty three. I sense that you’re you’re a little bit nervous about this.

The the one on one with a crowd. I love doing the live studies

so far. And our other live events been so great. So, you know, something about you and me though, you know, just we have an extra level of energy that, you know, who knows what’s gonna happen up there? Yeah. So I don’t know about nervous anxiety, some excited anxiety, but I’m people should make a whole week about it.

New York is like beautiful for two months a year, and May eighteenth should be it. Right? Like, make a whole weekend out of it. May is gorgeous. So this

is a two part bowl that goes on the road. You and I go on and we go mono and mono. Or knows where that’s gonna go. And then we exit and JBL and Sarah Longwell over with Molly Jongfast, whose whose Secret Podcast I did this week. So you have basically two, a double dose, two scoops of the Bulwark if you come to New York for all of this.

You can you can get the ticket. And

we’ll hang out afterwards. Let’s have a beer. Least I will. You might be tired. I don’t know.

I’ll hang out and have a beer. I I don’t want a big promise this for you.

I was thinking of the format of the show. People are gonna go we’re not gonna talk about jump into Sandoz and all this other stuff. Right? Because we’ve heard this on the podcast every single week. So what I was thinking of doing was probing a question that I’ve heard from a lot of listeners which is.

And you know where I’m going on this, Tim. Does Tim Miller not really know any musicals before nineteen ninety. I mean Mhmm. So okay. Oklahoma.

I know the basics on Oklahoma where the wind? Something something I saw Ron DeSantis

Street. This is good. South Pacific. I literally never you messaged me that on the subject, and that was the first time I’d ever heard of. Those I mean, I’ve heard the term South Pacific like flying

to the South specific, but I but I wasn’t aware that it was a show. Okay. The king and I thought about Tingley or my fair lady? Mean,

obviously, I’ve heard the phrase, my fair lady, but I would not. I don’t know any of the songs.

I think that what we need to do is I need to play some show tunes and ask the people in the crowd. This will be a New York crowd, and they will all know it. And I I just want, like, okay, we’re going to find one of them. Tim will recognize. Do

I get to do, like, jam bands songs back at you? I saw widespread panic at Madison Square Garden one time. Can we do can I, like, I saw the strokes there — Nice? — CD sound sensor. Can we do a little can we do one of those with a little back in forth.

We we could just do was there a show, like, name that tune? Maybe instead of doing the podcast, we should just do name that tune live. I don’t know if people pay fifty dollars for that.

I would not do well. No. I I don’t know anything about. Generally, any anything that has the word panic in it with large crowds, I try to avoid okay. But I do have something for you this morning.

Okay. And this is relevant. Okay? This is not just off the wall. Alright?

Let’s play this. And by the way, I’m confident that you will be able to recognize this. Okay?

I show up. You put that hole in down there. Go to bed. You’re so why am I close out there? You shut up.

You gotta get the law. And then then call her back because she ain’t gonna come. You’re gonna have a pen. Let’s say, oh, you wouldn’t try to

This is a black and white movie, or was this is this in color? I’m just trying to get

my glasses off. No.

I think is it on the waterfront?

It

all the icons? I don’t even know why that’s in my brain. This

is my way of welcoming you to your new home in New Orleans. It is one of the greatest movies second New Orleans ever made a street car name, desire, Marlon —

William. — or a street car name, desire, or her logo.

Now that you are officially a resident, of New Orleans. I

need to watch that. I’ll watch that. Okay.

Or at least do not let anyone else in New Orleans know that you are not No.

Okay. This makes you feel bad because my husband, we are doing on the road trip. I was doing New Orleans music education for him. You know, we’re doing the meters and dot John and just, you know, we did a little hip hop, the no no limited guys. Like, we wanted we wanted to make boosty badass.

You know, I wanted to make sure he knew all the New Orleans tunes, but here I am now. He needs to educate me the other way on the movies, I guess. Because I a street card named designer. I I’ve seen Nat’s skit that you just played there, parodied in other places, but, you know, the original. Yeah.

I know. Yeah. It’s

become a hey. Speaking of memes and we have to do this because we’re talking on Friday morning. So by Friday afternoon, this meme will already be beaten to death with hammers. Okay? But can we talk about the various rapid unscheduled disassembly that have taken place this week?

Obviously, SpaceX blowing up after about four minutes, you know, in my newsletter this morning, I I was tempted to make a snarky remark about the rapid unscheduled disassembly of Wanda Sanddas’ campaign, but I thought that’s unfair to SpaceX rocket, which at least made it off the launch pad. Which is still a question mark, I guess. Yes. We’re on. Speaking.

Mark’s, do you have your blue check mark?

I’ve lost my blue check mark. It’s so haphazard. Have you noticed this? This is even

Bill Crystal’s has. Does

he? See, one of the people Elon’s pay in the eight bucks out of his own pocket for?

I say that would be unlikely. Unlikely. It’s such a like, these losers you know, and who cares? Alright. Just just start here.

Who — Yeah. —

literally who cares. It’s embarrassing for Bill to still have his check mark at this point. It only matters and, like, there’s some legitimate. You know, if you are the emergency services of New Orleans, like, you’d be nice to know what the real one is. For example, like, there’s some where it’s serious, but who cares about us?

Like pundits, whether

we have it? Yeah. Yeah. You’re right. I mean, there are some real world consequences, and you you have a lot of these emergency agencies that are going, hey, by the way, you know, kinda screwed that’s putting us out of business in various ways.

Elon doesn’t give a shit. But

the funniest fart is, are you ready for this? I bet you noticed this. Now, people who don’t have blue checks, I’m sorry to you, the unwashed masses, the second tier citizens to Elon is, you know, right to slave fighting for you. You might not know this, but we, the verified, had a special feed where we could just see things from people who also had blue checks that lived in our rare verified heirs, you know, kind of like an elite club. He’s taken away the blue check mark, but we still have because he, like, doesn’t have any developers left.

And so we But

who are these people? Who are the people on the verified list? It’s like, okay.

But I still have all the benefits. And now it’s just weird people in there. It’s like turkey neck, implying to me. And like who’s turkey neck?

There are many turkey necks out there. Okay. So while we were all distracted by the whole blue check mark thing, Elon Musk’s Twitter deleted the labels that alerted users. They were reading news from actual state run propaganda outlets of authoritarian governments. So for example, you know, Russia today, TAS, the Chinese communist news agencies.

So last week, it was like, I’m gonna slap this label on NPR and and, you know, PBS, like, yeah, because we really need to be warned about them. Mhmm. But now he has decided because he’s Elon Musk and its Friday or whatever. He’s gonna take off all the labels, including sputnik and everything. And it’s like so there’s actually a tweet out there.

Which I I believe I retweeted, where the editor in chief of RT, which is a Russian propaganda outlet, thanks Elon Musk for freemium outlet from the state media label and making her appear more in searches. This is great. Okay. Thank you. Twitter de label to me in all of our channels as public funded media.

Now you can find me in the search brotherly Elon Musk from the heart. Says this Putin Shill propaganda. So congratulations. Yeah.

Good news. Well, the good news is yeah, they don’t need to do bots anymore. You know, that was the whole theory of the bot program. Right? Was that they would create, you know, social media accounts that would peer to be legitimate.

That would be tweeting Russian propaganda. But now they don’t even have to do that. They’re just the Russian propaganda. Accounts could just tweet Russian propaganda. We haven’t doing some snacking on this.

Have you been pushing people over to our sub stack notes? I’m trying to move on. I’m

not as aggressive as I should because it’s very good. It’s excellent stuff. Yeah.

I’m trying to move people over. I mean, I’m a Twitter addict. I’ll be there till we die. It’ll be me, the Russian bots, the crypto guys, Tom Nichols, like that’ll be it’ll be the last five people on the site in you. And because we’re addicted.

I admit it. I wish I was not, but I am. But, you know, I mean, things are getting ugly over there. So we’re stacking. We’re on our subject notes.

I’m grabbing Bulwark stuff now. We’ve got a bulwark edit. You know, we’ve got a diversified. Because, like, it’s even more than a freak show than it was. And it’s, like, the guy just doesn’t understand.

And we can all sound like the blue check stuff is kind of a little bit fart sniffing. Like, the guy just doesn’t understand what the purpose was of all of these things. Right? Like, there was a reason why you verified people. Right?

It’s so that people couldn’t get imitated. There was a reason why that you’d tried to fight the fake bots so that people got, you know, real information even it was wrong, like, information from legitimate sources, right, from people getting their real opinions. Right? He’s gonna turn the thing into, like, the Craigslist scam pages, you know, where you can’t even buy tickets on Craigslist anymore because everybody on there’s a scammer because there’s no there’s no controls, like Elon, you know, because he’s in his little SpaceX bubble just doesn’t understand that. And he thought the whole thing was about, like, his passing match with Taylor Lourens, and he’s, like, about to lose fifty billion dollars over it.

Wasn’t really a great business deal.

It’s a terrible business model. Especially when the heart of the business model is that you have millions of people some of them actually talented who are providing you with free content all the time. And what do you do? You find a way to piss them off and drive them away. There are people out there who are giving you stuff for free all the time.

You pay nothing for them. This is a brilliant model that he’s decided to dump on from a great height. That’s what kinda you say. I have a problem here today with you, Tim. Uh-oh.

There’s just so much stuff. I don’t

know. Where

did we start? We talk about Ron DeSantis in the shitty week that he’s had, a terrible week that he’s had. We have a new Wall Street Journal poll showing that once again he’s, you know, dropped double digit behind Donald Trump, by the way, the so Wall Street Journal poll has an interesting data point about the new Republican Party. Fifty five percent of Republicans say that fighting woke ideology in our schools and businesses is more important than protecting entitlements from cut. And the funny

part about that is, do you know what was behind that poll, Dana? This is the Wall Street Journal’s own poll, like, that’s such a weird thing to ask people. Like, like, what do you care more about the wilkes or entitlement cuts? It’s like these guys are trying to nudge Trump. And to stop talking so much about maintaining entitlements because they’re still, you know, they’re still a handful of doctor and air free market conservatives out there that, like, want there to be entitlement cuts.

So it’s like we’re gonna do this poll comparing the woke versus the entitlement cuts. You know, it comes back. It’s still a quarter of the Republican Party. They do care about protecting entitlements. They found out even though it’s how they wanted, and and half of that the party is now obsessed with the look.

Did you see the clip of Ron DeSantis? Like, where he says, woke seven times in, like, ten seconds. We’re gonna stop the woke in the streets. We’re gonna stop the woke in the air. We’re gonna stop the woke in the school.

It’s just like, what are you talking about?

Well, he’s got his mantra. You know, and and the problem is, you know, the eighty sixth time you’ve heard that speech, you’re gonna go, okay, Ron, can we just move on? Can we just move on from your fight with Disney? Which is one of the most mind boggling stupid things that I can ever think about. Like, in what political world, in what roomful of political geniuses to someone say, hey, you know what, we can slingshot our way to the presidency by going after the happiest place on or I

wanna I wanna get to the Disney thing. One second, but I just want the fifty five percent this is just a fundamental problem that Republicans have gotten themselves into being very online. Like, there was this period of time that we’re it was, I think, right, And I’m gonna write some of that, so you go back to the twenty twenty primary early where the Democrats, like, their staffers were still online. They’re, like, obsessed with these random, progressive, hobby horses. Like, twenty two year old progressives really care about, but nobody else does.

And it hurt, I think, a lot of Democratic campaigns. And, like, that was a common criticism of Democrats. And and I think there’s been a readjustment on that, not maybe as far as maybe it could be, but a certain level of readjustment. The Republicans sound the inverse of this. Fifty nine percent of the base is obsessed with the woke in the schools.

And, like, every swing voter has no idea what you’re telling us

to define it. Right.

Yeah. They can’t define it. What about swing voters? I mean, I just there’s certain people in my life that I think about who are, like, former Republican types who are not, you know, super daily Bulwark creators or listeners, like like all of our good fans, like, you know, have other interests in life and kind of our casual you know, Romney Biden voters. Right.

They don’t even know what you’re talking about. I literally can’t define it. Don’t understand it in your whole stuff.

Like, sticking in tongue. Yeah.

There’s a false stumpage. And it’s like it’s like you’d go to us to hear around DeSantis and halfway through he starts speaking in Chinese, like John Huntsman did on the debate stage at one time when I was far with my head and my hands. Right? It’s like, what are you? Like, we don’t even know what you’re talking about.

And yet he feels like he has to do this now, I think probably conceivably said, but also because half of the party in this Wall Street Journal poll, like, that’s what they care the most about. So you’re completely beholden. Yeah.

So this week in my morning shots yesterday, I ran through a bunch of the headlines, you know, how bad they are and people backing away from them. The way, you know, he’s trip to Washington, sort of blew up in his face, more of his congressman from Florida are endorsing against him. It’s just and you can feel the conventional wisdom turning against him. Including the recognition of something that we have talked about endlessly four months here at the Bulwark, which is the fact The Ron DeSantis does not simply play an asshole on television. He is one.

He’s got a personality problem. He’s not likable. He’s not warm and fuzzy. But also now this dawning recognition that, you know, the guy doesn’t have very good political instincts. And he’s kind of locked into this commitment that and I wrote yesterday that, you know, he has to fit in with the lizard people.

You know, I am a lizard person. I, you know, we’ll fight the same people. I hate the same people. I’m gonna diss the same people. I’m gonna punch the people in the face that you actually hate.

But he just doesn’t have the skill to pull it off. I mean, it’s like an ill fitting suit. Right? So he just thinks that he has you know, tell gays to, you know, shut the fuck up, you know, bully college kids who wear a mask. He has, you know, sign a, you know, a six week abortion ban.

He’s, you know, bitch slapping liberals all over the place and, you know, showing that he doesn’t care about gun control or, you know, he’s gonna go after drag queens and and by god he’s gonna go after Disney World. And I think a lot of the rest of the country, including republics going, what are you doing, man? I mean, who are you? Yeah. It’s just not it’s not happening for him.

Is it? So here’s my question to you. Is he going to blow up on the launch pad? I feel almost embarrassed to ask the question because it’s clear he’s running. But Is there a chance now that Ron DeSantis is gonna look around and go, this is just not happening for me.

What do you think? I

don’t think so because, you know, there was a report yesterday that one of its big donors, Robert Bigolo, I think, is also really obsessed with space aliens. Whatever it’s worth. Maybe there’s a connection there between lizard man run Ron DeSantis space elevator session. But, you know, he’s like, I’m gonna put twenty million into a Super PAC, and I might even put in more. You know, there’s a certain type of big Republican donor who sees him maybe rightly, even as we can see is, maybe this is still the correct analysis that he’s like they’re only out.

Out of Trump? Yeah. What is their plan b to plan b? Yeah. Right.

I mean, Young Kim or Kemp, it’s like, could one of those people emerge? You know, maybe, I don’t know, the other people on the fields definitely are not. And so I think they don’t have the money. I’d

like to see Glenn Youngkin’s d m’s — Yeah.

— now. Yeah. Really? Please. Yeah.

So, you know, I I think that a lot of the money folks will stick with them. He surrounds himself with a very tight inner circle as all these stories report, and I think that the people around him still very much want him to run, and the people he’s hearing from very much wanted to run. It’s consultants who want money from him. And the donors who wanna give money. So there’s a lot of incentives pushing him in.

The other thing and and this really cuts both ways for him. Is that what Ron DeSantis still has better than any of the guys in twenty sixteen or gals. He has this elevator pitch. Against Trump that, like, in theory, could Bulwark, and that there’s some data that still shows that it could work. Right?

Like, yeah. Exactly. And he’s still winning in Michigan. There’s still some of these early states Murphy wrote about Iowa this week in the Bulwark. In theory, it could work.

And in win practice, we’re seeing a lot of reasons why it’s not as you wrote in the newsletter. But in theory Bulwark, and it’s this pitch of, hey, I have the same enemies as you, and I know how to beat them. Right? Trump does it. Now, can he actually make that argument against Trump successfully?

Not a lot of evidence of that right now. Yeah. Then it feels like he’ll wanna get in and try. And so I, you know, my assessment is I I think a big lesson that everyone should learn from twenty sixteen and twenty twelve. A lot of your political campaigns get baked in before you’re even a candidate.

You know, this happened to Jeb, but we did that I have regrets. We did that stupid Megyn Kelly interview where he got all pretzled up over Iraq before he was even a candidate. You know, we are gonna win anyway. But, like, you see this in many campaigns where or you don’t have any you don’t have the infrastructure around there to support you. I just don’t think that Ron DeSantis realized.

I think he’s in this little this little Tallahassee bubble. I don’t think he realized that the thing that was appealing was that elevator pitch and that all these little details that he adds on to it, just make a different group of people think he’s weird or wrong. Right? It’s like he felt like he had to do this Florida legislature section where it’s like, oh, we’re gonna expand, don’t say gay, which is despicable. We’re gonna do the six week abortion ban, which is, like, much less popular than than the fifteen week, whatever they had before.

You

know, we’re gonna go after Disney And each one of those things, like, he thinks it’s helping him with a certain part of the base, but it’s actually hurting him with another group. Right? Whether it’s swing voters, certain cases, Trump people, and other cases. He’s just lost his North Star. He could get it back.

I don’t think he’s gonna so anyway, the short answer is I don’t think he’s gonna blow up on a hunching pad because he still has that North Star. But man. I mean, it has been about as bad as it could be given the place that he was and, you know, the competition here. Let’s be real. This

is Charlie Sykes, host of the Bulwark podcast. Thanks so much for listening to this show where every day we try to help you make sense of the political world we live in and remind you that you are not the crazy one. If you enjoy this podcast, I’m sure you’re going to find my free morning shots newsletter, a great companion for understanding what is happening to us. And every morning as I prepare for this show, I show with my readers what’s trending and what to pay attention to, including my latest writing and essays on the events of the day. To sign up for my free morning shots newsletter.

Go to the bulwark dot com slash morning shots. That’s the bulwark dot com slash morning shots. And I look forward to seeing you in your inbox soon.

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You sent me this morning a new South Carolina poll of Republicans and you’re seeing a little bit of bad news for Donald Trump. Explain. Yeah. Well, again, and this is

another reason why you get the sanders and the race. Now, it’s just one poll so we get a caveat, but it’s interesting It’s a South Sarah Longwell, which is Trump absolutely needs to win. It’s a credible firm that is doing this poll. And here’s the question. Now, Trump’s winning in this poll.

But the more interesting thing underneath was how would you rate your support for Donald Trump these days? I love those kind of poll questions. Very open ended. Is not like they’re trying to do it. Okay.

Taking the temperature.

Yeah. Taking the temperature. Forty seven percent, my support firm is strong as ever. So that’s good news. Right?

He’s got this big base. Eleven percent I never liked him in the first place. Twenty one percent I used to like him, but now I wish he would just go away. Twenty percent I still like them but yes less than I used to really. I just looked at that and I’m like, man, you got thirty two percent that, like, wish you’d go away.

Now twenty percent of those people liked them and maybe if you liked somebody at one time, you can always try to win them back. Right? And and I’m sure they’ll talk themselves into an event of just being chumpered by it. But, like, that is a massive negative number that exceeded where he was in twenty sixteen. And I just I look at that.

And then my big takeaway is sometimes we just get down in our navels. And I know we’ve talked about this a lot on this podcast, but it just bears mentioning because nobody else fucking mentions it. That twenty percent, I still like them, but less than I used to. Had Tucker, Laura, Hannity,

had all

them had the courage of their own real views in the text that we’ve seen from Dominion. Had the Republican elected all stood up and been stronger after January sixth. You could get that thirty two number up. This was doable. Like, there’s this feet of complete attitude out there among the panda class among Republicans.

It’s like, oh, this is a cult. And, yeah, there’s a lot of people in the cult, forty seven percent. That’s not nothing. But you could have got it, like, half the party was and is gettable. And it’s just they’re getting the wrong signals.

You know? And it’s like and I when you see a number like thirty two, you’re like, man, they were a little bit closer to being out of the woods. I think than people realize. Had there been an actual concerted effort to get out of the woods?

Well, I mean, and this is the key. You know, crackdowns smoke itself, and, you know, the you may have luscious fruit hanging in the tree, but it’s but it’s not going to pick itself. Right? I mean, someone’s going to have to go. And do it.

And so far, everybody’s going, maybe it’ll fall on its own. Maybe it’ll go. Maybe we don’t need to have a trajectory. Maybe we should, hey, or maybe let’s let Chris Christie go and he’ll shake the tree and then it’ll fall off the tree or maybe there will Doesn’t wake up. Maybe there will be a meteor that Will Saletan and did knock knock the fruit down because it’s there, but we’ve seen this before and no one wants to touch the stuff.

Or

maybe I could kinda casually mention the voters that if they reached into the tree, they could get the fruit. But I’m not gonna say the name of the the you know what I mean? It’s like, you know, does Antis out there being, like, well, my hardest attack on Trump is gonna be that he is I have some sense that there’s been some chaos from other leaders. Out there. And it’s like, who are you talking about?

Like, you I I think that’s right. Like, maybe that wouldn’t have worked, but I guess, any time I looked at that poll and I just think, but nobody tried. Nobody tried. And here we are. We’re seeing this all again with the scientists where he’s like, I’m not gonna try.

My strategy is gonna be I’m gonna go hard on all these issues and hope that people come over to me. And like, that’s the

Ted Cruz strategy. And we’re just walking down that that same path again. That’s very interesting. Okay. So one more point on DeSantis.

It is interesting all of these, you know, members of his congressional delegation are now coming forward and saying, yeah, you know, I he never talks to me. He never writes to me. He pays no attention to me. And then you had that very weird Marco Rubio video. Just

really quick before the Rubio video. The one example of the guy that didn’t talk to him Stuby —

Yeah. — might be saying his

name wrong. Like, he got injured. He got, like, seriously injured. And Desi just didn’t call him. He didn’t send him a text, he didn’t send him a email, he didn’t have KC, you know, write a nice note with a cookie bouquet, It’s like a Republican member of congress from your own state got into a serious injury.

You’re thinking you’re running for president. Even if you’re not, you’re the governor. And that just shows a, like, lack of humanity and egotism Like, that is really alarming. If you’re on the bowl camp for DeSantis that he can recover from this, it’s like, this is a weird fucking person that does not have basic humans interaction skills.

Well, he just doesn’t like people. Yeah. There you go. I mean, yeah, I mean, that’s part of the problem. I mean, you can change your position on a lot of different issues, but if you basically, at bottom, don’t like people, don’t like interacting with people to be honest.

Shit about people. Fair business. A little harder to finesse. Right? I mean, you can hire people who can pretend to care about all of those things.

But, you know, and and again, I apologize in advance for saying this. But It does appear that Trump gets this. He’s constantly writing notes. He’s calling people. He does that kind of schmoozing thing.

And doesn’t change the fact that he’s a sociopath, like authoritarian nightmare, but he’s one with a Sharpie who I’m sitting here with with a note that he wrote me. Twenty sixteen. You know, he writes to people. It’s and forget, I’m not gonna even go into it. Okay.

So Marco does this weird video, and I have to say that I’m this indication of how weird I am. I’m I’m watching him do this video from his his office or his study or whatever. And I keep waiting for him to stop and reach for a bottle of water. And chug that down. I just it’s I thought

you’re gonna come out of his ears, switch somehow, continue to grow. Yeah.

No. We’re okay with it, but whatever. So he’s he’s complaining about how we just can’t get any, you know, gas down here in Southern Florida. You know, why aren’t they doing anything about it? And it’s like, okay.

For example, Yuri United States senator Marco, who is they? But it certainly was not a love note to Rhonda Sanders. I mean, if The last thing that Ron DeSantis needs this week, which was a terrible, horrible, very bad, absolutely crap tacular week. Is a United States senator from his state basically saying, yeah, it’s like why aren’t things so f ed up here in your home state? What’s going on there?

I

think that this was a hilarious video. If you don’t wanna show, you just gotta pull up Marco’s video thing because at first it’s like he talks like a minute and he’s been like, they aren’t doing he says over a day five times. It’s like, who’s they? Are you talking about the DeScientist administration? Are you talking about the president?

Like, you’re the sender one who you know, so he’s I we haven’t had drafts for four days. Lines are long and, like, they are out there saying that it’s it’s the people’s fault for wanting gas. I know the people that make sense for the people to get gas. I’m like, who who is the strong man you’re arguing against? I don’t even know who you’re talking about.

So it’s a very weird video, but it’s telling you about our politics, the Sema four article comes out this morning. And as soon as I saw it, I just was like, it just works on so many levels. Does scientists They they asked Marco, I guess, in the hall and the senate. You know, if you think about endorsing between Ron DeSantis and Trump. And and Marco was, like, no.

I’m not gonna do that for a while. And it’s like, well, you know, have you talked to DeSantis about it? And marketers says, I haven’t talked to DeSantis in months. It’s like, what? You haven’t talked to the governor of your it’s like it’s like first, how fucking weird is Rhonda Santos?

Like, you’re not even checking in with him. He’s a governor. You’re the senator, like, of the of the same state. You would think that you would be foreign for president, like, that’s very strange. And then it’s like yesterday, you see there’s this problem in South Florida that no one is dealing with about how there’s this gas shortage.

And your responses, I’m gonna send this weird Twitter video, not like, hey, maybe I should call Ron. And or so, Steve, he’s gonna do something about this. I mean, it’s just, like, it it shows the performative asset affinity and, like, the whole WWE mess of our politics right now. The like, that that just doesn’t even occur to Marco in Iran anymore. Yeah.

There are people who, like, handle things like

Yes. There are phone numbers you

can call if you are a United States senator to deal with.

To hear that is the point of being a senator. Right? Getting the most retweets, I think.

Because we’re all so online. Hey, I have to mention you’re not my party this week. I haven’t had enough bandwidth to be able to deal with all of this, you know, new third party buzz, the no labels folks, by the way, that they’re emailing me, they’re sending me all this stuff. You know, these are the folks that are trying to get on the ballot, you know, to have a sort of an independent and and I don’t know what they’ve contacted you, but it’s like they, you know, I was like, Charlie, if you wanna sit down and talk about our plans, it’s like, yeah, no. I just understand that almost everything you’re saying is completely delusional when it is not completely counterproductive.

So you did a whole piece on my party. You’re not a fan of the third party buzz. I

mean, in theory, there are third party things I like. You know, the McMullen thing didn’t work out, but I thought it was worth a try. You know? I think that there have been certain places, certain states, certain times where third parties work. The problem is, is that Donald Trump is the leading candidate in twenty twenty four and, like, we need to deal with that.

And I think that if you’re not in politics, the new labels people will get to them in a second. Like, are just, you know, ego maniacs and, you know, want to raise money from gullible donors and, you know, potentially have a notorious motives, but I think might just be stupid. This

doesn’t distinguish them from many of That’s

true. But they have that they have that common disease that is easy to identify for those who have been around. But if there are regular people out there, And I get questions for them when I do events, and I I understand that’s, like, why couldn’t we have a third party? Like, why it is old? Like, like, like, Trump is?

Insane, like, shouldn’t we have a better option than these two guys? And, like, that does make sense on one level. So I wanted to do a longer video for now my party, like, explaining why. Actually, it’s the inverse of that. And that in our system, the third party is strongest when the two parties seem similar.

Right? In, you know, proactively in any states, but the closest he got is the year that Clinton runs as a Southern Democrat that, you know, DLC Democrat and H. W. Bush is running. It’s a, you know, fairly moderate Republican.

Right? And it’s like, oh, we don’t feel represented. The more populist kind of Trumpy type voters back then. And then, you know, random folks that Perot added onto the side. So, like, that made sense because the stakes were low.

You know? It’s like, if you were like, gun to my head, I would have voted for h w, but, like, whatever if it’s Clinton. Like, you can go for a pro. Let’s give it a shot. Yeah.

If the stakes are existential. If you are a Democrat or a a never Trumper who, like, looks at Trump and says our democracy could end if it’s Trump, well, you’re logically not gonna wanna throw your vote away. For a third party person. If you were a deranged trumper who thinks that the election was stolen from Donald Trump and the Joe Biden has dementia, and is running a pedophile ring, well, you’re not gonna wanna throw away you’re opposed to a third party person. Like, when when that risk is on the other side, So our negative partisan chip has made it such that this is even though it might seem like a time where a third party would be strong, it’s actually the worst time to try to run a third party.

And obviously, if Trump’s on the other side, like, anything that that creates additional risk of an of a disaster. Trump second term is a bad idea. So want to kind of lay that out for folks. The no labels thing I think is particularly pernicious on this front. I’m not quite as panicked as some other people about this because I found the no labels people to be utterly incompetent.

And I’m just I’m not really certain talk about blowing up on the launching pad. I think that they might be blowing up on the launching pad a lot more realistically than DeSantis. But I’m glad other people are monitoring Matt and, you know, keeping a heat on. But it’d be a different thing than the ladies people said, hey, we’re coming to you and we’ve got a plan. We found the guy.

That can take votes from Donald Trump or the woman, then, okay, great. Come to me with that, but I don’t think that person exists.

At least not now. No. I don’t see it, and it does seem to be kind of an ego driven type thing where they’ve created their own little grip bubble. Okay. So as I’ve said many times in the past, I hate talking about mass shootings.

I hate getting into the doomed loop. But this week, I have to say, I this week feels extraordinary. Look, I understand. I mean, before we get into this, I mean, I understand that there are hair trigger shootings that take place in places like Chicago every single week. I get it.

I understand that there were thirty five people of all races who were shot in Chicago last weekend. This goes on all the time. And yet, this week felt different. I mean, the whole ringing the wrong doorbell getting shot, making a wrong turn, getting shot, and killed, getting in the wrong car and getting shot. Your basketball rolls into your neighbor’s yard and somebody shoots at a six year old girl.

I mean, it feels like we’re in this new chapter or maybe we’re just noticing what’s happening with our, you know, hair trigger American carnage. And it also feels like it’s more than just about guns. It is about guns. But, you know, it was interesting. I was listening to a lot of the commentary on this, and Unfortunately, everybody and, you know, Tim, you’ve been done this long time.

Everybody falls back on to their, you know, their prayers, and they keep going back to their same, you know, arguments. And I’m going like, okay, it is about the guns. It is about racism. But it’s also about other things that may be even worse than that the fact that we have created this culture of paranoia, of fear, of distress with guns, that results in this kind of I’m seeing somebody that I don’t know. They’re in my driveway.

I’m going to kill them. And this apparently has been happening more. You know, I mean, part of it is, I have a family who lives in Southern Sarah Longwell. You know, and I might get lost some day. I might turn into the wrong driveway.

Am I gonna get killed? Are they going to get killed? Can you imagine being In politics, we’re doing something else where you go door to door. And if you have the wrong color or you’re wearing the wrong clothes or you have the wrong hair, And we have all of these laws on the books that seem like a great idea either standard ground or the Castle doctrine that basically says that if you shouldn’t kill somebody in your house, the presumption is you’ve acted in self defense. So the the actual killing is objective.

Whether or not you’ll be held accountable for it is completely subjective now. So this week of American carnage, I guess it does turn out by the way that an armed society is not a polite society, that more guns does not equal, less crime, and that more good guys with guns is the way to go because Damn. I’m done.

Yeah. I mean, I’ve got two big thoughts on this. The first on just this societal part. Because I I wrote about this after the Tennessee shooting. I had a great conversation with Lori Johnson on the next level about this, that one of the Tennessee three, but we didn’t kind of get in the race as much as I wanted Thank you.

When we get as deep on this part as I wanted to, it’s just like figuring out a way to turn the temperature down. Because she represents Gloria, like, a decently can conservative district, actually. You know, the two Justin’s are in the deep blue parts of Nashville and Memphis respectively. And they’re just talking to her about the community and there is a lot of tenses and anxiety in these communities right now, you know, about the other political side. And I was happy here that, like, she didn’t hasn’t felt unsafe at this point, but you see this with other people where they’re like, you know, things are so hot.

That I’m worried that, you know, somebody’s gonna pop off. And some of these shootings that you’ve discussed are just random. But, you know, the the other kind of politicized, oh, you know, efforts of what we saw in

Texas was

Greg Abbott’s situation, you know, the guy that drives into the black arts matter protect And Abbott’s

making that much worse, of course.

Yeah. Exactly. So who is out there that’s lowering the temperature? And this is I I hate everybody’s like, oh, don’t blow sides us, but I do worry, like, I as I was doing my sub stack, I was doing it ask me anything like driving through Texas. I had some of our more, you know, liberal or progressive, you know, readers that were like, oh, be safe.

I’m worried about you in Texas. And, like, that makes me sad. Right? Like, people would feel that way. Like, there are really there’s a really wonderful people all over the country and that we are so focused now on the threats and the danger among us.

You know, you have Trump out there saying that, like, the real enemies are within, you know, not without. Obviously, he is exacerbating that way more than any democratic politician. But I I worry about this across the board. I just like everyone trying to figure out how to turn the temperature down. Now, that’s not gonna solve the gun problem though.

Like, that is just not. And the gun thing, like, this is we’ve gone round and round on this. So I’ll just say briefly, like, I always consider myself like a technocratic, pragmatic conservative. Right? Even when I was a conservative, I was like, you know, we need to be practical here.

And I just don’t know how you can look at the stats about American gun deaths. And say that, like, this system is working. And, like, the answer is more guns. Like, it’s just not. Like, our Ron DeSantis levels are on par only with, like, third world countries where they’re at war.

Like, we’re on par with the Emmett. You know, like, it’s crazy. And that you can have a kid like Ralph Yarls go into a guy’s driveway, go to their door, and get shot. That’s an unfathomable event in Sweden.

You

know, it’s an unfathomable event. And that should be an unfathomable event anywhere and it’s not here just because of the proliferation of guns. And now we’re in this place and looking at Tennessee and the aftermath where you can’t even discuss forget reforms about getting less guns out there. You can’t even discuss ways to license, to curb it. You can’t do anything.

I mean, there was Was it Louisville? Was it in the Kentucky shooting? There’s so many match shootings? I can’t remember anymore. The Kentucky the Louisville mayor’s, like, the gun that was used in the shooting is gonna be back on the street because by law in Kentucky, we

have to auction it off. It’s like what? That is madness. This is the madness that we’re having this proliferation of senseless random killings. And no one is exempt.

Now between the mass shootings and, you know, ringing the wrong doorbell It can be your kid. It can be you. It can happen to anyone. We are having this massive crisis. Tens of thousands of people getting killed.

You point out, we know, a level of violence that makes us look like Yemen. And yet, there is this complete total disconnect where one legislature after another is thinking, yeah, let’s disseminate more guns. Let’s make it easier to carry guns openly. Let’s make it easier for people to shoot people and have defenses for all of this. And so you you have the sixteen year old Ralph Yaro who shot by this eighty four year old white guy who apparently was mainlining Fox News in various paranoia.

I think what a surprise least surprising story of the week. But then you have the New York story. It’s twenty year old, you know, white girl who shot and killed by a sixty five year old because she and her friends pull into the wrong driveway. In Texas, you have these cheerleaders who are in their cheerleader outfit. Who are shot because they made a mistake and tried to get in the wrong car.

By

the way, which I’ve done a million times with Uber’s these days, like

in

the Uber world, in Uber car. Drexel, that’s my Uber, and you open the door.

Okay. So that that does not necessarily appear to be racially oriented. In Charlotte, North Carolina, this is, I think, one of the worst. Little girl, has her basketball roll into the neighbor’s yard, group of kids go to fetch it, Sky comes out Robert Lewis Singletary and starts shooting at the six year old girl and her father. I mean, what the

hell? Did you see the one in Florida with the two dams driving? And they get into a road rage incident, and they shoot at each other, and they both have their daughters in the car? And both of their daughters get hit. It’s like

standing

in their ground. Standing in the ground. As horrible as these ones where they’re shooting strangers are. Is there ever a story that more clearly debunks the notion that you are safer by carrying a weapon than the idea that these two Redneck dads shot at each other while their daughters were in the car. It’s unimaginable.

You know, but this is what happens. Like, you have guns everywhere and you get your temper hot, sometimes it’s gonna happen. Things are gonna escalate. Well, especially when you put the guns in hands of

people who have no background checks, no training whatsoever, And then are encouraged to regard everybody else as a danger. So this is the guy, the the grandson of the man that shot Ralph Yarl. Says, you know, I feel like a lot of people of that generation, the older generation are caught up in this twenty four hour news cycle of fear and turn away are perpetuated by some other news stations. And he was fully into that sitting and watching Fox News all day every day, blaring in his living room. And I think that stuff really kind of reinforces this negative view of minority groups.

Doesn’t necessarily lead people to be racist, but it reinforces and galvanizes racist people and their beliefs. Okay? It’s not all about race, but in this particular case, you get this guy who’s sitting and he’s watching, you know, this American carnage, one story after another, you know, the this nightmare world. They’re coming to get you. They are dangerous.

And Then there’s a knock at the door and he goes to the door and there’s a black man who is gigantic. He’s actually five foot eight.

One hundred and forty pounds. I you could have done the sociology as you experiment on this. He told the

cops the guy

was six feet. It’s like, no,

actually. Broken Bulwark man five foot eight hundred

one hundred and forty pounds. I mean, that’s like that’s like just skin and

bones. And he’s invading his castle. Actually, he doesn’t even open the door. So the guy starts shooting through the glass. I mean, it’s just holy cow.

Okay. So here’s an interesting little factoid. So I was listening to Lawrence O’Donnell last night. He had an historian on the historian of the old west, and he said, you know, it’s a myth that in the wild west, that people walked around, you know, in towns like Tombstone with, you know, all kinds of guns. In fact, back then, if you came into, you know, a town like, you know, deadwood or or or tombstone, you would have to surrender your guns.

You would have to go to the Marshall’s office of the sheriff’s office and, you know, sign in the guns and you’d get it received. Because none of these towns actually wanted to have, you know, heavily armed people, scaring off the business people. These little towns wanted to become actual cities, they were capitalist, and they knew that people wouldn’t be coming into the town to make their weekly or monthly deposits. If they thought they were going to be robbed. So in fact, they had very strict gun rules.

In fact, he showed a sign from like the eighteen eighties and you can see the design thing, you know, weapons strictly forbidden. You’re not allowed to do it. So this whole notion of everybody walking around packing heat was really after the fact where a lot of these towns were figuring, you know, how do we market ourselves to the tourists, you know. We’ll have to shoot out in the okay corral and we’ll reenact in eight times a day. Mhmm.

The reality was that even in the old premise

of the lost cause stuff, you know, that all those all these confederate statues, like, weren’t actually Exactly. Those like the next Yeah. It’s

sort of retrofitting the history, but I thought it was really interesting that the people in the west, if you would have told them about our Open Keri constitutional carry laws. Now they’d say, you’re not as your mind. Are you people crazy? The whole essence of civilization is that you do not want people walking around with guns, threatening other people, making them feel unsafe. So I really thought that was an interesting historical tidbit.

And you can look it up. I’m

gonna defer to the experts

on that one. Look it up. Okay. You and I have not had a chance to weigh in like everyone else has on the whole question of the Fox settlement. I am of two minds on all of this.

I do understand that Dominion made the right business decision. Their lawyers had a job to do. They did it. They did it well. It’s all big load of money.

It will have an effect and smartmatic is coming up. Smartmatic is saying that we want even more money from Fox. There are other lawsuits out there. But I just don’t think this changes the trajectory of disinformation. I don’t think that this was a victory for democracy.

And I am disappointed that we are not going to have a six week festival of Fox’s deployability, but I understand that there are other people who say, no, glass have full. This is good. This is the way it’s supposed to work. Where do you come down? I’m

more glad to have full on it. You know, I mean, it’s nice that Laughlin Murdoch’s, you know, great grandchild will have a couple of million less, you know, after the estate

tax. Pony. A smaller pony? Only four polo pony’s not not five what? Yep.

Wow. Wow.

Hi, guys. Just joking. But look, the dominion guys God bless. I really think, you know, had Fox just dealt with them the right way early, you know, they could have gotten out of this with a lot less money. And I think that the dominion guy ended up being out for blood because they were being slammed or John Poulos.

And I think they did the Lord’s work really with this discovery. And just an unbelievable amount of information has come out about Fox. You know, they have to do what’s right for their business. Seven hundred eighty million plus, good for them forgetting that. So I’m glass half full.

And I don’t think there was gonna be anything that happened to trial that changed the trajectory of Fox. The Fox that had a chance to change their own trajectory after January sixth They chose not to do so. They chose to go the other direction and double down to cut out NewsMax as Rupert Murdoch famously said in that email which we’ll always have now. It’s not about red or blue. It’s about green.

And for them, they need to attack to the megawatt to protect their right flank, and they were always gonna do that. You know, sure. It would’ve been nice to see doctor Sweat on the stand. But on the grand scheme of things, I think, Dominion did the Lord’s work, and I’m happy they got their payout.

Well, I’m happy they got their payout. I mean, I but I will admit to you. I wanted to do more and I wanted to see a trial, but that’s just me. I wanted the fact

that I wanted to Fair enough. Fair enough. I I’m one

of the festival of Shotten freud. But I do think that this whole question of, okay, you know, would the trial have changed the audience? Would it peel people off from the audience. And that’s certainly possible if the trial would have been like the January sixth committee, but Let’s go back to the January sixth committee. I think he did an absolutely masterful job.

I think that they documented it. They did everything they possibly could. And yet it’s hard to find that they had that much of an effect on Republican opinion. So I’m not sure that this would not because the Fox News audience does not hear about this or know about this is that they don’t really care about it. They don’t care.

The heart wants what it wants. They wanted what Fox gave them and continues to give them. And that’s the heart of it. Right? Yeah.

And

here’s how propaganda Bulwark, by the way. It’s about the old George w Bush line from that funeral about, you know, judging yourself by your best intentions and your enemies by your worst examples. This is how propaganda works. The people that watch Fox, that are daily Fox viewers, their brains have been consumed by every negative thing that a liberal has ever done real or imagined. Exaggerated to the tenth degree.

Right? And so if you have been conditioned to believe that Job Biden is really a socialist that might be complicit in a pedophile ring that is on the take from China, and that MSNBC and CNN in the New York Times are watching a host all lie with impunity Okay. Then if you learn that Fox also lied a couple times, it’s easy to say to yourself, well, at least they’re on my side. The other side is so horrible. Right?

It’s back to the third party conversation. It’s it’s this negative partisanship all the way down. Right? And so if these viewers have been conditioned, they don’t It’s not like the old days in the eighties where they might have had a rush or whenever a rush started late eighties, early nineties, but they still got you know, Tom Brokaw at night. You know?

Like, these people don’t have that. They’re in a total bubble where the only information they receive is that the liberals are evil. And so once you’ve decided that the Liberals are evil, it becomes very easy to justify it. So even if they do learn about the Tucker emails or whatever, you know, they come around. I don’t know how to fix that.

I think that’s an unsolvable problem. And I just I don’t think the trial would have fixed it, but maybe would have helped on the margins, but but, you know, that’s the that’s the main issue.

Okay. So we have to do something extremely unusual now. Okay. I have to acknowledge that you were right and I was wrong.

Oh. I don’t know what this is about, but I’m very thrilled to hear. It

discusses with Kara Swisher on yesterday’s podcast. The whole issue of the don’t say gay bill. I thought that perhaps you and other critics had gotten out over your skis a little bit by saying, you know, that it was this draconian attempt to don’t say gay, when in fact it was simply saying that we don’t teach this for first, second, and third grade. It’s just very young children. And you got a whole bunch of blowback care, I got a whole bunch of blowback.

And I’m sitting there thinking, okay, Maybe there was a little bit too much hype, but and this is my mia calpa. This week, you had the folks down on floor to say, hold my beer. We’re gonna take don’t say gay and we’re gonna make it apply through k twelve, you know, through all of grades who all the way through high school, including eighteen year old college seniors. And it’s like, wait, how many times mister Miller? Were we assured by the smart people that no, no, no, no.

This is simply about age appropriateness. So you are right I was wrong.

Thank you. I will be a a gracious winner in this one. And if you go back and read my very first article that Don Seguay, which was in February, I will leave of last year, the premise of that article was that when I first heard about this bill, I was like, come on. Yeah. That was my first instinct too.

It was just like yours. It was like, come on. Like, they couldn’t really be trying to push something through that is this backwards, this draconian, this on the nose — Yeah. — in twenty twenty two when I wrote that, it was just no way. And the reason why I think I was out in front on this and Piero, Ben Shapiro, and all these other assholes that are coming from me in the national review was because I called, you know, for my job days, I know a lot of Tallahassee folks.

So I called around, but I was like, what is true here? Is what the, you know, activist groups on the left saying true or is what, you know, the people that are, you know, shining to scientists’ words true. And to a person, they were all like, no. This is gonna pass. It’s as bad as they say.

And they did end up modifying one element of it to be a straight shooter here from no discussion about gays. That’s where the don’t say gay and moniker originally came from to no instruction. Right? So, I mean, this is a very marginal improvement, right, to just say that now a kid doesn’t have to worry if they talk about whatever gay stuff that they’re gonna, you know, get in trouble. That’s still a teacher now in eleventh grade.

I don’t even know how you Can you not talk about Loving versus Virginia, even Virginia based stuff? Like, how do you talk about sexual orientation in high school? Like, can you not talk about the don’t ask, don’t tell bill? How do how do social studies teachers do their work? How do English teachers that have, you know, that wanna read books, that have any kind of discussion of sexual orientation, teach those books.

Like, you can’t it was preposterous down the first grade, and the thing that always got me is I know because I have a five year old, I know kindergarteners. I just took TELUS actually into a new school yesterday for the first time to visit it, and the other kids look around. And it’s like, oh, hey, they’re two dads. And when I leave, you better believe. One of those little funky little kids who went to their teacher and said, hey, what’s the deal with that?

Is the teacher not just supposed to say? Hey, something. And we still have two dads. Like, that would be illegal in Florida. That would be the textbook definition of instruction.

And

that is outrageous and wrong and anyway, I hope you understand the seriousness of it. It’s also delusional. And Julien Sanchez makes really, really good point on the recent bill is that they are delusional. He said, look, the delusion here is even more ridiculous by the expansion. That students in twenty twenty three can somehow be shielded from the existence of these topics until the parents aim to breach them.

They can’t obviously, they can’t. It’s ludicrous. It’s like, look around at the world. Do you honestly think that you are now going to shield high school students from ever hearing about these things? This is a great substrate by Freddie DeBoer who says, yes, indeed, kids are going to learn about LGBTQ.

Issues sooner or later. It is pointless to try to keep them from finding out about the existence of homosexuality, of gay love, of gay marriage, of trans people, and gender. Nonconformity. They’re going to find out. They have smartphones usually much younger than they should.

They’re curious. The world is always a click away. It is foolish to try to prevent them. From learning about this stuff. And he says, look, I acknowledge that some of the reporting, you know, might have distorted and exaggerated what the Bulwark call for, but Now, you know, what Florida is saying is we’re going, you know, all the way on all of this.

And again, it’s like who are you trying to fool here? It’s all of this confusion of actually dealing with a problem with this need to wave your hands and engage in this sort of, you know, non virtue signaling of Rhonda said is saying the word woke, you know, twenty times and seven seconds or whatever it it was. But and yet, what fifty five percent of Republican voters now say it’s more important to do shit like this than it is to protect entitlements from being caught. Alright. What, you know, whatever.

What world, Charlie? Here we go. So you are going to get off this podcast and you are going to go meet your family and move into your new house in New Orleans. I’m

moving in, baby. It’s happening. Thank you, guys, for being along the ride with my

congratulations. Have a great weekend. And maybe You should try, like, sit back, open a beer, you know, go on Netflix or whatever, and you can you can download. You can you you can order. You can stream.

Street card name desire.

I got NBA playoffs on the docket this weekend, but I

will in July, I will I’ll make it a priority. Alright. Thank you, mister Miller. Fish. And thank you all for listening to this weekend’s Bulwark podcast.

I am Charlie Sykes. We will be back on Monday and I’ll be actually podcasting from an undisclosed location in a different time zone. And we’ll do this all over again. Hi. Bulwark podcast is produced by Katie Cooper and engineered and edited by Jason Brown.

Dissecting politics with exclusive interviews, commentary, and humor, useful with Katie Halper and Aaron Mate. Check out this story that comes via wedding planner Georgia Mitchell. I’d say that’s a deal

breaker. If you were to catch your part or being breastfed by their mother. The thing is that she’s here in the second hand. So — Right. — really The

responsible journalist didn’t you, Erin. It’s just an allegation. Yeah.

None of my sources up in front of the story. Right. So

Terrible if true. And definitely a deal breaker.

Useful idiots. Wherever you listen.