I was very much an institutionalist. I live and work in the Washington DC Milieux, and have for a few decades, and I know many fine people at the FBI, CIA, State Department, so on and so forth, but after what we have witnessed over these past several years, having to do with Trump, I no longer trust any of these institutions.
I was very much an institutionalist. I live and work in the Washington DC Milieux, and have for a few decades, and I know many fine people at the FBI, CIA, State Department, so on and so forth, but after what we have witnessed over these past several years, having to do with Trump, I no longer trust any of these institutions.
I do not trust these institutions. Period. They have become almost thoroughly corrupt. Who would have thought they rather moms and dads at school boards? Or traditional Catholics? My mother, an 87 year old Methodist, no longer trusts these institutions. If you lost me and my mother, you’ve lost half of America.
So what do you think is more probable: that tens of thousands of “deep state” operatives managed to rig a presidential election while leaving behind zero evidence that can hold up in court and keeping completely silent about it all this time, or that one politician (Trump) might be lying?
Austen this is what I don't get. It's Trump's hand picked staffers that testified against him during the Jan 6 committee hearings. It's been Trump's legal and campaign staff who have pled guilty or turned state's evidence in GA and elsewhere. These aren't deep state or Dems. They are people he himself chose to work with. Why doesn't that compute with his supporters? These weren't CIA, FBI, Secret Service, or State Department hacks on the stand. They were Trump's people. It's delusional to refuse to face these facts.
Too many to list, but this is a start: Barr, Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Cipillone, Philbin, Sydney Powell, Weisselberg, McConney, even Yvanka Trump testified she knew her father had lost to Biden.
No, there were others who did not testify, refused to testify or did not submit themselves to subpoenas. They were also all his handpicked people. Bannon even lost a court case and is awaiting sentencing. Still no Dems or deep staters.
Austin, my point is Trump is in the position he is, with all those indictments on the basis of his own people testifying against him. The Dems aren't giving evidence. The Deep State isn't giving evidence. His own people alone are giving all the evidence and they weren't all compelled. You can't compel people who won't honor subpoenas. The GOP committee on the Biden impeachment may have the fun of dealing with the same issue. My guess is they won't have a platoon of Biden's staff coming in before them to freely offer evidence to impeach him.
Here's the thing about being compelled to give evidence, and this shoudl bother you. The government is extremely powerful. No single person can stand up to the threats the government can level, most especially the federal government. There are people from J6 who are admitting to interference with a government procedure, along with months and years of prison, because they government is forcing them. Own up to this one count or we are coming after you on six. Your two years may become 20. This is one of the reason I no longer trust our judicial system. I think it is corrupt. I hvae a lot of sympathy now for black radicals back in the 60s and Muslims prosecuted during the horrific global war on terror. This is where left and right ought to come together.
Yes, the DOJ doesn't screw around and they have all the power. Michael Cohen has made this point endlessly, and as much as I find Cohen almost as big a narcissist as Trump, he's been dead on about this. I have a slightly different take as to why both right and left might come together on this aspect of the DOJ. J6'rs also got convicted with a ton of video evidence just like Chauvin did in the Floyd incident. Video may turn out to be one tool that takes some of the power away from the justice system and puts it in the hands of juries. Maybe. I remember back when Hoover was head of the FBI and I thought it was pretty much a rogue operation terrorizing even our presidents and seemingly accountable to no one, and I remember the Church committee hearings of the seventies that exposed the CIA's MKULTRA program. I was a big believer in the deep state back then. Now I'm a little more sanguine but could easily revert if Congress doesn't start taking their oversight responsibilities more seriously.
I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored. For instance, there is a radical black group in St. Louis that is under federal indictment for supposedly working for the Russians. Where once I might have applauded, now I have a lot of sympathy for them and their plight. My trust is shot.
People are going to jail for merely walking into the Capitol building, not damaging anything, and walking out. They got them on tape, certainly. But you are fine with that?
I presume you were/are in favor of releasing all the tapes?
I was very much an institutionalist. I live and work in the Washington DC Milieux, and have for a few decades, and I know many fine people at the FBI, CIA, State Department, so on and so forth, but after what we have witnessed over these past several years, having to do with Trump, I no longer trust any of these institutions.
So none of these “problems” existed prior to Trump? And you believe everything Trump says over anything these institutions say?
Oh of course they did. I think less so. But what happened to Trump made us realize these are deep seated problems.
And again, you believe everything Trump says over anything these institutions say? Even though you admitted earlier that all pols lie all the time?
I do not trust these institutions. Period. They have become almost thoroughly corrupt. Who would have thought they rather moms and dads at school boards? Or traditional Catholics? My mother, an 87 year old Methodist, no longer trusts these institutions. If you lost me and my mother, you’ve lost half of America.
And I notice you continue to dodge the question about believing everything Trump says. Do you?
I don't believe everything any pols says, including Trump.
So what do you think is more probable: that tens of thousands of “deep state” operatives managed to rig a presidential election while leaving behind zero evidence that can hold up in court and keeping completely silent about it all this time, or that one politician (Trump) might be lying?
Oh, do I believe the 2020 election was rigged? Oh yes, indeed, I do.
By whom?
The Democrats.
I asked you this earlier and you didn't answer so I'll ask again: Please name your news sources?
Times of London. The Bulwark. Wall Street Journal. New York Times. Washington Post. Various Substacks.
Which Substacks?
The Bulwark.
You read all those and yet you’ve completely buried your head in discredited Trumpist conspiracy theories?
Sumi...what are you watching on TV these days? Not news. entertainment?
Austen this is what I don't get. It's Trump's hand picked staffers that testified against him during the Jan 6 committee hearings. It's been Trump's legal and campaign staff who have pled guilty or turned state's evidence in GA and elsewhere. These aren't deep state or Dems. They are people he himself chose to work with. Why doesn't that compute with his supporters? These weren't CIA, FBI, Secret Service, or State Department hacks on the stand. They were Trump's people. It's delusional to refuse to face these facts.
Who are you thinking about?
Too many to list, but this is a start: Barr, Giuliani, Jenna Ellis, Cipillone, Philbin, Sydney Powell, Weisselberg, McConney, even Yvanka Trump testified she knew her father had lost to Biden.
They were required to, no?
No, there were others who did not testify, refused to testify or did not submit themselves to subpoenas. They were also all his handpicked people. Bannon even lost a court case and is awaiting sentencing. Still no Dems or deep staters.
I am not sure what point you are making. the committee was nothing but Nevers. Who do you think they were going to compel?
Austin, my point is Trump is in the position he is, with all those indictments on the basis of his own people testifying against him. The Dems aren't giving evidence. The Deep State isn't giving evidence. His own people alone are giving all the evidence and they weren't all compelled. You can't compel people who won't honor subpoenas. The GOP committee on the Biden impeachment may have the fun of dealing with the same issue. My guess is they won't have a platoon of Biden's staff coming in before them to freely offer evidence to impeach him.
Here's the thing about being compelled to give evidence, and this shoudl bother you. The government is extremely powerful. No single person can stand up to the threats the government can level, most especially the federal government. There are people from J6 who are admitting to interference with a government procedure, along with months and years of prison, because they government is forcing them. Own up to this one count or we are coming after you on six. Your two years may become 20. This is one of the reason I no longer trust our judicial system. I think it is corrupt. I hvae a lot of sympathy now for black radicals back in the 60s and Muslims prosecuted during the horrific global war on terror. This is where left and right ought to come together.
Yes, the DOJ doesn't screw around and they have all the power. Michael Cohen has made this point endlessly, and as much as I find Cohen almost as big a narcissist as Trump, he's been dead on about this. I have a slightly different take as to why both right and left might come together on this aspect of the DOJ. J6'rs also got convicted with a ton of video evidence just like Chauvin did in the Floyd incident. Video may turn out to be one tool that takes some of the power away from the justice system and puts it in the hands of juries. Maybe. I remember back when Hoover was head of the FBI and I thought it was pretty much a rogue operation terrorizing even our presidents and seemingly accountable to no one, and I remember the Church committee hearings of the seventies that exposed the CIA's MKULTRA program. I was a big believer in the deep state back then. Now I'm a little more sanguine but could easily revert if Congress doesn't start taking their oversight responsibilities more seriously.
I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored. For instance, there is a radical black group in St. Louis that is under federal indictment for supposedly working for the Russians. Where once I might have applauded, now I have a lot of sympathy for them and their plight. My trust is shot.
People are going to jail for merely walking into the Capitol building, not damaging anything, and walking out. They got them on tape, certainly. But you are fine with that?
I presume you were/are in favor of releasing all the tapes?