All too sad to be believed. MAGA House members are evidently poorly educated about economics, or don’t give (as A.B. Stoddard would say) a rat’s ass about their constituents’ wellbeing. They should lose their pay for twice as long as a shutdown goes on, then be fired for incompetence or better still sent into exile for attacks on the Ame…
All too sad to be believed. MAGA House members are evidently poorly educated about economics, or don’t give (as A.B. Stoddard would say) a rat’s ass about their constituents’ wellbeing. They should lose their pay for twice as long as a shutdown goes on, then be fired for incompetence or better still sent into exile for attacks on the American people. Their actions will once again cause our international credit rating to be downgraded--at a minimum--and some have opined that a shutdown could lead to a recession. Good luck with that. Maybe they will do so much damage that Trump will stand no chance of re-election.
You got me thinking - why do the Congress men and women still receive pay when the rest of the government employees don't( except for those "critical" jobs that can't be dropped). Do you consider their jobs as "critical" ? They can generally afford to miss pay checks, but maybe they would be less cavalier about shutting the government down if it had a real bearing on them.
Poorly educated, yes. I would stake a small fortune, if I had one, on there being a significant gap in IQ between Democrats and the GOP, from top to bottom. Education can’t fix a lack of curiosity, and a willingness to believe and promote lies.
Well that’s definitely true. And unfortunately it becomes a generational issue. But WHY do they have lower property taxes? Leader IQ versus Leader greed. Probably greed. Still, I’d sure love to have that comparison, but I can’t imagine an ethical way to conduct the study. Maybe by extrapolating from other existing data?
They have lower taxes because they don't like to share, or pay for nice things (most of their nice things came from pork barrel or block grants paid by a wealthier state).
Agree. And they don’t believe in the common good. I’ve met some who object to requirements for sidewalks in new developments, because it’s a bit too close to communism. Seriously.
Yet the MAGA House members, as the others, will continue to get paid despite the government shutdown, unlike their non-essential staff and so many others who are deemed lesser entities. Let that soak in. They will get theirs while we do without. The people who are driving the car over the cliff are getting their salary, pension, and benefits to do so, out of our pockets. They do it because they can, and because there are no consequences for them when they are in safe, sometimes gerrymandered districts which ensure no accountability for them other than what the history books later will have to say.
It's a great gig if you can get it, and if you don't care what happens to everyone else. Thankfully momma raised me better than that.
After Dems have free control of Congress, I wonder if they could be motivated to write legislation requiring future shut downs to apply to their own paychecks?
If they didn't do it before, I'm not optimistic that they would do so later. Sort of like the redistricting issue where I live -- it only becomes a priority when they are out of power and can't do anything about it. Had they acted sooner, we wouldn't be in the mess now. Perceived self-interest likely has a lot to do with it.
Me too; unfortunately I think Dems overshot the integrity goal when they dumped Al Franken. Fortunately he now has a weekly podcast which keeps him in the game. A brilliant and decent person, in my opinion.
But THEY are not driving a car over any cliff. That could be dangerous. They know that the car is programmed to drive over the cliff, want that to happen, and hope that the other guy will get the blame as they continue to bank their checks. No money for bread? Let'em eat cake.
I was the unwilling participant of 11 government shutdowns, some in the military and some as a civilian. I didn't have a choice and had to go to work and actually DO WORK through all of them, and it was never certain that I would get paid once things started up. If/when the government shuts down, these morons need to show up to work 24/7 until they do their jobs and get government funded and working again. They do not get overtime, they can't work on "pet projects which have no deadlines" (other than being voted out during an election), and they can only have scheduled bathroom breaks and 30 minutes each for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Any shower breaks will come out of their mealtime totals.
These are obviously NOT essential personnel if they have no requirement to show progress on their primary function at this time. Let's see how many of their constituents are contractors and actually open their mouths to push for some sanity and professionalism from their "representatives" when their bills start piling up. Could someone please call the Gazpacho Police to have them arrested for fraud and malfeasance?
I support going back to the original payment scheme: Delegates came at their own (or their constituents')charges as a service to the country. Nobody knew this part-time job would become a millionaire status gig.
You got it. Why don’t we worry about malpractice in government? I have friends and relatives who were affected as you were. Nobody was in an income bracket to take the hit. The worry and uncertainty was horrible for them.
I am with you 100%. I don’t understand people who take an oath to uphold the Constitution, and know they are representing other people--not to mention the pay--and then are so vile that they fulfill none of their responsibilities. I wonder if Matt Gaetz is still under investigation for sex-trafficking and breaking the Mann Act?
There used to be a local TV show in my town called Life Without Shame. It was cringy, and foreshadowed a lot of what we have fed to our screens today, but I can't look at a Republican and not think of that title as a fitting title or lede for anything about them.
When you run on culture wars and that" the government spends too much", actual knowledge of how government works and the ins-and-outs of the economy are not requirements for office.
Such a disconnect. Just try getting through to people that the government and business have different funding, methods, goals and shareholders (aka we the people).
So the people who like to say the government should be run like a business first didn't want to pay the bills and now want to shut the whole thing down.
Sure, why not? I wonder what bankruptcy chapter would apply? The one where the entity is wound down and sold off or the one where the entity is reorganized and creditors may or may not get any money?
The case for Trump running for President in 2016 was that the government should be run like a business and that he was a successful businessman. The NY Civil case has now proven that the only thing Trump was ever successful at was FRAUD. Also, if the US Government were run like a business we would cut our losses by stopping to put more money into the red states than we get back.
Did they need fraud cases to show that. How about the bankrupt casinos? He even built casinos to compete with the ones he already owned. Doesn't sound like a smart business move to me.
It only works because his intended audience has zero critical thinking skills. And it will never cease to amaze that that someone as wealthy as Bannon has no gratitude for living in a country that's allowed him to do as well as he has.
I think “flooding the zone” also works because it is overwhelming our federal law enforcement capabilities. Trump is only now getting called on the carpet for transgressions going back decades. Not much of it is new, but rather the resources are now focused on him. So much grift, so few investigators. Probably applies to many GOP sugar daddies.
I'm guessing that in any other administration, Bannon would not have gotten a security clearance like he did with Trump. The fact that he's still a free man and allowed to do what he's doing stuns me.
I have said this before and will say it again: the MAGA folks--the Steve Bannon, Trump, etc. cadre--are doing work that the Chinese and Russians have long wanted: Destroy the norms of a democratic society and undermine confidence in every democratic institution.
In my opinion, there is a bright through line from Trump asking for emails to this absurd hearing: DNC hack > Pizzagate > QAnon > "the Steal" > "the Biden Crime Family."
The stakes for Putin now are far higher than in 2016.
And yet Bannon walks free. The wheels of Justice are definitely grinding slowly for that one. He might succumb to his cooties before he meets Lady Justice.
I wonder if all of the base really knows the consequences of their Representatives’ actions. In the moment chaos may sound great until people don’t receive paychecks, child assistance is stopped, workers are furloughed or forced to work for delayed pay (unlike members of Congress). Do they all know what the economic consequences could be globally?
No. It would take repeated shut downs over years to get that point across. Back when the California budget could only get passed by a 2/3 vote of the legislature, shut downs or furloughs of workers would start in July and continue sometimes for two months. It affects more than just those who worked for the state government directly. Vendors that did business with the state didn't get paid...one governor tried paying with "vouchers" that weren't actually money, but that was a gesture really, nothing that actually helped them. After several years of this, the voters passed a Constitutional amendment to end that supermajority requirement.
The base will be hurt, and maybe surprised, as they blame Biden. Their representatives will have achieved their chaos goal without a scratch. Maybe next election will have consequences, but unlikely.
Maybe. But even Fox is getting annoyed with the extreme right. They know it isn’t a good look. And some of their hosts are rolling their eyes at the Biden impeachment failure.
Yes, I think the subtle shift in the wind at Fox is part of my own shift in optimism, which actually entered my awareness just yesterday. I’ve been trying to dissect it for authenticity. And I even stated it publicly here, in a very bold move!
This is the third or fourth shutdown since the 90s. The most recent was only 4+ years ago. Some people may be able to argue ignorance, but at this point it's just apathy and malice
They seem a bit confused; every single Director of the FBI has been a Republican. Every single one. And yet the GOP is picking a fight with them as an enemy. I guess they thought their own FBI guys would follow the unofficial playbook and ignore the rule of law for their own kind.
Yep. They are Trump's devotees. There are hangers-on to the Republican label, but they have no principles in common that are not abandoned in a heartbeat for His Majesty, Trump.
That's exactly the problem. Not all of them realize that "law and order" was taken as heartfelt by a lot of their fellow travelers. They long for the good ol' days when the feds would monitor MLK Jr.
The more violence that is threatened and meted out to federal law enforcement, the clearer it will become that the real domestic terror threat is MAGA.
Of course you are right. But not all those who would be affected this time were affected last time. We were also not in the middle of supporting a war. And we did not get a credit downgrade as a result. This Congress will be responsible for two downgrades. That is serious and unprecedented.
I stand corrected. We were in Afghanistan last time. That was Biden’s big mistake in my book. I don’t think we should have withdrawn all personnel. And we should never have done it the way we did.
He didn’t have a lot of choice. Trump made the agreement and the timeline. Ive also heard it suggested that the intel assessment was completely imaginary
I think the military is going to be royally pissed off. Not only will they have no pay I’m sure a lot of them have also heard Trump’s statements about people killed in war being losers, or that McCain, a real hero, was a jerk. And down the line Trump’s remarks about General Milley--someone known widely by the rank and file--should be “hung” (not standard English: a painting is hung, a person is hanged). And what does Trump think would have happened to Europe or even the US without those people in uniform being willing to lay down their lives. Of course he knows no history or geography.
I agree. And I welcome them to their own tipping point; better late than never. I mean, Trumps egregious disrespect of the military is very old news, starting with imaginary bone spurs that kept him out of Viet Nam.
If people in their opinion silos suggest that cities and racial minorities are suffering more they 'real Americans', they will be absolutely fine with the shut-down. Otherwise, they will blame Obama.
Perhaps they need to be shown what suffering is like for others. MTG’s town drove non-whites out some years ago as I understand it. You can’t understand what you don’t know. Some of the ability to be oblivious is down to MAGA media. DeSantis is helping to amplify those views. I continue to hope someone somewhere will figure out ways to reach those that non-MAGA media doesn’t represent. Not trying was got Germany to find it was led by Nazis. That is simply unacceptable.
I wish I shared your optimism. But if past history is any guide, the ONLY way conservatives in general and MAGA in particular see a problem as relevant is if it directly affects them or people close to them. It was only when Rs understood that they knew or were related to gay people that they saw gay people as deserving of full status as humans and citizens. They absolutely do not care about the suffering of an outgroup.
As a matter of fact, many Republicans are not so doctrinaire about abortion these days. Which is why maximalist measures put up to a popular vote in Kansas and Wisconsin were defeated. These were red states, so Republican voters helped defeat them.
I'd love to know if this is due to MAGA and the right-wing in general placing more of an emphasis on respecting of persons (only people who are like me or who I know personally are reliable witness, and also can be given the benefit of the doubt) over respecting of behaviors. This would also be a root of the emphasis on personal loyalty (which appears to be more prevalent on the right).
Well, it is not like this has not happened before, also because of the Obstructionist wing of what once was the Grand Old Party. Why wouldn't anyone who pays the least bit of attention to what is happening in Washington know that? OK, that lets most of the base off the hook, but some have to be paying attention, don't they? Or do they just get the Readers' Digest version from Fox and Tucker?
Surely not everyone is so trapped that they don’t compare media sources. Some of them must hear anti-MAGA viewpoints from friends and relatives. The Trumpies may reject those ideas out of hand, but surely some will be curious.
Germany, 1932: Surely it can't happen here. Oh, it's happening here alright. The First Amendment has become America's cup of hemlock as the dis-information industry makes billions from the Dunning-Kruger crowd.
I will happily give you a point by point view of Hitler’s rise and Trump’s rise. You will be shocked. I think I may post about it in my Substack space.
I've been bleating about the dis-information industry for several years now and any progress toward reining in the bile hiding behind the First Amendment has been mostly ignored until recently. However, no substantive courses of action have been suggested. Goebbels only needed about 30% of the German voters to believe his propaganda for Hitler to take control legally. I'd say that America is about there. James Madison would be appalled, I believe, at the current state of our "well-informed electorate".
Nice to meet you, Alexandra, you “sweet summer child”. But seriously, I used to think the base was penetrable to facts from reliable sources, but no longer. Comparing media sources is definitely not their thing. But it’s a lovely thought.
I try not to be unrealistic. But people did turn away from Trump after Jan. 6. Cassidy Hutchinson explained that she felt really torn about Trumpworld. She knew what was happening ran counter to all her deeply held beliefs, but she was a part of something she had come to feel was central to her life. People actually do leave cults despite being subjected to threats and all manner of emotional distress--but it can be done. Ok--these are outliers, but every vote counts when margins are thin.
Isn’t Hutchison amazing? Listening to interviews with her caused me to think of my own past, and I recognized times when I failed to follow my own moral compass in favor of belonging to a group.
I like your optimism. I wonder if leaving the cult of Trump will become a stampede, once it gets started. I wouldn’t rule it out.
I have the utmost admiration for C. Hutchinson. To hold to your deeply held convictions when everyone is against you and you are being threatened with violence is magnificent.
What I’d give to have had her qualities in my mid twenties. Or even now, at age 71! I hope she has a future in public service. Those like her don’t come around very often.
Heh. I meant my MIL’s virulently anti-Trump son, although my son is almost a match for his father on that subject.
What I really mean is my MIL has had 60 solid years without a serious counterpoint to the carefully cultivated religious right propaganda/worldview; through her late husband, her tv habits, and through her church friends.
Until she lived with us I don’t think she had any reason to question what she was hearing, so our different viewpoints are hard for her to grasp.
Look, we have to try. Sitting back and throwing up our hands won’t make us feel better if the worst comes to pass. I try to listen and ask non-confrontational questions. Sometimes alternatives break through. Some MAGA people are too frightening for me to engage in conversation. It is not ok on any level to let an unglued dictator come back into power. This time there would be no adults in the room. It is a terrifying prospect.
I would make the case that they don't, because if they properly understood the consequences of their votes, they wouldn't elect the likes of Comer and Jordan to begin. And even if it's the worst case scenario and all those services that people depend on grind to a halt, these people would find someone else to blame for it.
To put it another way, while Bulwark-style conservatism still believes in personal responsibility, MAGA believes in scapegoating. That will never change.
I’m afraid that for many what you say is true. I continue to hope that there are some people who are able to question what is happening. I imagine that most of them will shift the blame. People in cults (Heaven’s Gate, Jim Jones) can’t always see when their lives are threatened.
All too sad to be believed. MAGA House members are evidently poorly educated about economics, or don’t give (as A.B. Stoddard would say) a rat’s ass about their constituents’ wellbeing. They should lose their pay for twice as long as a shutdown goes on, then be fired for incompetence or better still sent into exile for attacks on the American people. Their actions will once again cause our international credit rating to be downgraded--at a minimum--and some have opined that a shutdown could lead to a recession. Good luck with that. Maybe they will do so much damage that Trump will stand no chance of re-election.
You got me thinking - why do the Congress men and women still receive pay when the rest of the government employees don't( except for those "critical" jobs that can't be dropped). Do you consider their jobs as "critical" ? They can generally afford to miss pay checks, but maybe they would be less cavalier about shutting the government down if it had a real bearing on them.
Poorly educated, yes. I would stake a small fortune, if I had one, on there being a significant gap in IQ between Democrats and the GOP, from top to bottom. Education can’t fix a lack of curiosity, and a willingness to believe and promote lies.
I think you may find that States with lower property taxes have much weaker schools. I don’t think it is an innate IQ issue.
This doesn't negate your contention, but many people, including me, have learned many things since school. One huge facet of innate IQ is curiosity.
Well that’s definitely true. And unfortunately it becomes a generational issue. But WHY do they have lower property taxes? Leader IQ versus Leader greed. Probably greed. Still, I’d sure love to have that comparison, but I can’t imagine an ethical way to conduct the study. Maybe by extrapolating from other existing data?
They have lower taxes because they don't like to share, or pay for nice things (most of their nice things came from pork barrel or block grants paid by a wealthier state).
Agree. And they don’t believe in the common good. I’ve met some who object to requirements for sidewalks in new developments, because it’s a bit too close to communism. Seriously.
Yet the MAGA House members, as the others, will continue to get paid despite the government shutdown, unlike their non-essential staff and so many others who are deemed lesser entities. Let that soak in. They will get theirs while we do without. The people who are driving the car over the cliff are getting their salary, pension, and benefits to do so, out of our pockets. They do it because they can, and because there are no consequences for them when they are in safe, sometimes gerrymandered districts which ensure no accountability for them other than what the history books later will have to say.
It's a great gig if you can get it, and if you don't care what happens to everyone else. Thankfully momma raised me better than that.
After Dems have free control of Congress, I wonder if they could be motivated to write legislation requiring future shut downs to apply to their own paychecks?
Given how our politics have evolved, a good percentage of congress people can afford not to be paid.
Which makes them look even more like Scrooge. To those paying attention, anyway.
If they didn't do it before, I'm not optimistic that they would do so later. Sort of like the redistricting issue where I live -- it only becomes a priority when they are out of power and can't do anything about it. Had they acted sooner, we wouldn't be in the mess now. Perceived self-interest likely has a lot to do with it.
You’re probably right. But I have a fresh sense that Dems are seeing “integrity” as a political weapon, if not a personal virtue. What a concept.
Can't it be both a virtue and a weapon? I see certain types of politicians flaunting their family values for both purposes.
The “family values” message of the GOP is similar, if only it was authentic.
I'm all for playing the integrity and honesty cards. It is the right move in my eyes. If enough people are willing to listen.
Me too; unfortunately I think Dems overshot the integrity goal when they dumped Al Franken. Fortunately he now has a weekly podcast which keeps him in the game. A brilliant and decent person, in my opinion.
I'm all for it too, the problem is that too many people don't use their brains and so you get Menendez = Trump = They're all corrupt!
How did I miss this? It looks very recent. Clever, naming it for McCarthy. Maybe it will succeed someday? Thanks for sharing the link, Cranky.
But THEY are not driving a car over any cliff. That could be dangerous. They know that the car is programmed to drive over the cliff, want that to happen, and hope that the other guy will get the blame as they continue to bank their checks. No money for bread? Let'em eat cake.
I was the unwilling participant of 11 government shutdowns, some in the military and some as a civilian. I didn't have a choice and had to go to work and actually DO WORK through all of them, and it was never certain that I would get paid once things started up. If/when the government shuts down, these morons need to show up to work 24/7 until they do their jobs and get government funded and working again. They do not get overtime, they can't work on "pet projects which have no deadlines" (other than being voted out during an election), and they can only have scheduled bathroom breaks and 30 minutes each for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Any shower breaks will come out of their mealtime totals.
These are obviously NOT essential personnel if they have no requirement to show progress on their primary function at this time. Let's see how many of their constituents are contractors and actually open their mouths to push for some sanity and professionalism from their "representatives" when their bills start piling up. Could someone please call the Gazpacho Police to have them arrested for fraud and malfeasance?
I support going back to the original payment scheme: Delegates came at their own (or their constituents')charges as a service to the country. Nobody knew this part-time job would become a millionaire status gig.
You got it. Why don’t we worry about malpractice in government? I have friends and relatives who were affected as you were. Nobody was in an income bracket to take the hit. The worry and uncertainty was horrible for them.
Yeah. Something needs to be done about Congress. As MTG says, it's a real peach tree dish.
Heres and idea.No pay for the House Republicans during the shutdown.They may figure it out then.
I am with you 100%. I don’t understand people who take an oath to uphold the Constitution, and know they are representing other people--not to mention the pay--and then are so vile that they fulfill none of their responsibilities. I wonder if Matt Gaetz is still under investigation for sex-trafficking and breaking the Mann Act?
There used to be a local TV show in my town called Life Without Shame. It was cringy, and foreshadowed a lot of what we have fed to our screens today, but I can't look at a Republican and not think of that title as a fitting title or lede for anything about them.
When you run on culture wars and that" the government spends too much", actual knowledge of how government works and the ins-and-outs of the economy are not requirements for office.
Knowledge of how government works is an impediment to this kind of foolishness.
True. I guess that speaks to the need for Civics lessons in school.
"The government should be run like a business!!1!"
Okay. What happens to grazing fees in that scenario?
Such a disconnect. Just try getting through to people that the government and business have different funding, methods, goals and shareholders (aka we the people).
Good luck with that!
So the people who like to say the government should be run like a business first didn't want to pay the bills and now want to shut the whole thing down.
I don't think they understand how business works.
Or they understand how Trump does business. He was notorious for not wanting to pay his contractors.
And bankruptcy. So I suppose that's next.
Sure, why not? I wonder what bankruptcy chapter would apply? The one where the entity is wound down and sold off or the one where the entity is reorganized and creditors may or may not get any money?
Whichever benefits the moneyed interests the most.
The case for Trump running for President in 2016 was that the government should be run like a business and that he was a successful businessman. The NY Civil case has now proven that the only thing Trump was ever successful at was FRAUD. Also, if the US Government were run like a business we would cut our losses by stopping to put more money into the red states than we get back.
So now the case for Trump is that the US should be run as a fraud, a delusion, a fantasy and this is just what he’s running on.
Did they need fraud cases to show that. How about the bankrupt casinos? He even built casinos to compete with the ones he already owned. Doesn't sound like a smart business move to me.
So, Trump has truly made the GOP in his image. They are all fraudsters.
Also, quite a lot of businesses fail in their first few years.
Never forget that MAGA is also doing the bidding of their base, which wants the chaos and destruction.
"Flooding the zone with shit"as steve Bannon once opined.
It only works because his intended audience has zero critical thinking skills. And it will never cease to amaze that that someone as wealthy as Bannon has no gratitude for living in a country that's allowed him to do as well as he has.
I think “flooding the zone” also works because it is overwhelming our federal law enforcement capabilities. Trump is only now getting called on the carpet for transgressions going back decades. Not much of it is new, but rather the resources are now focused on him. So much grift, so few investigators. Probably applies to many GOP sugar daddies.
Bannon is a total cynic. He loves chaos and influence.
Also makes you wonder what kind of shenanigans he might have been up to when he was a naval officer...
I'm guessing that in any other administration, Bannon would not have gotten a security clearance like he did with Trump. The fact that he's still a free man and allowed to do what he's doing stuns me.
I have said this before and will say it again: the MAGA folks--the Steve Bannon, Trump, etc. cadre--are doing work that the Chinese and Russians have long wanted: Destroy the norms of a democratic society and undermine confidence in every democratic institution.
Absolutely. I have studied Russia as the bulk of my life’s work. They are laughing.
In my opinion, there is a bright through line from Trump asking for emails to this absurd hearing: DNC hack > Pizzagate > QAnon > "the Steal" > "the Biden Crime Family."
The stakes for Putin now are far higher than in 2016.
The groundwork laid in that time is all he needs. He can sit back and watch it unfold. Except for aid to Ukraine he's got what he wanted.
'Russia, Russia, Russia" doesn't begin to capture it.
I consider Bannon a domestic enemy of the United States, and should be dealt with as such.
And yet Bannon walks free. The wheels of Justice are definitely grinding slowly for that one. He might succumb to his cooties before he meets Lady Justice.
I think his time is coming.
He's going to have his "time in the barrel" soon.
I hope so.
It's so obvious. I couldn't agree more. Can add Tucker Carlson and Michael Flynn to that list.
And Rupert Murdoch
I wonder if all of the base really knows the consequences of their Representatives’ actions. In the moment chaos may sound great until people don’t receive paychecks, child assistance is stopped, workers are furloughed or forced to work for delayed pay (unlike members of Congress). Do they all know what the economic consequences could be globally?
No. It would take repeated shut downs over years to get that point across. Back when the California budget could only get passed by a 2/3 vote of the legislature, shut downs or furloughs of workers would start in July and continue sometimes for two months. It affects more than just those who worked for the state government directly. Vendors that did business with the state didn't get paid...one governor tried paying with "vouchers" that weren't actually money, but that was a gesture really, nothing that actually helped them. After several years of this, the voters passed a Constitutional amendment to end that supermajority requirement.
The base will be hurt, and maybe surprised, as they blame Biden. Their representatives will have achieved their chaos goal without a scratch. Maybe next election will have consequences, but unlikely.
Maybe. But even Fox is getting annoyed with the extreme right. They know it isn’t a good look. And some of their hosts are rolling their eyes at the Biden impeachment failure.
Yes, I think the subtle shift in the wind at Fox is part of my own shift in optimism, which actually entered my awareness just yesterday. I’ve been trying to dissect it for authenticity. And I even stated it publicly here, in a very bold move!
Could you forward your comment or repeat it for me? I’m really interested.
I’ve never done this before, so here goes. Sorry I took so long - real life interrupted my musings. I hope the link works.
https://open.substack.com/pub/morningshots/p/comers-fiasco?r=9qs5q&utm_campaign=comment-list-share-cta&utm_medium=web&comments=true&commentId=40962028
This is the third or fourth shutdown since the 90s. The most recent was only 4+ years ago. Some people may be able to argue ignorance, but at this point it's just apathy and malice
I think I heard yesterday that ALL those shutdowns were via the GOP. Unsurprising.
Yup, only happens when they have at least one house of Congress. They even shutdown when they have the White House!!
They seem a bit confused; every single Director of the FBI has been a Republican. Every single one. And yet the GOP is picking a fight with them as an enemy. I guess they thought their own FBI guys would follow the unofficial playbook and ignore the rule of law for their own kind.
Yep. They are Trump's devotees. There are hangers-on to the Republican label, but they have no principles in common that are not abandoned in a heartbeat for His Majesty, Trump.
Logic doesn’t seem to be necessary.
It’s definitely in short supply.
That's exactly the problem. Not all of them realize that "law and order" was taken as heartfelt by a lot of their fellow travelers. They long for the good ol' days when the feds would monitor MLK Jr.
The more violence that is threatened and meted out to federal law enforcement, the clearer it will become that the real domestic terror threat is MAGA.
Maybe they are seeing the light, when it’s a spotlight placed 2 inches from their eyes . . . for several days. Okay, years.
Of course you are right. But not all those who would be affected this time were affected last time. We were also not in the middle of supporting a war. And we did not get a credit downgrade as a result. This Congress will be responsible for two downgrades. That is serious and unprecedented.
Not following you on the, "We were also not in the middle of supporting a war."
The last three shutdowns were in the middle of US wars.
I stand corrected. We were in Afghanistan last time. That was Biden’s big mistake in my book. I don’t think we should have withdrawn all personnel. And we should never have done it the way we did.
He didn’t have a lot of choice. Trump made the agreement and the timeline. Ive also heard it suggested that the intel assessment was completely imaginary
This time the military is affected; last time they weren’t. I wonder if that detail will erode support for Trumpism/MAGA in the ranks of the military.
I think the military is going to be royally pissed off. Not only will they have no pay I’m sure a lot of them have also heard Trump’s statements about people killed in war being losers, or that McCain, a real hero, was a jerk. And down the line Trump’s remarks about General Milley--someone known widely by the rank and file--should be “hung” (not standard English: a painting is hung, a person is hanged). And what does Trump think would have happened to Europe or even the US without those people in uniform being willing to lay down their lives. Of course he knows no history or geography.
I agree. And I welcome them to their own tipping point; better late than never. I mean, Trumps egregious disrespect of the military is very old news, starting with imaginary bone spurs that kept him out of Viet Nam.
If people in their opinion silos suggest that cities and racial minorities are suffering more they 'real Americans', they will be absolutely fine with the shut-down. Otherwise, they will blame Obama.
Perhaps they need to be shown what suffering is like for others. MTG’s town drove non-whites out some years ago as I understand it. You can’t understand what you don’t know. Some of the ability to be oblivious is down to MAGA media. DeSantis is helping to amplify those views. I continue to hope someone somewhere will figure out ways to reach those that non-MAGA media doesn’t represent. Not trying was got Germany to find it was led by Nazis. That is simply unacceptable.
I wish I shared your optimism. But if past history is any guide, the ONLY way conservatives in general and MAGA in particular see a problem as relevant is if it directly affects them or people close to them. It was only when Rs understood that they knew or were related to gay people that they saw gay people as deserving of full status as humans and citizens. They absolutely do not care about the suffering of an outgroup.
How does this explain their explicit oppression of women> They certainly know a few of them.
As a matter of fact, many Republicans are not so doctrinaire about abortion these days. Which is why maximalist measures put up to a popular vote in Kansas and Wisconsin were defeated. These were red states, so Republican voters helped defeat them.
I'd love to know if this is due to MAGA and the right-wing in general placing more of an emphasis on respecting of persons (only people who are like me or who I know personally are reliable witness, and also can be given the benefit of the doubt) over respecting of behaviors. This would also be a root of the emphasis on personal loyalty (which appears to be more prevalent on the right).
The real base neither knows nor cares. Shut the whole shebang down until their savior gets re-elected, would be their druthers.
Well, it is not like this has not happened before, also because of the Obstructionist wing of what once was the Grand Old Party. Why wouldn't anyone who pays the least bit of attention to what is happening in Washington know that? OK, that lets most of the base off the hook, but some have to be paying attention, don't they? Or do they just get the Readers' Digest version from Fox and Tucker?
Surely not everyone is so trapped that they don’t compare media sources. Some of them must hear anti-MAGA viewpoints from friends and relatives. The Trumpies may reject those ideas out of hand, but surely some will be curious.
Germany, 1932: Surely it can't happen here. Oh, it's happening here alright. The First Amendment has become America's cup of hemlock as the dis-information industry makes billions from the Dunning-Kruger crowd.
I will happily give you a point by point view of Hitler’s rise and Trump’s rise. You will be shocked. I think I may post about it in my Substack space.
I've been bleating about the dis-information industry for several years now and any progress toward reining in the bile hiding behind the First Amendment has been mostly ignored until recently. However, no substantive courses of action have been suggested. Goebbels only needed about 30% of the German voters to believe his propaganda for Hitler to take control legally. I'd say that America is about there. James Madison would be appalled, I believe, at the current state of our "well-informed electorate".
Nice to meet you, Alexandra, you “sweet summer child”. But seriously, I used to think the base was penetrable to facts from reliable sources, but no longer. Comparing media sources is definitely not their thing. But it’s a lovely thought.
I try not to be unrealistic. But people did turn away from Trump after Jan. 6. Cassidy Hutchinson explained that she felt really torn about Trumpworld. She knew what was happening ran counter to all her deeply held beliefs, but she was a part of something she had come to feel was central to her life. People actually do leave cults despite being subjected to threats and all manner of emotional distress--but it can be done. Ok--these are outliers, but every vote counts when margins are thin.
Isn’t Hutchison amazing? Listening to interviews with her caused me to think of my own past, and I recognized times when I failed to follow my own moral compass in favor of belonging to a group.
I like your optimism. I wonder if leaving the cult of Trump will become a stampede, once it gets started. I wouldn’t rule it out.
I have the utmost admiration for C. Hutchinson. To hold to your deeply held convictions when everyone is against you and you are being threatened with violence is magnificent.
A real American hero
Today I get to start reading her book!
What I’d give to have had her qualities in my mid twenties. Or even now, at age 71! I hope she has a future in public service. Those like her don’t come around very often.
Oh some of us relatives are vociferous on alternative viewpoints to the Fox/MAGA/Xn TV takes.
Great, but does it have any positive or ameliorative effect? If not, thanks anyway for trying.
Who ya gonna believe -- Your son or your favorite televangelist?
Well, ya clearly know your son better, so that helps with the answer one way or the other.
Heh. I meant my MIL’s virulently anti-Trump son, although my son is almost a match for his father on that subject.
What I really mean is my MIL has had 60 solid years without a serious counterpoint to the carefully cultivated religious right propaganda/worldview; through her late husband, her tv habits, and through her church friends.
Until she lived with us I don’t think she had any reason to question what she was hearing, so our different viewpoints are hard for her to grasp.
My use of "your" was generic, as I took your comment to be. No offense intended.
Look, we have to try. Sitting back and throwing up our hands won’t make us feel better if the worst comes to pass. I try to listen and ask non-confrontational questions. Sometimes alternatives break through. Some MAGA people are too frightening for me to engage in conversation. It is not ok on any level to let an unglued dictator come back into power. This time there would be no adults in the room. It is a terrifying prospect.
This. Thank you!
No disagreement with your conclusion. None whatsoever.
I would make the case that they don't, because if they properly understood the consequences of their votes, they wouldn't elect the likes of Comer and Jordan to begin. And even if it's the worst case scenario and all those services that people depend on grind to a halt, these people would find someone else to blame for it.
To put it another way, while Bulwark-style conservatism still believes in personal responsibility, MAGA believes in scapegoating. That will never change.
I wonder how many of them think that they are not doing well and that a shutdown will not affect them.
I’m afraid that for many what you say is true. I continue to hope that there are some people who are able to question what is happening. I imagine that most of them will shift the blame. People in cults (Heaven’s Gate, Jim Jones) can’t always see when their lives are threatened.
I have zero hope for them. The best play is to assume the worst, and move on.