In addition to eviscerating the top leadership at the Bureau, Kash Patel has assigned whole squads of agents to immigration enforcement. Seasoned FBI veterans who used to focus on national security or run RICO investigations are now doing perimeter security during ICE round-ups of kids and grandmas. The administration's purge is draining the Bureau of expertise and apolitical people who did real work defending the rule of law and protecting the country. Plus, do four GOP senators care one iota about the whistleblower allegations against Emil Bove? And will Ukraine finally get badly-needed air defense weapons?
Ben Wittes and Mike Feinberg—a former top deputy at the Bureau who was targeted by Dan Bongino—join Tim Miller.
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Listening to this interview and the quality of this person I’m convinced that a smart HR strategy would be to hire every person that Trump administration has purged and replaced with one of their INCOMPETENT GRIFTING MAGA STOOGES -
In firing people, Trump is serving as a talent scout for great people
“the girlies are fighting reality show”
“some girl with purple hair walking next to a military officer”
We are able to recognize the invasiveness of patriarchy in our language, and we should also continue to actively remove it.
Much like we have removed other demeaning words like “gay” as an insult or “retard” as dumb…etc thanks!
I continue to greatly appreciate The Bulwark.
Tim, Thanks for having Michael and Ben on to impart their experience and knowledge on these important topics. As Michael was speaking I had a ever increasing dread come over me. I kept thinking, if we have anyone of a dozen bad things that could possibly happen tomorrow occur, we are not fully prepared to handle them. When he mentioned the abandonment of pursuing white collar crime, it was like Hoover saying we don't pursue bank robbers. White collar criminals must be celebrating like it's Christmas. This was all very predictable once Trump got in because they are not working on the types of criminal behaviors Trump excels at. You know, sexual assaults, fraud, money laundering, bribery and so on and so forth. The Republicans in the Senate committed a crime when they confirmed Patel. They make Benedict Arnold look good. The only question I would have for Michael is, do you really think there's nothing there in the Epstein case? Really? No seriously? Now Ben made mostly intelligent and inciteful comments on the topics in question. The only issue that bothers me is when he uses the phrase "give him credit" in reference to Trump on Ukraine. Credit for waiting 6+ months to do the right thing while innocent Ukranians are dying. No thanks, he is complicit in Putin's war crimes. I agree about the 50 day ultimatum. It will be even worse if after the fifty days, Trump let's Putin set the terms like keeping all the occupied territories, etc. Thanks again...for nothing. Trump, America's Nero.
There may be more they/thems of the NSA that were fired or pushed out than you think, because NSA'ers are also notoriously introverted so they're less likely to come on the show and more likely to be quoted in stories like this one from April... https://www.thehandbasket.co/p/queer-trans-intel-chat-leak-chris-rufo
Travel before babies start trying to stand.
Once they insist on standing they will also want to pat the head of the bald guy in the seat in front of them, but are basically puppies so you will spend hours catching their hand and relocating it away from some stranger's head.
(Or get the bulkhead seat and face them frontwards.)
I loved the interview with Feinberg, and found it comforting as federal worker. It's meaningful to hear from civil servants who fought the good fight, tried to keep their jobs, but ultimately did what was right for them/their families. Thanks for having him on, Tim!
Nothing makes me angrier than the way Trump tries to destroy honest people for doing their jobs, from Shaye Moss and Ruby Freeman to Michael Feinberg. I really want to become an election worker. There needs to be enough people doing the right thing that they can't get all of us.
When FBI agents trained in counterintelligence are reassigned to babysit deportation vans, you know the empire’s not just in decline—it’s having a full-blown identity crisis in a Walmart parking lot.
This isn’t law enforcement. It’s cosplay authoritarianism.
Dan Bongino and Kash Patel gutting the Bureau is like putting the cast of Duck Dynasty in charge of a nuclear submarine: loud, underqualified, and weirdly proud of not reading the manual.
We don’t need more loyalty tests. We need a functioning democracy. And maybe a few agents who still know what the Fourth Amendment is.
Conservatives are a cancer in our liberal society and must be treated as such. The conservatives on the SCOTUS have unconstitutionally "revoked" the unenumerated and innate right of women to control their own lives and bodies, thus showing just how criminal and treasonous these people are well before this regime's wasting tax money on detention centers rather than on courts to provide due process.
Conservatism is a rot and must be excised.
Good show. What’s the name of the song at the end?
Sitting in an empty office, not getting any phone calls or emails sounds like my dream job. Retirement with full salary, essentially. The only way to make it better would be permission to work remotely.
You'd get bored, fast. Trump has the mentality to handle that though.
I doubt that. I just turned 65 and am looking forward to retirement. I do not expect to have any trouble staying busy - and, if I do, I'll find a volunteer gig.
I give Criminal Trump no credit whatsoever on Ukraine. If he'd backed Ukraine for all these years, the war would already be over.
His relationship with Vladimir Putin makes him a fellow war criminal.
Democrats in Congress should put forward a big, beautiful military and civilian aid bill for Ukraine. Put the Republicans on the horns of a dilemma. Ukraine is far more popular in the U.S. than Trump. Do you back Trump and have your numbers go down further? Or, do you back Ukraine at the distress of Criminal Trump?
The mechanism of accountability is for the public to erase every Republican from Congress that are up for election in 2026. Get rid of them all.
That's the way to send a message and change the way this government is operating.
Tim - great guests and discussions. We will get less safe with each passing year that these people are in office. While garden, construction workers and grandmothers are being put in concentration camps, crime will run rampant, and as stated in a comment above, another pandemic and/or attack on home soil will be missed. And as for research, democracy, ethics and altruism buh-bye.
If you're confused how the hallowed FBI could go fascist quite so easily, to turn on their own, just ask a progressive. Any progressive will do. No, not a liberal or a centrist - sometimes we get confused with them. An actual progressive. Someone who didn't respond to the Black Lives Matter protest by saying "we should give MORE money to the police".
This is not surprising. This is not shocking. This is not confusing.
WHEN MAGA KNOWS HE’S LYING
They’ll know he’s a heathen who wasn’t sent by God; a pedophile & Epstein client; a Russian asset & traitor; a lousy dealmaker with a low IQ; racist, grifter & coward, who’d sacrifice country, allies, & family to enrich or save himself!
MAGA won't believe any of that until they hear it on Fox. I'm not holding my breath.
Normally, I would agree but leading far-right conspiracy pushers are creating pressure on Trump, including Tucker Carlson, Charlie Kirk, Candace Owens, Alex Jones, etc.
The pettiness surrounding the targeting of Michael Feinberg lays bare the abject lack of talent and rampant insecurity of Trump's political creatures. Mr Feinberg - the next thing you move on to will be immeasurably better than prostrating yourself before the current administration. The real bonus here is that you will, in time, be able to relate the underlying reasons for your decision to resign with honor based on principle to your soon-to-born child when he/she grows up. This is nothing less than a badge of honor. Well done.
Nobody does RIGHTEOUS OUTRAGE like Ben Wittes.
He said:
"... nothing can redeem Trump's treatment of Ukraine in the first six months of his administration. And in no sense, when I say that this is a big deal and it will save a lot of lives, is that meant to... undermine the point that the first six months of the Trump administration have been a very, very deep betrayal of our European allies and Ukrainians who are under fire. I am approaching the question from a slightly different point, which is Ukraine... Really, really needs new more interceptors and more Patriot batteries"
Oh, Ukraine needs patriot batteries, eh? And the bad orange man isn't sending them?
He also does a bit of a drive-by of the Europeans ...
"And I want to make sure that the Europeans are as aggressive when it comes to actually spending money as they are when it comes to talking about it, which is a... chronic issue."
A chronic issue? Well, we hate those chronic issues, don't we Ben? Can't have a chronic issue.
Friends, if I were to tell you that President Biden, and the entire US Congress, WANTED to send the Ukrainians Patriot missile batteries at the beginning of 2022, but another country vetoed that decision by the President of the United States, what would you say?
Because that's what happened.
What would the righteously outraged Ben Wittes say?
Would the righteous Ben Wittes criticize that veto? Would he condemn Biden for being so weak that another country had veto power over him? Would he even criticize that other country for vetoing the defence of his beloved Ukraine? Condemn them for not being an ally to the United States when called upon?
In short, is there a limit to Ben Wittes' love of Ukraine? Yes. Yes, there is.
Turns out Ben Wittes' righteous outrage is just overwrought hypocrisy.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-torpedoed-sale-of-iron-dome-to-ukraine-fearing-russian-reaction-report/
Here’s a (not as out there as you might think) dilemma. Since the fbi is likely not living up to its potential - organized crime, syndicates, etc are going to grow unchecked. Some questionable guy is going to be worth $500-million through “assorted activities” - We are going to become a baby kleptocracy. What is Harvard going to do when one of them tries giving them a “contribution” - we indeed will have come full circle. (Blavatnik essentially did that). At either rate pretty scary to think the cops stopped policing.
Would be interesting to know what FBI morale is like out in the hinterland.
Overjoyed.
Y'all have no idea who the FBI has always been. Don't listen to Ben Wittes' hagiography.
Well, I’m thinking they might not be thrilled about building cases against people who might get pardoned in a heartbeat. And they may or not want to be ICE sidekicks either.
I think it’s great that George McFly is speaking out! A Delorean Time Machine could be helpful right about now.
I wasn't expecting to be so drawn in on law day, but man, Michael Feinberg was wonderful. To hear straight from the source what's going on with the Trump crime organization is invaluable. What a nightmare that these fuckers are getting rid of so much expertise and institutional memory.
And on top of that, we got some fantastic music chatter. I don't get to hear concert-experience conversations nearly enough. I'm pretty sure I'd have been in messy emotional tears if I were able to see Oasis, and I'm sort of a newish fan. (I did get to see Bloc Party at Red Rocks in June, though.) Thanks for sharing your Manchester experience Tim.
Tim, can you pretty please book Natalie Winters to the show? Seems like this might be a good time to hear from her corner of the fever swamp!
Wittes: "But let's just describe them neutrally, which is we want to lock up and deport as many people as humanly possible. And we want to cut the federal government down to size in nearly all other areas. And we want to give enormous tax breaks. That's the gestalt picture."
And to make it more concrete "nearly all other areas" includes national security, public health, ability to respond to disasters, both foreign and domestic, science research--probably more that I'm missing.
Some comments:
1. There's no way a majority of Americans would support this--well, not if they really knew the consequences of these cuts, which will involve hurting a lot of these Americans. Relatedly, if Trump support is based largely on being economically left behind, this should cause that support to crater. (I don't think it will--unless real suffering to a lot of them occur).
2. But if I tried to explain this to a friend, family member, or co-worker who really doesn't follow the news, I'd sound like a crazy person. Their thought-process: "If that were true, there's no way Congress would allow this, including Republicans. They wouldn't jeopardize national security, etc." The thinking is sound, especially if you haven't been following the news since Trump's rise to power.
3. In the next 3 years, if a catastrophic event occurs--a pandemic killing millions, a terrorist attack, a economic depression, etc.--will that surprise anyone? I don't think it should. The experience of touching a hot stove is on the horizon. And it's not just Trump supporters who will feel the pain.
JVL is wrong - touching the stove doesn't work.
They will just find a way to demagogue minorities. It might take a week or two, but it will happen.
No matter how much pain this causes? Also, suppose the people suffering the pain are children?
Or what about if Trump launched a nuclear weapon. I'm really uncertain about what would be a red line for Trump supporters, but I have to believe this would be a red line.
Quick update: on today's Next Level podcast, JVL agreed that Epstein wouldn't matter. I'm glad to see that he too is moving past the idea that touching the stove will work.
The red line for Trump supporters is if he is INSUFFICIENTLY cruel to those people they hate. Does hurting children make the liberals cry? Yes? Then that's good. Does getting away with pedophilia make the liberals cry? Yes? Then that's good.
That's the metric: are the liberals crying.
Hence, my argument is not to get upset at Trump, which looks weak and impotent, but to MOCK Trump for HIS weakness and impotency. Say he is too weak to prosecute the Biden Crime Family even after the Biden Crime Family went after him. Say he is too chicken to get after Hillary. Say Trump is too impotent to go after Obama, because he's scared of Obama's manliness.
Is that the one with Tim and Sarah--with Sarah disagreeing with JVL? If so, I find Sarah's position more persuasive than JVL's.
So if we're hit by another pandemic and Trump denies the danger of this, but then children start dying, that's not going to lessen support? If he launches a nuclear weapon at Iran, no effect?
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/epstein-scandal-keeps-shaking-trumpworld?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&t=288.8&d=5.0
So if we're hit by another pandemic and Trump denies the danger of this, but then children start dying, that's not going to lessen support?
No - he will demagogue brown people, and his supporters will cheer. The NYT will do a puff piece about "how brilliant Trump is at deflecting blame - a true political genius".
If he launches a nuclear weapon at Iran, no effect?
Oh, god no - his support would vastly increase! And I know there would be at least 7 Democratic Senators who would cheer right along with his supporters. I can even name them:
Adam Schiff (D-California), Chuck Schumer (D-New York), Jacky Rosen (D-Nevada), Maria Cantwell (D-Washington), Chris Coons (D-Delaware), Amy Klobuchar (D-Minnesota), and Cory Booker (D-New Jersey).
Why would I say this? Here's why:
https://zeteo.com/p/14-senators-posed-with-netanyahu?r=3hh94p&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
I disagree with you. There will be a hardcore group that never turn against Trump. But not everyone who voted for Trump falls into that category. I think Americans who are moderate and casually interested in politics will be horrified by these things, and they would respond at the poll.
Having said that, predicting what will cause Americans to turn against Trump is almost a fool's errand, so I don't say this with a lot of confidence.
Remember, we tested this proposition before - and we will almost certainly test it again.
We had COVID.
Trump was wildly inept and partisan, resulting in at least 400,000 excess deaths … and he lost the election BARELY because of it. It did move a tiny fraction of the country as you predict.
That’s what it took. That and an opponent who was a straight, white man.
The good thing is we will test your hypothesis: we will almost be guaranteed a COVID-level threat will happen again. My guess is it will be an economic collapse akin to the GFC, but it could be another similar test.
COVID is a good counter argument to what I'm saying. My thinking was that it wasn't catastrophic enough--which is a terrible thing to think.
"The good thing is we will test your hypothesis: we will almost be guaranteed a COVID-level threat will happen again"
Man, "good thing" is kind of pushing it, but I know what you mean.
I mean … Covid was the greatest loss of life since world war 2 … and MAYBE it moved 2% of the country to move from R to D?
So nuking Iran is fine.
Covering up a pedophile is fine too.
Remember the goal: distract the poor sufficiently to transfer what little wealth they have to the few wealthy.
Distract, distract, distract.
Every kid who raised money for UNICEF during Halloween should be outraged right now.
What a shame that a petty clown like Bongino has the power to fire competent agents when he himself has no law enforcement background and clearly isn’t the brightest bulb in the pack. It’s emblematic of this administration, I guess. Only toadies and empty-headed numpties need apply. I wish Mr. Feinberg the best.
He’s clearly not qualified but he was a cop in New York City and then a secret service agent. But it’s like Secy Hegseth who is clearly unqualified but did serve as an officer, very trumpian, he thinks if you worked in a bank you are qualified to be Fed chair.
Those hires are from the only acceptable DEI policy remaining. Trump cultists.
Chris Murphy gave a good speech about the recisions package on the floor today. worth checking out on his youtube.
Thanks to Mr. Feinberg for giving us a view of what it's like at the FBI these days. Sorry for all the professional agents who are dealing with the clowns, and for the rest of us, who are much less secure now that incompetents are in charge.
I don't know that Trump is a Russian/Chinese/whoever asset, but what would a hostile foreign agent in that position do different?
Trump is easy to manipulate. Dictators had his number a long time ago, but now democratic leaders are figuring out how to play the game.
Right? Finally! The time to use logic and reason -- and tut-tutting and finger wagging and strongly worded letters -- has passed.
Good show. Bring Ben back regularly, please.
Michael should take the polygraph just to see what they ask him.
Verve > Oasis
Speaking of the Verve have you seen Ren's cover of Bittersweet Symphony? Pretty incredible.
I haven't. That was never my favourite Verve song. I played the crap out of it when it came out, because it was new Verve, and was a long time coming. But then it became a hit and I heard it all the time, everywhere. Then I found out Verve didn't even get any royalties from that song, which was lame. I'll look for this Ren, tho!
the guy from the verve opened and i can say with authority that this is incorrect
I will concede, however, that Verve never had an anthem in the vein of Wonderwall.
Verve without Nick McCabe is barely Verve. I didn't like Richard's solo stuff, either. Did you ever see Verve live? In their prime, they were the best live band on Earth. I never saw Oasis, but I did see Liam once. It was okay.
Two excellent conversations. Ben is always worth listening to and didn't disappoint this time either. Your interview with Michael Feinberg was the best one I've seen yet.. I've seen a couple of interviews with him and yours was more in depth and informative and interesting of all.
Tim! Love the name drop of Wexner. It's good to hear his name mentioned again, in a bad way, of course.
He shouldn't get away with it.
But he will.
The FBI isn't unique in what the fascists are trying to do, but the level of destruction is higher. That's because the FBI was the cornerstone of the rule of law. So, it is particularly damaging to the United States to have this purge there.
This is really about a group, which always been hostile to civilization, coming in and doing as much damage to what they perceive as enemies as possible. The rule of law is particularly troublesome to fascists. A core element of fascism is committing crimes without consequences, often because the fascists control enough levers of power to get away with crimes.
This is what's particularly tragic about the Supreme Court helping Criminal Trump avoid accountability for his numerous felonies. Here's just the first indictment: he conspired to defraud the United States, he conspired to corruptly obstruct and impede Congress, and he conspired against the right to vote.
The fascists were able to weaken the justice system enough that they could get a criminal in the top office and work down from there.
So, it's a breakdown at the FBI. But that breakdown is part of a larger pattern of destroying the rule of law.
The media has done a wonderful job in the hagiography of who the FBI is, who they've always been.
What a bunch of f*ng idiots to get rid of someone as skilled and conscientious as Mike from the FBI. An utter waste of top talent. Our tax dollars at work. Scary to think of where the agency will end up at the end of the purges and downsizing in terms of safety of the citizenry. Trump is just a vessel for the Christian Nationalist white supremacy fever dreams of Russel Vought and his Project 2025. He and his ilk want a dumbed down and easily manipulated population. Keeping us safe is not on their agenda.
We call the three to nine month stage the luggage phase. Basically you can put the kid in the removable car seat and go out and do things, but with an extra thing to carry at dinner or while shopping or just going about.
All I can say is: What List? https://bsky.app/profile/opsan.bsky.social/post/3ltu2et2agk2n 🤪
THEY'RE HEEEEERRRE .. where else would they be? https://bsky.app/profile/opsan.bsky.social/post/3lu2i5pmjxk2i
Thanks Tim, for two important conversations imv, and I learned a lot.
I’ve been a big fan of BW for years and love his playfulness, too.
I understand the personal toll of filing a lawsuit, but there ought to be a class action lawsuit that people like Feinberg can join that will at least tie up the fascists in court, so that they have some penalty and are potentially delayed in pursuing their evil goals.
To your point, it's not necessarily losing .. one loses by having to invest in a defense against (what amounts to) a frivolous lawsuit. The only stopgap today is in the lower courts, and if the fix is in either by petitioner-friendly court or through forum shopping, the victim is screwed. If enough of those cases appear, that's a class .. IMO.
I don't think it would be frivolous for people forced to retire to demand compensation. It's a form of wrongful dismissal, even if they resigned, because they were forced into it.
It's going to take years to exorcise👻Trump👻 from the FBI.
Tim. I saw the Sex Pistols in 1977, in Edinburgh. Beat that. Meanwhile I lived with bated breath for your return from vacation. So many thanks.
My thoughts on his suppression are twofold: he's in it, and doesn't want his base to know that he is in it (not that anyone would be surprised). Or, he knows who else is in it and wants to leverage that as a threat to gain selected compliance. I'm certain there are other reasons.
UNprepared. https://bsky.app/profile/opsan.bsky.social/post/3loag7yi6ec2p
If you are sitting in an empty office with nothing to do, that puts you in a perfect position to spy in the organization from the inside.
Waltzing to the United Nations. https://bsky.app/profile/opsan.bsky.social/post/3lo75isopos2s
Dan .. it's a J-O-B.
The actual word for it isn't weird. The actual word for it is EVIL.