In this bonus episode following the assassination attempt on former Pres. Donald Trump, The Bulwark's managing editor Sam Stein joins Tim Miller to discuss the precarious moment we are in, how to dial back the temperature, and how both parties should respond to the violence.
show notes:
Bill Maher on the shooting
Rep. Andy Kim's response to the shooting
AP Photo/Evan Vucci
To watch Sam and Tim record the episode head to our YouTube page here. You can find The Bulwark Podcast wherever you get your podcasts and here.
Hey Tim, do you think the SS yelled “ Donald Duck” Ha! Maybe too soon, but really When you indulge in violent rhetoric for 8plus years, sometimes it comes back and bites you in the Ass! I have zero fucks to give, especially after you think about all the Lives that have died from his hate speeches, remember when he said immigrants were invading and a young wingnut drove four hours from Dallas to Elpaso to kill 22 people at a Walmart! Or the 13 Jews at a synagogue, Let’s not forget Buffalo NY where 10 black people lost their lives! He’s never gonna stop encouraging violence, I give him 2 weeks and he’ll be right back at it. Truth believe me.
Why are we calling it political violence? No, seriously I question this. The shooter is a blank canvas but for the firearm he used. He could easily be an opportunist who sought posthumous fame by shooting the nearest political figure and who wanted to go out in a blaze of so-called glory. Shot by Secret Service, how cool is that? Better than being some loser shooting himself in his parent's basement.
In the light of the assassination attempt, I feel even more strongly that a ticket with Whitmer and Shapiro should be considered. If arrived at through a transparent process and achieving full support of Biden and Harris, this would generate excitement and have a good chance of winning.
I think Harris would have an important role to play as a senior cabinet member, perhaps Attorney General.
This election is an absolute catastrophe. Everything that could have gone wrong has gone wrong. It feels like a runaway train without a driver, who the hell knows where it will end up. At this point, I have to tune it out for my own sanity.
Tim, you did me in with Buffalo Springfield. Oh my heart. I remember that day in Ohio and the news cover photo is burned on my retinas. Oh man.
The fact that Sam Stein would need to write that 'Political Violence is not the Answer' demonstrates the level of mental dysfunction and simple mindedness to which the country has descended, especially about violence and political violence that has been an integral part of American culture for centuries.
The most disheartening and sickening aspect of all the rhetoric in past days about gun attack on Donald Trump, is absolute refusal by any senior or all politicians in the Republican Party to abjectly denounce those withing their ranks who have publicly called for "political violence" on several occasions as means for gaining power and control going forward.
Equally as unbelievable is silence and cowardice from any and all Democrats in not severely admonishing, even condemning Republicans for this bigotry and acquiescence to vitriol of violence. No statement has been made by senior Democrats against declaration by Republican representative Collins in insanely attributing the attack as an order from Biden.
President Biden has repeatedly called for the Nation to Come Together. "No One" is listening, which bespeaks a complete disconnect with the reality of permanent fracture America is experiencing.
I live in hope. I’m taking a few deep breaths right now with the expectation that the Democrats and the Never Trump Republicans WILL be bringing your thoughts to life. I have a heavy sense of doom, I’m sick with anxiety, and damned tired of it. I’m old and feel now is my last chance to ‘save the country’ for the next two or three generations. I know I’m not alone. I believe our wishes for a ‘deadly’ serious and powerful response will happen, but right now might be a good time to let the Rs hang themselves here in my hometown.
Somehow the electorate, regular people, need to have it explained that if TFG is elected, the country won’t be saying “well, that didn’t work well, maybe we should elect a Democrat in 2028”. It will be too late to do anything about anything that TFG’s administration sets in motion. No chance to say “oops, let’s try again”. Too late. How would we bring NATO back, ever get justice for anyone, ever hold another free and fair election? These are the thoughts that keep me up at night. Literally.
Every year for the past thirty years I have heard Americans talking about need to "fight for Freedom and Democracy", much as Martin Luther King Jr indicated and practiced fighting vigorusly and relentlessly alongside hundreds of thousands of down trodden blacks and other disenfranchised Americans for their right to Vote and for acceptance as true equals in this society.
What Happened?
Hope is an aspiration that has no current lifespan or currency in this country of hate and violence for past 200 plus years. That observation maybe one reason that almost every person with whom I am acquainted and/or related from several other western developed nation are almost unanimous in thinking that Democrats will succumb to the onslaught of Donald Trump's MAGA disruptors this November, with only hope in their minds.
I hope all these folks and with whom I agree to a large extent are totally wrong, but the acquiescence to defeat and subjugation of a new dictator type authoritarian existence of America is logically much stronger.
Every one of my family and friends (with significant exception of my own husband) and neighbors is aware of the dreadful position the country is in. But they all have hope that you are wrong. Here in Wisconsin we have been under minority rule since the ugly endless term of Scott Walker, yet we still managed to elect a liberal state Supreme Court justice in a landslide. Women and young people turned out in droves and bitch slapped a smug Republican leadership. My continued hope is with women and young people in November. Especially with that hate monger Vance on the ticket with Trump. If the backlash against greed, hate, misogyny and toxic testosterone levels gains strength, the Republic will be safe. I see cracks in the patriarchy.
I share some of that anguish you expressed about the state of things in our country. Reality has become an unattractive thing to deal with realistically now? This is a great opportunity for Democrats. We could put our excessive fear and hopelessness aside, our wishes to master the situation with more niceness, not offending or provoking anyone by mentioning what is true, and keep retreating on the battlefields both at home and abroad. I want far more capable and wise leadership than Biden and his team provide, not because he isn’t “nice”, or trying to be careful, but because 1) he has never been capable enough on this level, in my opinion, and 2) he is showing far too much weakness and neurodegeneration to continue on for another term. We as Democrats must really be willing to grab the reins of reality and move forward confidently and clearly despite how unattractive and scary this reality can look.
Did anyone else hear a newscaster say the man who was killed at the rally was "caught in the crossfire"? An odd way to suggest how he was hit by a bullet that seems only to have come from one source.
I'm just wondering why the anchor would choose that phrase, not suggesting any conspiratorial cover-up of the bullets that hit the crowd.
In any event, I hope the final report, including autopsy and ballistic information, will be made public.
This assassination attempt *would* count as a mass shooting since 4 people were hit: Trump, the retired fire chief who died, and two others in critical condition at a hospital. That's four people shot (not including the shooter who was killed by USSS).
But yea, this country has a *men with guns* problem that isn't necessarily an age thing (the Vegas shooter was 67, the Maine shooter was 34, etc.). Women don't seem to be doing mass-shootings or assassination attempts or domestic violence killings anywhere close to the rates that men do. So it's not necessarily a gun problem as much as it is a men-with-guns-and-mental-health-issues problem.
Yep. Great final theme. History may not repeat, but it rhymes, with a dynamite melody.
Tim's right that Trump is very lucky. Everything is going his way. Now, one more blow to democracy and a gift to Trump: the documents case has been dismissed! Unbelievable!!! I'm sick to my stomach and having trouble dealing with all of this. I hate to say it but I think I've lost all hope of any good outcome in the near future.
How long before everybody starts to notice this whole horror was Republican on Republican violence with a weapon of war Republicans refuse to outlaw?
Democrats had nothing to do with any of it. It's not both sides.
And Trump haas a body count piling up behind him directly because of HIS rhetoric - El Paso, Pittsburg, Buffalo, The Capitol - and he must be called out on it every day.
We must not be intimidated or gaslit by fascist wannabes.
Yep, the mainstream media is totally both-sidesing playing Biden saying this and Trump saying that. How about the scores of violent rhetoric that has been preached by Trump’s minions all these years? Alex Jones and Rush Limbaugh come to mind.
Allison Gill’s “The Daily Beans” podcast today played a clip of Alex Jones and guest basically saying how cool it would be if Trump were assassinated and then it would give them a real opportunity to go after everybody and install General Flynn. Seeing that this shooter was a registered Republican, it’s at least a credible theory that he was doing this as a response to a Republican fringe call to incite civil war.
Here’s the transcript from the Alex Jones interview:
“Ivan Raichlin, what happens if they steal it again? Or what happens if they kill Trump?
That's what I was gonna get to, the most dangerous course of action, right? That's the most dangerous course of action. I mean, I will say-
They've turned him into literally Obi-Wan Kenobi.
If they do that, option two behind Trump is gonna be so much better for us and so much worse for them.
I was about to say, if they kill him, that's the best case scenario. From a sick level, from a sick level beating him, oh, please kill him, which I don't, I mean, it's so good after that.
Oh, it's gonna be the best cleansing and the fastest cleansing that we've ever seen in my lifetime. I assess with almost certainty, with the highest level of confidence, that if they assassinate Trump, it is so game over for them, and it's gonna be so fast.
I'm actually scared of that, though. That's so explosive.
It is. That's why, I mean, it's basically, it's a warning to them, right? If they cross the Rubicon, you saw how popular he was, I mean, by just prosecuting him.
When I get[…]”
From The Daily Beans: The Unthinkable, Jul 15, 2024
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-daily-beans/id1473747182?i=1000662233291
This material may be protected by copyright.
Akshuallly - this was a mass shooting as defined by four or more people shot - Trump, the guy who was killed, and the two others critically wounded.
Thank you for this guys. I was looking forward to hearing your reactions, which I know were tough to prepare in light of there not being a whole lot of information. But Tim, just in case anyone is trying to cancel you, you are absolutely right that Trump is the luckiest SOB ever. If only all the news outlets could stop running that damn martyr image of him!! No one deserves to be shot at. But Trump himself is responsible for creating this environment. I look forward to The Bulwark staying strong in the aftermath of the assassination and not allowing Republicans to spout their BS about Dems being at fault for what happened. Trump is a threat, plain and simple.
Tim, it is "grown up" to expect actions to have consequences. Many times they're visited on bystanders but sometimes they graze the ear of an instigator.
Tim,
I have noticed your usage of the phrase "light authoritarianism" for a while and you used it again in this podcast. However, I do not think that you have made an effective case that Trump / Republicans plan for LIGHT authoritarianism.
January 6th was not light authoritarianism, it was an attempted coup and an attempt to establish a dictatorship.
Trump telling Esper to send troops to shoot protestors does not sound "light".
Trump saying former members of his administration and other should be executed does not sounds light.
The project 2025 plan to cause all government workers to swear allegiance to Trump instead of the constitution does not sound light.
Plans to invoke the insurrection act and send troops to take over police stations in democratic cities on the first day of Trump’s second term does not sound light.
In short a great deal of what Trump did, attempted to do and plans to does sound light. These previous actions and plans sound like hard authoritarianism / dictatorship.
Also, the supreme court making president immune does not sound light.
Other presenters on the Bulkwark and other places repeatedly say that Trump has previously either done or tried to do everything he said he would do. Now the supreme court has given and project 2025 will give him massive and possibly unlimited power to implement his plans. If he exercises this power, is this not the definition of hard authoritarianism / dictatorship?
Please make your counter case. I would very much like to hear it.
Are you just calling it “light” in an effort to turn down the temperature or can you make an actual case? I am hoping and prayer there is a solid case for “light”.
To be clear in this context I am in no way advocating for violence, but I also believe we must be real about the risks and what we need to do and peaceful democratic means are the answer.
I've said it many times, he is the luckiest s.o.b. in American history, it's become glaringly apparent this year.
The immediate responses from Clinton(s), Obama, Pelosi--and Biden's call to Trump--were perfect. I expect in the next few days or so, most prominent Democrats will unequivocally condemn this vile crime and all forms of politically-motivated violence. Some will also encourage *everyone* to dial down the rhetoric & anger.
What will the GOP response be? What will J.D. Vance say? I think I know.
I'm not trying to make this a "both sides do it" thing. With the exception of the far Left's most extreme folks, there is not the type of rage inside the Democratic Party or wider, broader "Left" that exists in MAGA-land & the wider GOP. There just isn't.
That does *not* mean that those of us most passionate anti-Trumpers shouldn't look ourselves in the mirror and evaluate tactics, strategy, and language. How long you want to look at the mirror is up to you.
I *do* know that it's INSANE that we don't go after the low-hanging fruit . . and that would be the self-inflicted wounds we allow the far Left to inflict on the anti-Trump cause by means of their obsession w/ identity politics & all things "woke."
I adore Tim, but he's been increasingly dismissive of critiques of the Left's cultural excess. He's been playing down--or he doesn't realize--the degree to which Americans of many stripes (but especially those inclined for Trump) are just appalled with the constant condescension & affront to common sense that comes from "woke-ism."
DEI, the way over-the-top excesses of the Trans movement, perceived attacks on basic masculinity (presented as "toxic" masculinity, of course), etc. This stuff is real. If we think its just a (small) bunch of ignorant rednecks . . . well, that's *exactly* what the problem is.
There's a reason that the authors of that white rural rage book were found to have engaged in sloppy scholarship. It's because they wrote a *polemic* based on pre-determined "research" conclusions. Not a scientific study. Their arrogance is *EXACTLY* the stuff that's killing us!
Obviously, when you pair economic challenges in "de-industrialized" and parts of rural America, you get a witch's brew of potent resentment--much of it entirely justified.
Well done.
The Dems need to be quiet for 3 days and see what the GOP is offering. Then make the case for what they offer. Every day until the election. Pick the best leader. Those who have made up their minds have not done so on this crazy kids attempt to kill Trump. Many already love Trump. And many others fear what Trump will do. Make the case. If there is violence law enforcement will do its job. That’s what happened in the 60’s-not always perfectly-but the entire country didn’t go nuts at the same time in the 60’s and it won’t now.
No they should not be quiet. Keep talking about the threat of trump, because it's real.
There is zero reason to pause comms right now.
Maybe Joe Biden should focus on uniting the country as President as he always promised he would. He should step aside from his candidacy and allow another candidate to carry the torch. Regarding Andy Kim, I supported him from the moment that he announced for the Senate. He will make a great Senator!
You can't be a uniter when the other side is hell bent on division. Biden could try and he has but the responsibility for that is solely of those on the GOP. And they are not interested.
Cynical maybe, but a fact.
Not true - Suzy Wiles and Chris Lacivita have just issued a policy to all GOP to stop the violent rhetoric about Dems (at last). They know that it’s bad politics for them. Maybe it’s a start.
Yeah, I figured that message must have gone out from someone with political smarts.
No way they speak for trump nor what he wants his cult to say/do.
trump campaign always -- always -- say one thing and do another. I, for one, look at their history, and division is job number one.
The would be assassin would seem the only person incapable of killing just one person with an AR15
Well Kids at school do not have Secret Service Counter Snipers on standby! So there is that!
When the courts fail…
When courts fail…
If political violence is never acceptable, was the American revolution unacceptable? It was pure political violence. How about German citizens killing Nazi party members in the 1930s and 1940s? Was that unacceptable? There is more to the question of political violence than people are considering. In my view political violence is justified if Trump and MAGA are truly an existential threat to democracy in the US. It will certainly be justified if Trump is elected and his administration attempts to implement Project 2025.
Thoughts and prayers for Trump. (I won't say exactly what the thoughts and prayers contain.)
Shay's rebellion ended the right to rebel with violence. The response to it was the constitution and rule of law. Madison wrote it as a response to that crisis of violence and even Sam Adams agreed it was illegal to use political violence AFTER the revolution. Only Patrick Henry and his faction disagreed, giving us the famous quote, but the constitution won. It replaced the need for political violence and make it a crime.
It seems to me that Trump, the Project 2025 crowd, MAGA (e.g., Aileen Cannon), and the Supreme Court are bent on nullifying the constitution.
This is not so much a story about presidential campaigns and assignation plots as it is about America and rifles. This was just another young man, barely a man, in existential despair, taking his revenge on the world and a rifle from his dad. Not a sociopath. Probably a tender human soul too often rejected in life. Why Trump? That might be his secret. It could be as simple as this would grant him the most attention post mortem. After all, this was an act of suicide, as most shooters are suicidal. They know they will die and they want to die. And in doing so taking their revenge on this world by leaving their shocking mark burned into history.
Yes. The young person killed someone and shot others because he had the power to hurt and kill people in his hands. That's a fundamental of the situation that everyone rushes past in their intense search for why. The basic answer to why is because he had the means to do so. If we keep glossing over this part we will continue to have violence, injuries and death by fire arms.
This is exactly what I’ve been thinking
Thank you Tim. Keep up the program sometimes you say what I’m thinking .
It's been mentioned lots before, Tim, but your ability to pick the right music to follow a podcast is astounding. Wisdom for our times from a very young Steven Stills to follow wisdom from the two of you. Thanks
So glad that you closed with “For What It’s Worth. “ I’m one of those old Boomers who was twelve years old in 1968 and saw what can happen in this country when we are polarized. It is indeed time to stop, look around and lower the temperature.
Same (except I was 17, even older boomer). Incredibly sad that 50+ years later this song remains so very relevant.
For Sam Stein—psychopaths aren’t deranged, interestingly. They are cool, largely fearless, essentially uncaring, unethical people. When an assassin is a psychopath, he would probably do a very professional job. I think Trump has some psychopaths on his team. I suspect Roger Stone, for instance. Trump and a number of others around him are narcissistic, including malignant narcissists, the worst kind. Lots of violent people and criminals are often seen as sociopaths, while others who might be more of the “professional” gang type could be psychopaths. Plenty of psychopaths, however, are very successful lawyers, business types etc Very useful people in war because they are quite fearless, ruthless and keep their heads.
I really don’t like the “violence is not the answer” framing, because it takes as a given that the question—“how to get rid of Trump?”—was the same for the shooter and Democrats.
That just has been shown to be true at all. If this was politically motivated, it wasn’t from the left, but it seems to be clearly someone with mental issues who never should have had an AR-15 (much less access to that roof).
Yeah, it heavily implies "both sides" which isn't at all accurate.
And it takes as a given that the shooter wanted the same things we do. But I don’t want Trump dead. I want him shamed, imprisoned, and very far from the Oval Office.
The shooter’s motives were likely the same as a school shooter—a twisted mind searching for attention and relevance.
Can you imaging saying “violence is not the answer” after a school shooting?
It's so easy to leap-frog over the reality of mental illness, and the reality of a mentally ill young man with an AR 15 as the proximate cause of shooting at a politician.
If it's a politician, it *must* have a political cause, right? /s
I am very disappointed in the suggestions put forth by Tim and Sam. Honestly, I am sick and tired of hearing that it is up to the Democrats to “be the adults”, to talk about our political moment in a way doesn’t upset the other side. I call BS!
Trump has been encouraging political violence since 2015 and now he is the recipient of the violence he calls for. That is NOT the democrats fault.
As long as Tim, Sam and a million others continue to lean on dems to “do the right things” while not expecting responsible behavior from republicans, then republicans will continue to do whatever they please.
STOP “both siding” this issue.
Oh, Sue... I'm so totally with you! And while some on the Right are today calling for "everyone to take a deep breath" and back away from violence and violent talk, let's remember that the violence and the violent talk began with THEM. And let us always remember that backing away from violence was NOT Trump's message he expressed with blood on his face--> it was instead, "FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT" said with a raised fist and a violent face.
Yeah, that crowd fist pumping and shouting along with him was pretty alarming. Where does that lead? Nowhere good.
Pelosi is usually excellent making her points clearly and factually too—a fine example of holding her ground/the ground she has chosen.
It’s mind-boggling to me that a rooftop with a direct site line across an open field wasn’t secured by secret service. This was an event with an open stage and bleachers with people sitting there. A monumental blunder on their part. How could there be such a basic outdoor venue oversight allowing this deranged AR wielding nut to just take his position and fire? Audience members saw this guy before security did. And one of them died tragically.
And it’s not at all mind boggling that when Trump realized he was OK, he posed for his money shot, the flag perfectly framed behind him. First he gets his brilliant one-take mugshot, now another iconic photo. Unreal. AR bullet whizzing by his head scratching his ear when it could’ve easily killed him like the similarly unprotected audience member. Now Trump will get a big convention ratings bump. Galvanizing his otherwise stale persecution narrative and impressing more right-leaning swing voters.
We need to turn down the temperature, yesterday. Obviously it’s worse coming from the right.There are many examples. There’s also a lot of doomerism about another Trump term, however warranted. Trump’s own words are inciting as well. I love Tim but I’ve heard him say he’s hoping for the cheeseburger that takes Trump out(I’m paraphrasing). I’m guessing he stops saying that. We all need to focus on the strengths of our side and the weaknesses of the other.
All I kept thinking was: book depository. The SS is still in the hot seat for that dereliction. 60 years later how is this still in repeat mode??
Exactly. Especially with much more efficient weapons so widely available to the public now. How is securing a roof with a direct site line not the first no-brainer thing they do at an event like this..?
Thank you for this excellent podcast in a very confusing and troubling moment.
The problem you don't talk about:
Trump won't stop.
Yes again, trump isn't going to do the "adult" "presidential" or "normal" thing. Ever.
Yet we are constantly presented this fantasy that he should do this or that; Sam and Tim both know he's not, but there they are making suggestions
2 more things:
1. I disagree that Obama could bring down the temperature in this country. Obama was a great great politician and he was an eloquent orator. He tries his hardest to bring the country together but we have to be honest: he failed. A large part of the reason we have Trump is because of Obama (not his fault at all. He just happened to be black). If anything I respected what Biden did the last 4 years. He tried to stay out of the spotlight after the reality tv presidency we watched for 4 years. He rarely ever politicized anything. He worked honestly and diligently with republicans on tons of things and although he had good reason to go on attack (Ukraine, debt cliff, debt ceiling, bipartisan deals, trying to impeach him for bs, going after his son, the numerous house republican speaker fights, etc). It did NOTHING to bring down the temperature. Nothing at all. Shit, he is partially unpopular with his base because he didn’t FIGHT. Guys, this Trump/Republican train is going to run hotter and hotter and hotter until they get CRUSHED in elections or they remake America. We have left all the off-ramps long ago.
2. Guns: I have always been a center right Republican until Trump. However, the one thing I always MASSIVELY disagreed with their policy positions on is guns. I’ll be honest, I think ALL guns should be illegal. However, dems have ran numerous campaigns on guns after countless disasters in this country and guess what? My position is not at all popular. Not only that but it seems that where the country has gone the last 10 years is where we continue to go. I don’t think I’ll see a substantial roll backs on rights for guns in my life and I’m not old. Here is the cherry on top. After the uvalde shooting they elected a Republican again in uvalde and voted massively in favor for governor abbot. Yes it polls well to get Ak’s off the market. However voters never vote for people who actually run on gun control. It sucks but this is just a fact.
He did not fail. The people failed. Sooner or later every person in this country has to understand that he/she is accountable. As President Obama always emphasized... This is your country and you must be involved. You cannot afford to be a spectator! The buck stops with each and everyone of us.
Apologies. Yes you are correct.
What I was trying to say is…beautiful speeches won’t fix us. That’s it.
But he was never just a beautiful speech kind of president. That is how many perceived him, yes, but he was far more Watch again. Hear him again. He was always for America and we, the people, but emphasized the finer points of how we can achieve our better selves.
Sure but I’m not talking or responding to who he was as a person or president. I am responding to Sam and Tim saying “if Biden gave an Obama-like ‘there are no red or blue states. We are America.”
Laura Ingraham on Fox, 24 hours after the asassination attempt: “Two things: 1. Don’t believe Biden and the Democrat elite when they say they’re afraid Donald Trump could spell the end of democracy: they just came out sending their wishes and prayers for Trump… they’d never do that if they REALLY believed he was going to be a dictator. 2. Biden has said he wants Congress to fast-track an investigation into the failures that led to the assassination attempt, but you know that once the investigation begins, they’ll be denying the need for it and trying to fight its findings.”
Sheesh!!!!
She’s atrocious.
Laura Ingraham is trash and everyone knows that
Unfortunately, she has a substantial number of viewers who don't think of her that way And also - referring to her as trash is another example of not turning down the temperature. I'm sure we could come up with a better descriptor without it being a personal insult. Perhaps a right-wing bad faith propagandist?
No, trash is pretty accurate. Feel free to side step around the truth but I won't.
And substantial number of viewers isn't the honor you might think it is.
She’s an articulate, well-loved sleaze-peddler. That’s pretty polite ;)
I don’t feel that my seeing this attempt on Trump as AGAIN showing him to be the luckiest person I’ve ever known is a mean or inhumane sentiment - It is a natural reaction. Yes someone tried to hurt him, but he wasn’t hurt. One person died two crucially hurt but not him and now he’s Mr. America. These thoughts aren’t kind but they’re honest and a reaction to living in a pressure cooker for years.
A very disappointing pod. It seems like there's an implication that pro-democracy people need to stop warning about the Trump threat, i.e. lie to people, to "turn the temperature" down. MAGAites and Trump turn the temperature up by lying, but their opponents do it by telling the truth. It's really unfortunate the truth is so terrifying and upsetting, to the point it may provoke violence, but I don't agree we should lie to people who want democracy to keep them docile. Docility is a quality we seek in the animals we eat, not our pro-democracy citizens.
I wasn't one who wanted to unsubscribe over being mad about Biden. But if the Bulwark position is lying to their readers and lying to themselves to tranquilize everyone as a knife looms over them, then yeah, they're done.
Would it be so hard for Biden and Harris to say something like “even though we have stark disagreements with Republican elected officials, they as well as Republican voters are valued members of the American community. They are our friends, our loved ones, and our policy opponents, and they are Americans.”
Why is it so hard to strike such a tone rather than just shouting call for “unity” into the universe?
Why is it up to Biden and Harris? trump drives a violent narrative, maybe just maybe he should take that step; but he won't, b/c he's a coward.
Unfortunately because the other side will not is exactly WHY the Dem/never Trump side must go out of their way to make blatant statements of unity, and call out Republicans, in name, as valued members of the American community.
We need to go out of our way to prove to the victims of the right wing media bubble that they are being lied to when they are being told anti-Trump people are literally enemies of the country by that right wing media bubble.
We need to make it blatantly obvious that Fox and company are outright liars. And having a clip circulating of Biden saying something like “Republicans are our friends and loved ones, we disagree on policy, but their ideas can even help us be a better party too” would be immediately disarming of this right wing media bubble narrative that Biden and everyone who is anti Trump is pure evil.
No. The politically violent language is coming from one side. And one side only.
Biden and Dems should keep the up the dialogue to showing that trump and his ilk are a danger to democracy.
And I can't name on "idea" from the GOP that would make the Dems a better party. That's just silly.
Come on man he literally said “political violence is never ever acceptable.”
Why can’t Trump come out and say “we should never ever use violence. We need to respect our Democratic brothers and sisters.” This shit goes both ways man
Biden made a good statement but see my response above.
So he has to use your exact words? Why can’t maga call for unit like I said above?
I can understand how difficult it is to read what I am suggesting. And you all are right that really this is a responsibility of MAGA and Republican leadership. But in this void of leadership, the Democrats and anti Trump Republicans need to reach out in a new way.
In this way, when Charlie Kirk and that cadre tells their audience that the ‘left hates you for who you are,’ it is in direct opposition to clips circulating of a true sentiment: not everyone who votes Republican is terrible, we don’t see it that way at all, and in fact most voters are just trying to do what’s right by their family with the best information they have. We have to say we see that humanity.
Yes, I think Biden and our leadership should reach out to “Republican voters.” He should make clear that he sees them as Americans, many of whom he still considers friends.
This can still be done while opposing the worst ideas to come to American politics in 100 years.
It’s not difficult it’s nonsensical. They don’t care what dems say. They don’t listen to what dems say. They won’t hear what dems say.
In this country you have 2 messages: one from dems and one from maga. Those are the comparison where choices will be made. You keep focusing on dems because you absolutely know that republicans are going to raise the temperature and instead of putting blame where it’s suppose to go you are wordsmithing in hope that these exact words somehow change them.
Dem leaders, legislators, and media pundits can try and have been trying to lower the temperature, no one more than biden. They don’t call for violence whereas maga do. You can wordsmith all you want but they won’t hear it and don’t want to hear it.
This isn’t difficult. What you are asking has been said. It’s just not exactly the words you want said. If you are hoping for some perfect words to penetrate then we are already screwed.
Transcript of an excerpt of Biden’s first speech today:
“ As I said last night, there is no place in America for this kind of violence or for any violence for that matter.
An assassination attempt is contrary to everything we stand for as a na- — as a nation. Everything. It’s not who we are as a nation. It’s not America, and we cannot allow this to happen.
Unity is the most elusive goal of all, but nothing is important than that right now — unity.
We’ll debate, and we’ll disagree. That’s not — that’s not going to change. But it’s going to — we’re going to not lose sight of the fact of who we are as Americans.”
Biden made a good statement but see my first response above.
Biden’s supposed to be speaking from the Oval office shortly. Let's see what he says.
How do you all think this will affect the Replace Biden movement?
It seems to be, at least temporarily, shut down.
Wapo had an interesting article about Trump's reaction. He now sees this as some sort of semi spiritual event. He wants the convention to stress unity among all and to turn down their rhetoric. If he actually follows through that might be a sort of semi miracle event. I have my doubts that Trump can actually turn the other...ear.
Don't be cheeky, Colleen.
LOL
I am surprised that anyone is surprised. I was a child when John Kennedy was killed. I remember it vividly. I lived through everything since. For some time, I have scanned the headlines every morning to see if either candidate was shot.
I cannot believe the Democrats are being blamed for this act of violence. Th Republicans have been extraordinarily irresponsible with the 2nd amendment, immigration, taking away women’s rights… the agenda of MAGA is dangerous to democracy.
True, but remember...asymmetry.
RE:
Rep. Ronny Jackson (R-Texas) [AKA "the Candy Man") said his nephew — who was sitting in the “friends and family” section during the Trump rally — was grazed by a bullet during the assassination attempt. Jackson tells us his nephew is OK.
The Texas Republican is close with Trump and was a former White House physician, who claimed that Trump's medical condition would lead to him living to the age of 200.
I may be just a total cynical a-hole, but considering the "lesser lights' of the GOP contingent can only get coverage with their puerile BS, I doubt that "Craigie" the nephew (from a family that uses diminutives for first names) was in danger from the streaking bullet.
I was disappointed in the tone of this podcast. Did I miss some reporting that has shown that the shooter was a deranged liberal or a Democrat or even a Biden supporter? Or that something Democrats say or stand for motivated him to try to assassinate Trump? Because all I see is he’s a registered Republican who may or may not have donated $15 to a PAC using ActBlue 3.5 years ago. Other than that he is a 20 year old white man who was a loner and was bullied in school and had access to a rifle. These are all the same traits we always see in these sorts of shooters.
So why are we all supposed to assume that he did what he did because of the heated rhetoric on the anti-Trump side? And that we better all tone it down and watch how we fight Trump?
Isn’t this the kind giving up in advance or fighting with one arm tied behind our back that you all usually tell us is why Democrats lose?
Totally agree.The strategy was to show how dangerous trump would be to our democracy. That hasn’t changed. I would also push passing legislation to curb the gun violence epidemic.
I have a question …..not suggesting a conspiracy….but I don’t really understand how a bullet from a high powered rifle can graze a persons head and not shear off part of the ear. Also, why did Trumps shoes come off? Anyone know the answers?
You noticed that too? A rifle round just grazing an ear would do visible damage. Cartilage tends to disintegrate when touched by a piece of metal a quarter inch around and traveling at 3,000 feet per second. I’ve zoomed-in on the photo and there’s no damage to his ear. It looks more like a shaving accident. Come to find out, a bullet went through the teleprompter, and glass shards went flying at him. Of course, Trump being Trump, he’ll spend the rest of his life telling everyone that he took a bullet like a big strong hero. But he obviously just got nicked by a piece of glass.
I’m all in for the conspiracy.
I think most reports said it was glass that cut Trump. If his ear was hit by an ak47 bullet he wouldn’t have an ear.
That’s what I think but Trump put out a statement that he heard the bullet whiz by and it pierced his ear
Yeah Trump lies.
I’m curious about the shoes too. Did he fall out of them?
I am not a "gun guy" but it seems that any projectile can come close to an object and take only a smidgen of it.
Think of basketball shots that hit the rim, and it's the spin that determines which way the ball will travel.
Reading now that others close to Trump were treated for minor injuries from flying debris. I wonder if the first report that Trump was hit by debrief was correct. Still bad but might be the answer.
Thanks Tim for doing this extra and timely episode!
Having lived through the political assassinations of the 60s, I watched the news last night thinking that history sure is rhyming in an alarming way. I needed to hear the perspective of at least a couple of the Bulwark team today, especially after listening to comments like J.D. Vance's. Thanks for this special weekend podcast as we all brace for stormy seas ahead.
Really glad to have Sam at the Bulwark - he's a nice fit here. Thanks for the weekend pod and the relaxed tone of the conversation.
How can we move on from here? It's going to take a lot of time and a lot of political will. The less will, the more time. If Trump wins, the best case is Poland: a cycle or two with a hard right, authoritarian government, followed by an electoral backlash that pushed the government back toward the center.
The UK has thrown out the Tories after 14 years in favor of a centrist PM who has purged the Labour party of radicals and antisemites. France somehow kept the RN from taking power. Europe can harness political will. The US refuses to take political crises seriously. That has to change, or we will be facing an authoritarian GOP for a generation.
If Dems nominate Biden or Harris, they will give the White House to Trump. They will likely lose the Senate and House to a reactionary GOP. They will have made the decision to surrender, to wave a white flag, when they have available younger and much more talented pols who could run the Trump gang out of Dodge. America will know these Democrats for their abject cowardice and history will vilify them. As it should.
Disagree
No it isn’t. It’s whoever votes for Trump. If people are too stupid to see the difference than we were fucked long ago
Is that Dodge (City) Kansas or Texas?
To me, this election and elections for the foreseeable future will be about one thing… to restore my right and your right to vote for a president who will faithfully execute and BE BOUND BY the laws of our great country. While I’m sensitive to Trump and Trump supporters so soon after yesterday’s shooting, Trump is continuing to raise money and the Republican National Convention starts tomorrow. Time is of the essence.
After 236 years as a constitutional republic governed by the rule of law, we have a former Republican president, Donald Trump who has been indicted not once but four times for criminal activity. Instead of demanding his constitutional right to a speedy and public trial to prove his innocence, Donald Trump sought delay while proposing that he is immune from criminal consequences for actions taken as president. Rather than protecting and defending the constitution according to his oath, he chose to upend the constitution by claiming presidents are above the law for actions taken as president.
On July 1st of this year, 237 years after the signing of the US Constitution, a conservative, Republican majority on the Supreme court, with three justices nominated and confirmed under Donald Trump, granted immunity from prosecution for criminal activity by presidents “official actions”. Five of the six justices voting for immunity, and only those five in the long history of the Supreme Court, were confirmed by senators representing less than 50% of the country. This egregiously erroneous decision, with no basis in statute or constitutional text, changed our country from a constitutional republic governed by the rule of law to an elected monarchy governed by the law of the ruler.
This election, we begin peacefully taking our country back by voting for Democrats at all levels of government. Local officials become state officials and state officials become federal officials. There have been few Republican officials at any level who have questioned or condemned this Supreme Court decision. Those who would seek or grant immunity from the law can not be trusted with establishing or executing the law or with interpreting what the law says.
It may take us decades to salvage the rule of law. We will take heart from the examples of Native Americans, Black Americans, and women who marshaled hope and took non-violent action over decades until their rights were guaranteed. I for one will not stop until my right is restored to elect a president who will both faithfully execute AND BE BOUND BY the laws of this great country.
Join me will you! You can text bank, phone bank, do post carding, knock on doors, write letters. The easiest place to begin is your county level Democratic Party! Work more, worry less!
Andy Kim has published one quality statement after another. Each of them has been thoughtful, well informed and empathetic. I hope he wins (he has my vote) and I hope he moves on from the Senate after a cycle or two.
Kim is pretty much the only elected that my son, who worked for several years on the Hill as a Senate staffer, talks about with respect. He's very cynical (did I mention he was a Hill staffer?) but he's a believer when it comes to Andy Kim. Works for me.
I needed the Bulwark today. Thanks for working OT.
Responding to the assassination attempt by pivoting to why a military grade assault rifle is in the hands of a 20 yo kid, is a smart way for Dems to go.
I've said this in a previous comment that the old saw stood up by some 2nd Amendment ideologues is "If a 18 yo can serve in the military, then they should have unregulated access to owning firearms" is not just irresponsible but illogical.
Young people in the military undergo rigorous firearms training, they are closely supervised and access to all weapons is restricted to only certain training exercises (unless they are in a war zone). As a former Marine, I can tell you that safe handling of a rifle or automatic pistol becomes ingrained, muscle memory firmly embedded for a lifetime.
So, the Dems should be encouraged like Tim says to go on the offensive in the gun safety issue -- it alone will not win the election, but it would provide a bit of help that Dems desperately need.
What always "amuses" me is that the qualifications for owing a weapon are far lower than the qualifications for driving a car, or getting a cosmetology license...
The reality is that "...military grade assault rifle is in the hands of a 20 yo kid..." is as American as Cherry pie.
It is so disheartening that the majority of Americans are hostage to the abuse of the second amendment. Our Europeans allies and friends cannot understand how we have made the bargain that guns are more important than the safety of our children and citizens
This was always going to end in violence. The right has been told for years they are up against the wall. The current election is the last chance for them to save democracy. The left is being told that this election will end democracy. The words from the right tend to bear this out.
Gerrymandering has made the primary the election in most cases. The crazies vote more often in the primaries. This has erased the moderate politician. Until we can fix the primaries we can expect more of the same. If Trump wins violence. If Biden wins violence.
But why is the media assuming the would-be assassination has any political motivation at all?
Sure, maybe it does. But Hinkley tried to assassinate Ronald Reagan to impress Jody Foster. Completely looney tunes. This could be anything.
Let's try this for a change.
I'll give you another way to step away from the edge today and in the weeks to come.
When you are tempted to speak in terms of “we” and “they,” pause. Take a breath. Reflect on your own motivation. Take stock of your emotional state.
Ask: Is what I am about to say true? Is it necessary? Is it kind? Is it helpful? Would I want my children to hear me say it?
Would I be able to recognize myself making the same assertions with the protagonists reversed?
And might it not be better said without the foul language?
\Vince S
All that works…if maga actually tries to take down the temperature but they are not. They are stoking that fire. At some point we have to hold people responsible for what they say and do
Migs:
Mr Biden just set the standard in his brief remarks from the Oval Office. Let's see if the forces of MAGA are willing to meet it.
We will find out soon.
\Vince S
I hear you Vincent but we know they won’t. Just wait until you hear what comes out of the Republican convention. I don’t have to seer to see what they will do because they do it every single time.
But would it not be a welcome relief if at least some of the Republicans were to make an effort to act like the "loyal opposition"?
I know! That's a quaint, old-fashioned concept.
Still, one can hope.
\Vince S
I’ll hope with you. I just won’t hold my breath.
My fear is that this is going to get worse not better
Migs:
Let's check back in with each other on Wednesday.
\Vince S
Thank you for this. I thought the debate was a tipping point but reading the comments, we're not alone feeling that this horrible event brought on real despondence and resignation. With regard to an Obama-like hopeful starting point to attempt to unite over this, (and I'm not so naive to think it's going to work, and my apologies to anyone who probably already said this, but) maybe the universe that offers grace to DT also gave us a true hero...the 50-yr old small town PA volunteer firefighter who reportedly looked everywhere for opportunities to help his neighbors, and who threw himself over his children and died protecting them. I think even people with extreme disdain for MAGA can agree this man was as close to an angel on Earth that anyone could find. Perhaps there's a message there for a son of Scranton, and hope for everyone to agree on something. [Again, I'm not so naive to believe it can happen, but it feels somehow better to celebrate a life lived with love and service, than to feel completely lost.]
I wish more people could acknowledge that there are millions of good people who support Trump.
They might change if they learn how his stated economic policies will damage us but there's no outlet that does economic 101
Spend some time on the website of American Compass and you will find out that Econ 101 is not what you think it is. (I write this as someone with a graduate degree in Econ).
Thanks for suggestion.
There were millions of good people who supported hitler. Sometimes choices have consequences
How many times, over many years, have I asked myself why there weren't more attempts to kill Hitler. Comparisons to Hitler have, as you put it, consequences.
lol. The point is people have agency and unlike many many awful leaders you can’t say that our voters don’t have access to massive amount of information on who or what trump is
Thank you for doing this on a weekend. Crazy MAGA people will be energized by this, but I don’t think swing voters are going to look at this and think “oh, poor Trump, he’s such a peace loving man and look what they did to him.” They are going think “he’s been stoking violence for years and it has now been turned against him.” This isnt “victim blaming,” it’s just the truth, and anyone who isn’t delusional knows this. I also don’t agree with the “luck” comment. Even before the shooting. Trump is a psychologically damaged person with no real friends and no sense of himself. He will never be happy. The fact that so many Americans like Trump is just a sign of how psychologically damaged they are. Great closing music - it works on many levels.
I find the claims being made without any support with them very telling.
For the authors, have some grace with the comments in the substack today. Maybe even stop reading, but definitely do not take anything to heart. Just like Sam checking Tim when he said Djt was a lucky sob yesterday, there were some things that needed to not be said here. Temperatures are high & not everyone has someone beside them to slow them down. Public officials should be rightly criticized of course, I'm just talking about our own community here. Just turn the other cheek until people have a minute.
Yes it would be great if maga tried to bring down the temperature. Agreed
Thanks Migs. Here's a really good example authors.
I’m going to be interested in seeing how people (non Maga) respond. If Trump is, as I suspect he will be, blaming Democrats and Biden & spouting the crazy conspiracy theories already out there. This convention is going to be off the chain.
Skimming headlines today has been pretty nauseating.
The song in my head has a line "the world is on fire," from Ghost, Deus in Absentia
Love your choice of music to summarize the end of this episode. It is so appropriate for the moment.
Thanks for this discussion. I found it to be very helpful to get my thoughts straight at this time. And, as an aging hippie (well sort of, but not really), I loved the song at the end.
Nothing to say that hasn't already been said by many here... my sense of ugly dread is even deeper now. I so appreciate that Tim and Sam gave up some of their weekend to talk to us.
Awful. This shouldn’t happen, agreed totally on that.
Violence *shouldn’t* be the answer, but we live in a culture that constantly suggests pulling a trigger is, in fact, the answer. I’m thinking of all those smiling R Congressfamilies wielding assault rifles as their campaign picture. Among 16 billion other data points.
Trump provokes and incites violence. It’s his brand. His central policy proposal: declaring war on half the country. The wrong kind of Americans. I’m honestly surprised someone didn’t try sooner.
I guarantee there are conversations happening right now involving the phrase "they shot first."
Trump has an overactive self-preservation instinct. So my concern is how his demeanor goes from here, and that could be either of two directions:
A best case scenario would be that he comes to the conclusion that running for (or being) president is just not worth it; it's not fun anymore.
A worst case scenario would be that he doubles down and starts calling for the systematic execution of all his enemies.
Trump's reaction to this incident is one thing; the reaction of his sycophants is potentially of greater concern, and it sounds like some (if not a lot) of them are already suggesting the latter scenario.
yikes!
You are right Tim. Luckiest SOB on earth . Wait till we see the convention backdrops. Yes it is horrific and should never happen in America
What I fear are copycats. The shooter was a white, male, 20 year old registered Republican who borrowed his dad's gun. What worries me is the right wing rhetoric coming out right now: they are gonna find a way to blame the Dems, especially when the assassin was one of them. That rhetoric will be going wild at the Republican Convention. I fear Biden will be the next target, or Kamala.
Some of them are already are blaming the Dems.
Thanks Tim. I needed that bonus podcast. Time to watch the ball game.
My initial thought is that suburban women voters, in seeing the photo of Trump with blood on his face, are going to crave a return to normalcy - by electing the quintessential "non-Trump" type candidate, such as a Gina Raimondo.
They will want someone who is a responsible technocrat who will steer the nation back to sanity and has the brains to do so successfully. Biden needless to say is inextricably associated with the past, not only tied to the Trump years but also the Obama and even Clinton years.
My instinct is that now more than ever - post shooting - the voters will want someone fresh and clean and highly capable.
Very surreal, bad mushrooms times right now.
Also, I feel like somebody's mom saying this rather than a 33 year old man, but please be careful you Bulwark people going to Milwaukee. I'm looking forward to your coverage, but it's more than fine to cover this remotely.
Always grateful for this community.
Yes, it would be wise to be careful. Yesterday as folks were made to leave the rally some turned toward the press pen and blamed them for what happened.
President Biden is reacting appropriately, as are the Ds I've seen. Some Rs are already planning investigations into Biden sending a hit squad to kill Trump, and want him arrested. Immunity only for Rs, I guess.
Yes, Biden behaved exactly as I expected. He got himself before the cameras as soon as he could to condemn what had happened. Just like he did on January 6. He was the first to speak out that day.
Lordy, I wish if nothing else this could unify people on common sense gun laws. I’m confused about one thing- don’t most dictators want to make sure the citizenry don’t have access to guns? What are the chances that a Trump admin would round the horseshoe on that in some ways?
Maybe you recorded this after Biden’s statements this morning, but I think his speech was presidential and calming. Godspeed to Sam next week!
Tina, Trump will never try and enact any gun control legislation because it would enrage too many of his/the Republican base. Besides, as he (essentially) said on Jan 6th when told that people were coming armed to the rally: so what, they're not coming to harm me.
Agree he would never go against the base during his campaign. If he regains power, he would only consider restrictions if he were concerned about his own safety and power.
Very much agree with your second sentence.
I wonder if SCOTUS will take the issue of AR-15's seriously when they return.
No way...none of them have served in military service, much less seen how a body can be torn apart by such metal mayhem.
I think they think that they are the only people with guns. (Until they want to blame us for a shooting, of course)
Thanks, Tim & Sam, for helping Bulwarkers process this ~ As my daughter said, “I so wish we could be living in precedented [“normie”] times”…
Sorry. Also. Thanks for this podcast
Perfect song
Is there a way to share stuff that is on X or other Social sites in some way other than to go to the sites themselves? I understand (I guess) why you guys still need to go there, but I don't want to, and am not sure adding traffic to those places helps cure our ills.
Yet I would like to read Representative Kim's statement (If you're reading Congressman, I checked your web site too).
When Lincoln was shot he wore a coat embroidered with “One Country, One Destiny.” I’ve turned to those 4 words to help me process this moment. This assassination attempt was one of the worst events I’ve seen in our democracy. It feels like we are a country unmoored…THREAD
I’ve never experienced a time more unpredictable yet with such generational consequence. So what does this particular moment mean? I remembered a passage in a book I read. “Power and violence are opposites; where the one rules absolutely, the other is absent.” 2/10
The deep unease we carry is in part the fact that we witnessed with the shooter one person trying to use the means of violence to impose their will upon a nation of 330 million and subvert the power of people that underlies our very democracy. 3/10
And now trepidation across our nation as “The practice of violence, like all action, changes the world, but the most probable change is to a more violent world.” We fear retaliation, reprisal or escalation. But let us remind ourselves that it doesn’t have to be that way. 4/10
In the aftermath of other recent shocks to our country, we failed to unify and instead sadly grew more divided. I had hoped that these shocks would be what I called defibrillator moments that would shock our irregular heart beats into normal rhythm, but we fell far short. 5/10
It’s not just that our divisions have grown so wide in our country, but our willingness to allow contempt to accompany us. It’s not just a disrespect that we see towards one another, it’s a deeper disregard and a disgust of one another. 6/10
We are losing touch with the understanding that we are all part of something bigger than all of us. As those 4 words of Lincoln - One County, One Destiny - remind us, the commonality we share runs deep and cannot be forgotten or dismissed. 7/10
Violence is cowardice not strength. It is fiercely undemocratic. As we process this shock, we can choose to realize that we’ve gone too far as a society down the path of contempt. We are not each other’s enemy. We are not at war with each other. 8/10
Choosing to unite instead of incite does not mean we dismiss the magnitude of our differences. But it compels us to be cautious and precise about our next steps, our words, and our actions in this unbelievably precarious moment. 9/10
One Country, One Destiny doesn’t mean we all agree, but instead reminds us that we share the same fate. We collectively mourn the death of the rally attendee, we are relieved that Trump wasn’t seriously injured. Now let’s unite around Lincoln’s vision One Country, One Destiny.END
(Via threadreaderapp)
Thank you. Great
YW! I don’t go on there just to kill time anymore but I keep an account because, sadly, it’s still the best place to get *breaking news*. Here’s my tip if you’re a news junkie like me and can’t get your fix elsewhere, I’ve started just googling people I follow and just adding Twitter to the end so I don’t have to deal with garbage content and can bounce directly to (at least what I consider) trusted, well informed sources. Using that as a launch point generally enables me to avoid seeing much toxic shit.
Edit. Oh and also, And Twitter search functionality is horrible. 😁
RE: Enthusiasm. Right now 5 of the top 6 "Movers and Shakers" in clothing on Amazon are Trump hats. Perhaps its astroturfing, or perhaps Trump supporters are suddenly willing to be visible.
"You Missed" and "Bulletproof" are the top Amazon movers in Handmade Items.
How about a "Sending Thoughts and Prayers, Donald" for the liberals?
In my area they've not been shy prior to this weekend. One component of their enthusiasm has long been to BUY MORE of whatever he's selling, especially as a show of their support at stress points (indictments, arraignments, convictions, etc.): hats, flags, truck decals, shirts, bibles. The NFTs and gold shoes were a bit too pricey for the SS check folks tho...
Wait till he cuts their SS checks.
Democrat response to this should *not* include any policy items. Kim's statement is the direction for their reaction to the shooting and the election: It's about the Union. It's about E pluribus unum. Granted that he was fighting a Civil War, but Lincoln is not remembered for his policy prescriptions.
Still sick to my stomach. This feels like a Reichstag moment. I'm also sick of all the "violence is never the answer" posts. All this country does is gaslight me, because if that was true then we would have gun reform laws. America is perfectly fine with violence, gun violence in particular. We just have a 'moment of silence' for every child who has laid down their life for the Second Amendment and we move on.
This is the most cowardly, craven, greedy nation, built on a paper tiger of strength and freedom. None of our politicians have any courage. I'm ready to sell or throw away 90% of my shit, pack my car, and just move to Mexico.
Steve Scalise said the left's rhetoric "charged the shooter." He also said that mass shootings were just something we have to live with to have a strong 2nd Amendment.
I am hesitant to make derogatory statements about Steve Scalise, but he is clearly the prime example of someone who faced death by gunfire and learned nothing from it. The only excuse I can give for him is that his cancer has now spread to his brain.
What an asshole!
If these derelicts where given comments from Trump without attribution, they'd condemn them...because they are such good Christians.
I agree, violence is not the answer. I'm afraid the Republican Convention will only stoke the flames of violence against Dems. Democrats need to be use Rep. Kim's statement. One country; one destiny and use that as their mantra from here onward... especially at the convention. United we are stronger 🇺🇸
One good thing happened: https://www.politicususa.com/2024/07/14/democrats-abandon-effort-to-remove-joe-biden-as-nomnee.html
That's pretty much what I was thinking yesterday afternoon (it happened at 3:12p my time). Trump’s supporters are going to be so amped up on his martyrdom after this that even if the Democrats ran Jesus Christ they'd lose.
A deeply depressed agreement.
I hereby retract all my calls for a switch to Kamala Harris.
It's not that I think any less of her as the best candidate for our country; it's that I now think it just doesn't matter anymore which Democratic candidate we have.
I hope to be proven wrong, and that Joe Biden stays strong and healthy and manages to bring forth a real political "miracle."
Trump surely has luck (i.e. Cannon's decision this morning!) but Biden, a devoted Catholic, might still receive a miracle.
Indeed. And the Cannon decision is one more reason I'm in danger of losing my breakfast this morning.
Biden is weak, frail, and will be crushed in November.
Disagree.
Just last week, North Carolina Lt. Gov Mark Robinson, who is running for governor, said "some folks need killing." Trump has promised "I am your retribution." Talk is cheap. But on July 1, the Supreme Court bestowed upon the presidency the ability to use the levers of power without any constraint of the law. That ruling adds immeasurable value to the cheap talk.
This is the pall that hangs over us. Now that presidents may wield presidential power unbound by the law, only an election or impeachment can rein in a president, and certainly carte blanche political power can make quick work of such nuisances. That would leave citizens with no recourse but to bear arms for themselves.
Tell me if you disagree. Please prove to me I'm wrong.
Otherwise, this is where we are. It is 1775 all over again. The presidency potentially has far more tyrannical power against us citizens than George III could have ever dreamed of having. In six months, we may all find ourselves fighting for our lives against tyranny. Or not. It's entirely up to them. Just remember they said "some folks need killing." As fantastical as this sounds, such a scenario is extremely possible.
The pictures of Trump with blood on his face and his fist in the air after surviving a bullet will win him the election. We shall watch with horror as America exalts Trump this week. It's over. The era of King Trump I is upon us.
Glad you brought this up; I posted this last week:
I'm concerned w/ all the focus on the "should he stay or go" discussions, some very important info isn't being given the attention it deserves. For example, did anyone hear about this jaw-dropping rant from GOP candidate for NC gov. (my home state) in HCR's newsletter a couple of days ago?
"The extremism of the MAGA Republicans was on display in another way today as well after The New Republic published a June 30 video of North Carolina lieutenant governor Mark Robinson, currently the Republican nominee for governor of North Carolina, saying to a church audience about their opponents—whom he identified in a scattershot speech as anything from communists to “wicked people” to those standing against “conservatives”—"Kill them! Some liberal somewhere is gonna say that sounds awful. Too bad!... Some folks need killing! It's time for somebody to say it.” "
Sow the wind ...
Is it the case that violence is just fine when it comes to mass shooters in Las Vegas or about any school but it's a heinous crime when it comes to this sort of shooting? Why be selective.? We certainly shouldn't be surprised. The rally crowd is lucky the gunman was not particularly good at aiming and really lucky that he didn't have a bump stock. Should we all now give our thoughts and Prayers?
Objectively, DT is ridiculously lucky. If this Universe is a simulation as some suggest, some programmer is fucking with the random number generator
Putting aside yesterday's truly horrible event. From a 35,000' level, this man's 78 year stretch of luck is uncanny, and eerie. Inexplicable, almost.
Almost like he made a deal with the devil….lol
There was an old saying that goes "The Devil takes care of his own." I've called up that statement in my mind many, many times since 2016.
I'm afraid Mephistopheles may be more real than we knew.
It was his daddy's gun.
Trump has become one of the many victims of mass shooters. That is a fact.
Same as Scalise. But they still fear the NRA more than assault rifles.
this wouldn't even qualify for a "mass shooter" by definition.
So we have another mass shooting from a young man. It will take weeks to flesh out if the motive was political or just a high profile way to commit suicide by cop. If we use what has become standard language (sadly) for mass shootings instead of blazing ASSASSINATION on everything then the temperature may cool down more quickly.
Others here have already cited David Frum's piece in the Atlantic today. I found this paragraph especially to the point:
"Fascist movements are like secular religions. Like all religions they offer martyrs as their proof of truth. The Mussolini movement in Italy built imposing monuments to its fallen comrades. The Trump movement now improves on that: the leader himself will become the martyr in chief, his own blood the basis for power and vengeance."
Frum also states categorically there can be nothing but condemnation for this attempted assassination. Violence can never be the answer, ever. I hardly know what to say today.
I found myself fairly disappointed in the content of this podcast. I find that Tim and Sam are doing what the media has been doing for 10 years (for good reasons but still frustrating): realizing that the problem has been mostly caused by Trump and republicans and yet it’s somehow the democrats job to fix our politics. I watched the reaction after this tragic event and almost every single Democratic office holder has come out and condemned all acts of violence including Nancy pelosi who’s husband was attacked because of politics and was attacked by almost every single Republican lawmaker afterwards. Then I see the Republican reaction to this event by lying and bringing the temperature up.
You cannot expect for the politics to change if one side refuses to change. You can’t expect one side to uphold all political norms while the other side tramples on said norms. At some point you have to expect Republican voters or Republican leaders to force change even if they have to lose elections. The problem is they have been given this choice many many times over the last 20 years and the republicans have chosen not to take the off-ramp.
I’m disappointed as well and couldn’t agree more with your comment. I hope this is not an indication of the change that Sam’s addition to the Bulwark is bringing. Because I love the Bulwark precisely because they don’t usually do this sort of thing.
I'm willing to give Tim and Sam the benefit of the doubt, considering how raw all of this is. But I agree with you that it's totally asymmetric. Unfortunately I don't see an off-ramp.
Like I said I understand why they are doing it. It’s almost subconscious because they know that republicans will not turn down the temperature. They will not stop calling for violence. So they hope that if one side does it it will help our politics but we have seen for 10 years it won’t.
There has been no president in my lifetime that has done more to try and bring down the temperature. He is so apolitical. He barely uses trump’s name. What has the response been? Republicans just make up more shit and continue to increase the temperature
Falsehoods and the threat of violence are now the Republican brand, because the MAGA component thrives on it. It's hopeless to expect it to change until Republicans are trounced again and again at the polls.
I know. Shit I don’t. They have been losing for like 6 years and they still aren’t changing. Honestly I’m at a loss for what to do but always expecting dems to fix things may feel good to say but isn’t the solution.
Leros, this is exactly what I wanted 4 years ago. To have Biden retreat from the public to take down the temperature. To not make the presidency into reality tv. He has done this admirably. He has had tons of opportunities to go on attack (his impeachment, the debt ceiling, the debt cliff, his son being forced to testify to congress, conviction of his son, the Paul pelosi incident, trump trials, trump’s rape case, trump’s fraud case, etc). He has suffered in popularity with his base because they don’t see him fighting. I thought that doing all this economic populism in red states instead of doing structural reform.
I can say I was wrong. The only way to cause change is to do power politics. Maybe if he did this we would still be here. But taking down the temperature, or at least trying too, has failed.
Obama is partially why we are here (not his fault at all). Flowery beautiful speeches make some of us feel good (me included) but they haven’t worked
It made sense after the insanity of Jan. 6 for Biden to try to take down the temperature. After all, part of his narrow Electoral College victory (and it was narrow-we should not fool ourselves into thinking otherwise) was reasonably thought to be due to Biden's appeal as a "normal" President. But it's clear in retrospect how wrong that view was. All it did was give MAGA time to regroup and have the rest of the non-MAGA Republican lapdogs fall in line to save themselves from being primaried out of office. Hopefully we have learned the lesson you suggest: only power politics works.
Yep. It sucks too. Trying to do the right thing but your opponent just sees it as weakness.
The fundamental problem for dems in power politics is that because of the senate and the court they are the weaker party.
The 20-year-old shooter's motive will matter as people digest and form opinions about the event All that's been reported so far is that he was a registered Republican and that he made a $15.00 contribution to the Progressive Turnout Project via Act Blue in January 2021, so his motives are unguessable at this point. If it turns out he did what he did because he had come to believe Trump was a Hitler-level threat to the country's future as a democracy, three things are likely to happen: Biden's existing support will not change much ; Trump true-believers will probably become even more inclined to go out and vote; and some undecided's will now swing to Trump out of pity for him. The only possible good that comes from this is that Trump may decide that a nationwide ban on the sale and possession of AR-15's is a really good idea after all.
...and some undecideds may swing AWAY from MAGA due to the crazed rhetoric about 1776 and returning fire. As Tim mentioned, stasis in a majorly divided electorate.
I like your summer fantasy about Trump suddenly going pro-assault-weapon ban. Nixon to China and all that? It would be one of the few things he could do to gain voters from the undecided normie middle. I don't think it will happen but could move more votes than this shooting, in my opinion. The catch is that he's such a well-established liar that they may discount any such proposal he makes?
Trump will wait, and if he's elected, he will come for the guns. Now it's on his retribution radar and will only get higher if he entangles the shooter with his contempt for his own base.
TIM and SAM: Thanks for this pod. It is exactly the even-toned perspective we needed right now.
And the exit track was awesome.
Sorry, i refuse to be a fatalist. Sure it helps him. That said, here are his remark's (written by someone else) and posted on truth:
"From DJT:
"Thank you to everyone for your thoughts and prayers yesterday, as it was God alone who prevented the unthinkable from happening. We will FEAR NOT, but instead remain resilient in our Faith and Defiant in the face of Wickedness. Our love goes out to the other victims and their families. We pray for the recovery of those who were wounded, and hold in our hearts the memory of the citizen who was so horribly killed. In this moment, it is more important than ever that we stand United, and show our True Character as Americans, remaining Strong and Determined, and not allowing Evil to Win. I truly love our Country, and love you all, and look forward to speaking to our Great Nation this week from Wisconsin.
🙏 DJT
Read it and then overlay it to the bullshit we will here non-stop during this next week. Throw in the hundreds of emails soliciting donations by trump using this as his linchpin. They will immediately go to that place where extremism is at their core.
The differences in actions and reactions will become a powerful tool. I read comments from posters who don't seem too upset by what happened. We/you should be.
It is the defining difference between us and them. Once the democratic convention is over, our message has to be just that...we are better than they are.
Honestly, that statement is quite chilling in and of itself if you think about it in the context of who Trump really is.
A list of the many times, the Orange Snake has called for open violence: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/14/2254169/-He-Wanted-Violence-He-got-it?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=trending&pm_medium=web
We are here in these dangerously fraught times because we missed the chance to stop the slide. Tim and Sam are correct that if the Senate Republicans had any courage, Trump would have been hobbled, although martyrdom was possible. Now it’s probable - likely.
My sense of doom has grown like a mushroom overnight. I live 5 miles from the Convention Center for the RNC. My son works there often, but declined this work, thank goodness. What was already very challenging for Milwaukeans has suddenly turned into utter stress, especially for workers and police. Welcome Sam, but not the best time to get to know what a lovely city Milwaukee is. Regardless of trump’s gross insults.
This has nothing to do with politics but I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoyed Milwaukee when I visited several years ago when they hosted the Skate America Competition in 2015. I am a native Chicagoan living in Virginia now and met my sister up there- ate a great meal at Mader's( is is still there?) and bought some wonderful spices in a little shop whose name I can not remember. My sister and I grew up skating and attended many competitions - cancer took her from me 3 years ago but I will always have great memories like those in your lovely city. Stay safe up there!
I suppose my first response upon learning of the assassination attempt should have been a sense of abhorrence that presidential candidate was shot at. I suppose that deep down, that thought was there, but I first began thinking of how Trump will use the event to his advantage. Yes, he's conditioned to respond with an eye on the dramatic. He's done "battle" with Vince McMahon and played a business mogul on a reality TV show, so he knows how to dupe an audience. He's also aware of his "warrior" image -- surreal memes of him with a shirtless Rambo bod sporting a big fucking gun. So of course once the Secret Service gave the all clear to move order, he popped his head up to exhort "his" people to "fight, fight, fight!" It's not certain if he consciously connected this with his J6 command to violence, or if given his limited mindset, it's his go-to response. After all, "retribution" like his MAGA tribe, are simplistic in nature.
Trump now has the opportunity to become a great president. Like your average American who might innocently attend school, the movies, or a concert, he's a potential victim to random gun violence. That experience could transform him into something other than the sociopathic narcissist he's proven to be. He could step into the presidency as a true and decent leader, ready to cultivate the essential decency of most Americans.
Or he could conflate the shooter with the members of Congress who impeached him, the current president who rightly accuses him, the special counsel and DA's who prosecute him, and the judges who rule against him. He could further degrade our country's politics and judicial system by exhorting his tribe to "Fight! Fight! Fight!" and lose lives in the process of his retribution.
To be honest, this is a no brainer.
Agreed. And to cite an example that supports your final sentence: Steve Scalise. Being shot and having cancer really made a compassionate, moderate conservative out of him. /s
Trump is incapable of changing. He is a completely unfeeling person who conditions everything on how it benefits him. The problem is he's making certain others also become him. As Theoden said in LOTR Two Towers, "what can one do against such reckless hate?" Aragorn's answer, "Ride out and fight them." Praying Americans will do that very soon.
Good choice of the Buffalo Springfield for this one.
Wonderful, wonderful band. Brilliant music. Steve Stills was my first infatuation. But one ironic bit of trivia on today's use of the song. The 'Buffalo Springfield' was actually one of three types of gun used by the army to decimate the plains Bison in the 1800's. To deprive the Plains native people of their lifeline.
I have read where the band took the name "Buffalo Springfield" from the name of a tractor.
Interesting. I wonder what the name meant to the band.
Neil Young wrote many deeply moving songs, some of which have seemed somehow in homage to the Indians. "Broken Arrow" being probably the most obvious. The story is that they saw the name on a street steamroller somewhere, and figured it was a cool combination of name and object. But I've always wondered if there wasn't something more to the name. Album covers seemed maybe so. And weren't album covers the greatest? This retired hippie thinks so! ✌️
I like that we to go to Twitter, the leading site for misinformation and hate, to find out what Bill Maher has to say about violence.
I know y'all are saying we don't know how this will affect the election, and I get it, but this just made it so much likelier he'll win. I think this freezes the Democratic conversation on replacing Biden- it's too political and inconsequential now in light of the assassination attempt. We're going to be stuck with Biden now, he's going to have at least one more major episode between now and the election, and juxtapose that with the guy in that instantly iconic AP photo, blood streaming down his face with the American flag somehow levitating in the sky behind him, fist in the air, and we're screwed. Maher is right about the man's incredible luck. Someone trying to kill him sealed the election for him.
Feels like it today. But ALL who can must do all we can to get Biden out, 10 days ago. Call your reps & senators daily, call WH, keep going. I wish the pollsters would talk to my Black female friends—who won’t vote if it’s Biden.
Sorry, but Ds are now united for Biden. Give it up, PLEASE! https://www.politicususa.com/2024/07/14/democrats-abandon-effort-to-remove-joe-biden-as-nomnee.html There are more of us who want him than don't.
Biden said the other eve to ignore polls (just before citing one—ugh). There were already more registered Dems who didn’t want him to run even before the debate. I have been a reliable Biden supporter for years and work hard for the Dems every election. But the situation is disastrous. Demoralization about his very bad odds is making it so hard for other Dems and for volunteers.
I don't know if I said this on one of the other articles. But . . . A couple of days ago I got a survey email from Qualtrics (?) - can't remember the spelling. But from checking Google then, apparently, they do a lot of surveys/polls. The first question was will you vote 0 means no you won't, 10 means definitely you will. Then the number choices from 1 to 10 were listed in rows for me to check. Here's the weird part. 0 had become definitely will vote, and 10 became definitely will not vote. So, which was it? I choose not to answer, and they ended the questions. How many people answered 1 or 10 and didn't realize the numbers were reversed? If that's a sample of a poll, seems rather sloppy and worthless. So I'm ignoring them for the most part unless they have a detailed explanation of how they're doing them.
And BTW, polls are starting to give Biden the edge or even odds. LOL!
Biden will lose to Trump. Keeping him on the ticket is political suicide.
Replacing him THIS LATE IN THE ELECTION YEAR is political suicide.
Look, please read this:
1. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/13/2253945/-Lead-follow-or-get-out-of-the-way
2. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/13/2253917/-DEMOCRATS-DO-IT-AGAIN
3. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/7/13/2253824/-The-destructive-demand-for-Biden-to-quit-is-as-absurdly-stupid-as-it-is-physically-impossible Note: This writer is angry and a bit coarse and a bit nasty. But his points are very valid. It is IMPOSSIBLE to replace Biden, assuming you can even get an agreement as to who should it be. "Due to timing and election processes, red state Republicans are already poised to refuse to put anyone other than Biden on their state ballots. Like here in Georgia, there are over twenty states run with a Republican supermajority." "Red state Republicans are standing ready with malicious compliance with regards to their state election rules and are prepared to not put any other candidate other than Biden on the ballot. Biden quits? No Democratic candidate on ballot and we know the Supreme Court will uphold their decisions."
I hadn't thought about red states refusing to put a replacement on the ballot, but the Democrats will not have an official candidate until after their convention. Right now Biden, like Trump, is just the presumptive candidate. My understanding is that a state has to put the official convention approved candidate on the ballot. Biden will lose to Trump. It's just a fact that Dems have to accept. I'm going to vote for Biden, but I live in a red state that will go for Trump so my vote doesn't count. I don't believe Biden can win all the swing states and this assassination attempt will strengthen Trump significantly. The only chance Democrats have is to put up someone people can get excited about. Biden is not that person.
I have to agree. The absolute last thing that needs to happen was for someone to assassinate Trump. Fortunately for all of us it did not succeed. If it had, things would be much, much worse.
All I can hope now is he has some belief in heaven and hell and this near brush with death has him thinking very hard about the fate of his soul, and maybe he'll be a changed man and try to be better than the worst human in the country, which is what he is. I hope that all the pandering bs he spews that Evangelicals eat up maybe has penetrated with him on some subconscious level, and maybe there is some belief in there somewhere, some concern over the hereafter, and an idea that God spared him to give him a chance to change course. Maybe he'll be a changed man. Or, likelier, maybe his retributive impulses just get turbo charged.
I don't believe in god, but I'm hoping Trump does on some level. Because Trump 47 is coming.
"Maybe he'll be a changed man. Or, likelier, maybe his retributive impulses just get turbo charged." Likely the latter but we could at least hope for the former. After all even George Wallace changed after he was shot and paralyzed.
No way in hell will this put a dent in Trump’s ego or humble him one single bit. If he does believe in hell, he’s convinced he’s not going there because he’s “the best”. His followers in The Free Press comments think he survived because GOD saved him and that’s because GOD has a plan for Trump. GOD has sent Trump to save the country, and this assassination attempt was a message from GOD that Trump is our savior. Trump is enough of an egomaniac to believe this as well.
Thanks Tim and Thanks Sam for taking the time to do this emergency podcast.
Thanks for giving me a lot to think about. I creeped on this slowly this morning. Not willing to start dealing with what this would mean going forward. I remember thinking and this has to be the only response.
Whatever the question, in politics, culture, whatever...the answer is NEVER violence.
Everybody stay safe with you and yours. Lots of work ahead.
No depressing fatalism about trump winning in the Bulwark family, Sam has it all? 🤷♀️🤬
This is all an outcome of our inability to bring Trump to justice for his crimes on Jan 6. Our lack of grip and our bureaucratic inertia has allowed a man who attacked the United States to run for President again. SCOTUS is no doubt corrupt and has applied undeserved care to protect Trump, but Garland and the Biden administration have much to answer for.
The Dems did their best to support the rule of law. The GOP had two opportunities to convict Trump on impeachment charges. They failed, not the Dems and the GOP members who were true to their oaths of office.
Note: they didn’t do their best. Complete failure is not ‘their best’.
Oh, gosh, how to make an old lady cry. As soon as the Buffalo Springfield opening chords began, I started to get chills, and thought in my lifetime, it seems nothing has changed, or it's gotten worse. Thank you Sam and Tim for organizing my thoughts a bit, but that song at the end brought back every memory of my youth, and just about did me in.
Another me too - in college in 1968 - that song always gives me chills and so apt for our current times.
I always associate For What it's Worth with the Watts riots, although it was not about that. It just seemed to epitomize the way things felt at the time. We had moved away from the Watts area not long before the riots. I remember not being able to reach my friends because they wouldn't answer the phone for fear of signaling that someone was home. Time is a circle it seems.
Same
Me too Judy. I remember growing up in the 60's, turn on any radio and this stuff poured out perfectly matching the times and how I felt.
Just a quick note. Sometimes 'violence is the answer'. Violence was the answer in the war with Japan. Violence was the answer when we hunted down bin Laden. Trump is not a normal political opponent. I cannot say with a straight face that he does not deserve a bad outcome. He has attacked us, as a nation, he has reveled in violence, and mocked and belittled people who were the victim of violence. He does not deserve anything from us.
Don’t forget that Trump tweeted during the coup that Mike Pence was not on their side and the mob screamed “Hang Mike Pence”. I’m willing to bet that the Majority of the MAGA fans at home were praying for the death of Mike Pence in order to keep Trump in office. I wish the pollsters asked right after the failed coup “Would you approve VP Pence being hung if that would have kept Trump in Office?”
Is anyone able to watch the podcast and not just listen to it on the Bulwark website? There is just a still picture of Trump's bloodied face( please don't do that to us!!)
I can click on Youtube to the right and watch it there but I can not stand the random interruptions of commercials on Youtube. Your other podcasts have audio and video both- I just checked!!
I have always been able to watch on the Bulwark website( I so wish you Bulwark folks would have an app that would work on Roku to watch ad free on an actual television- If Yoga with Adrienne can have Youtube and an ad free app on streaming devices for her membership, you guys should too! ;) I say this with love!
I never want to see Trump's face; I never want to hear his voice. Also, while with my kids today, I have not had a chance to listen yet.
My, largely ignorant, gut reaction is that the image none of us want to see (Trump's bloodied face) is so important for us to see. To remind us, viscerally, that violence is not the answer.
I wanted to see Tim and Sam's face on the video, not the still picture of Trump. So I watched it on Youtube and there was only one commercial at the beginning which is very atypical. There are usually several during the podcast and they interrupt the speaker in mid sentence- thus my plea for an app so not forced to watch on the web browser.
Once again, Tim (and Sam) put it on the Dems to be rational in the midst of chaos. Dems have to be careful, Dems have to be considered. Again, the reactive right gets a pass. Biden released a measured and calm statement (not good enough for these two though; Biden's "diminished). And he phoned Trump. When Nancy Pelosi's husband was bludgeoned with a hammer, Trump himself, let alone his minions, made jokes for weeks.
You are 100% right Tim. He will parley this event and capitalize on furthering more violence and division during the convention and beyond. His luck never seems to run out. The historic times we are living through is a never ending nightmare. If only we could turn the page and read about it instead of being drug around in the muck day in and day out. I feel we have some extremely strong arguments that resonate with millions of voters. Project 2025, woman’s abortion rights, the economy. Let us not get sidetracked and lose our focus. The gop is going to be loud and ugly. We have to focus on getting the undecided aboard and United with the rest of us to win against trump and his pernicious agenda.
It is very difficult, but we cannot give up.
Like trump said fight fight fight. The cost if we don’t unite is so clear.
Seems like you could have spent the 38 minutes giving example after example of trump's rhetoric and posting of violence against others. And then spent another hour giving example after example of what was posted yesterday by member of congress and high profile people on the right.
Maher assumed it was a liberal, but it turned out to be a confused, unhappy young man who had easy access to a semi-automatic. How does this make liberals look bad? Aren't we the ones saying people with issues shouldn't have access to high-powered guns? Aren't we the ones saying we want to solve problems through government? Maher claimed to be "oh so concerned about Trump and happy he didn't die," but he jumped to sizing up how this would reflect on the election the very first thing. Maher has joined Musk on X---both displaying their mutual dislike of liberals. Go to the dark side, Bill, you've got more than one foot in it already.
He’s definitely heterodox, but I appreciate his consistent anti Trump stance.
Susan, you are right on Democratic position on guns. Early reporting does suggest it was a young man with a semi, and/but his political tendencies are confusing, donated to progressive cause but also registered Republican. Even if he had absolutely pure MAGA bona-fides, the far-right would invent some theory that he was really... (fill in the blank with some wacko idea).
I heard something entirely different from Maher though, and granted, he is a provocateur who will take alternate sides depending on the issue and the moment. That said, in this clip, it seemed he was definitely identifying with liberals and the liberal cause.
Whether, in his heart of hearts, he really wishes Trump were dead, perhaps by natural causes, is not explicit here, but I believe him when he says he didn't want this to be the day it happened for the reason he offered -- an assassination would fuel more violence and would be blamed on Trump's political opponents as a matter of course, as it already has been (J.D. Vance, etc.).
So Maher is edgy, but he genuinely believes, IMHO, that no good can come of this.
He gave $15 to a group advocating voter registration when he was 17. When he was 18, he registered as a Republican. At 20, he was dead. Clearly had issues.
Maher is a patchwork quilt of clashing patterns & incompatible fabrics.
Honestly, I really need a hug.
I hear you. We all do for sure.
::passes hug to you::
🌷keep it going🫶🏼
Awwwwwwwww. Here's one.
Thank you 🪷 it’s strange but that actually helps a little bit. Human brains are awesome.
Any time! I’ve asked for hugs from strangers on more than one occasion. Not ashamed:) Let me know if there is anything else I can do.
I would just ask that you keep being you 🫶🏼
I shall assume that as a solemn responsibility - thanks, Lana :)
Thanks to Tim for the bonus podcast in these crazy times.
The majority of reactions to the events of Saturday were that it was “Political Violence”. Much of the immediate press reaction was to review the both-sides scorecard of politicians who have been victims of violence. While none of that is wrong, I would beg to differ that “Political Violence” is a secondary argument….As Human Beings we are hard-wired to be pattern seekers. The first 2 “political” pieces of evidence that emerged about the shooter provided no pattern at all: he was a registered Republican and had given $15 to a progressive organization. The third piece of evidence from the shooter's former classmate was that he was severely bullied in High School fits a long and tragic pattern that “hurt people, hurt people”. The fact that the victim in this case was arguably the world’s most iconic Bully (and about whom it’s often observed that “cruelty is the point”) should be one of the least shocking parts of why this terrible event happened.
There is no doubt this event will be used as a Political tool and makes everything about this election season even more precarious than it already is. As Tim said, we need to be the “Grown-ups”. Can’t we all start by amplifying the message of valuing kindness, compassion, and respectful disagreement over cruelty? I love the Bulwark for the very reason that you are one of the vanishingly few organizations built on those principles.
Thanks for the biographical addition
Maybe “Joe” is not diminished- maybe he is DONE with the threats - I will be a participant in peace NOT a victim of a massacre. It takes TWO sides to have peace. CheetoJesus wants my “vermin” mixed US Citizen race family “ gone. Wisconsin fake electors already tried to take away my vote. Now the Democrats wanna take my vote away from Joe to possibly. We are NOT stupid. We are done with when they go low. We go high. When they go low, we will match them until the pain is so great. They stop. Think Grant And the Civil War. George McClellan has retired. https://www.educationindex.com/essay/Grant-vs-Mcclellan-Comare-and-Contrast-FK58ZPRB4Z
Oh, Lordy...
This is a win-win for the MAGAts.
They now have the "bloody shirt," but instead of pencil drawings of Civil War battle shirts in the 1880s, there is 21st-century video/Social media footage to create St. Trump.
The left will be hamstrung by being accused of politicizing the issue.
BTW - Peckerwood Vance didn't wait hours before accusing Biden that the shooting is a result of "HIS RHETORIC!!!"
I lived through the 1960s and 1970s when the cities were places of skirmishes and riots.
But the feeling in America today is much different...the issue isn't "over there" in cities.
It's now all around in small towns, greeny suburbia, as well as the cities.
On this, Christopher: "The left will be hamstrung by being accused of politicizing the issue., I thought Tim and Sam eked out a little something that could work as a message: a 20 year-old with a gun. Of course it would probably have to be sandwiched in between some genuinely unifying language à la Andy Kim but dumbed down for the audience.
Unfortunately, Laura, Tim, Sam and Andy are the sentient outliers.
Mark my words, when the Trumps mined gold with his "mug shot," they'll be going platinum with his bloody face on t-shirts, mugs, posters, etc.
Of course they will! I agree with most of what you wrote, including the idea that this event does do some hamstringing. In a Marist poll with data through March 2024, 20% of Americans (12% of Democrats, 18% of Independents, and 28% of Republicans strongly agree or agree that Americans have to resort to violence to get our country back on track. Whence the "joking" among one in ten (seems a conservative estimate) of our friends about the shooter's aim. Violent rhetoric is rubbing off on many, despite clear FBI, Southern Poverty Law Center, Wiesenthal etc. stats making it abundantly clear the main domestic terrorism action is on the right. Thing is, hard for any party to keep its nose completely clean, and/or to avoid the perception that it has failed to do so. I may have veered off a little in this comment:)
I don’t disagree but I have been hearing that “anything and everything” helps trump. Try a coup…helps Trump. Steal documents…helps Trump. Sleep with a pornstar while your wife is pregnant…helps Trump. Charge Trump for tax fraud…helps Trump. Run Biden…helps Trump. Run Kamala…helps Trump.
Shit it may all be true but if it’s true than we were fucked no matter what happens or happened. Crazy to say out loud.
Not crazy...
As the writer Mark Leibovich noted in an "Atlantic" magazine article a few months ago...while we like to think of ourselves as uniquely different with only the best intentions, perhaps we should put aside that "malarky" (my words not his), and that the majority of Americans are not what we like to thump our chests about.
~ The Christianity of my youth is not espoused in the current wave of Nationalist Christianity.
~ The reverence for intelligence and pushing forward in science and research has been doused with the fear that facts are true.
~ The 20th-century American tough guy has been hijacked by victims worrying about pronouns.
~ JFKs call almost a half century ago, "...ask now what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country," has been supplanted by the mentality of "I hate the government that gives me improved infrastructure via a Gay Sec'y of Transportation, by those Deep Staters cutting me my welfare checks, that community service I spurned because then I'd be doing that "do-gooder" Deep State stuff."
When I was growing up, few of the WW2 generation festooned themselves with patriotic symbols.
Three immigrant uncles served in WW1
My father and his two brothers served in WW2 as did my Fathers-in-Law (I am divorced)
I was accepted to the U.S. Naval Academy, but had an accident to my foot that forced me to withdraw, but my daughter eventually joined the Navy and served eight years to carry what would have been my enlistment obligation.
My brother and two cousins served during the Viet Nam era. Many of my friends as I moved through adult life also served in the military
My point is this...my family and those friends were/are proud of their duty served, but they did not overtly seeking attention for doing so. They were called and did their duty and went home to family, friends, and work.
A lasting memory I have from watching the movie, "Saving Private Ryan," with my father was at its conclusion his only remarks was ..."maybe now they'll know what we went through,"
This was the man who when we would ask him about his time in war, answered, "I got to see the Eiffel Tower,"
One other off the cuff comments he made while we watched another war movie was, "anyone who glorifies the action of combat was not there to see the results."
My father, as a Medic, survived the war in spite of being called "Old Man Wood," in his early 30s during the European campaign.
I see today, too much of the population celebrating the "Rambo" edition of Americana, who feel good about destroying things, and not so much the "Captain Miller" (Tom Hanks in 'Pvt Ryan), who just wanted to do his duty and go home to teach English and coach the baseball team.
All great insights and goals…unfortunately our country has changed an awful lot…for the worse.
We were obsessed about money and status and everyone (even the people who objectively not..hello Elon) is a victim.
Bill Maher? You’ve lost the plot, Tim!
Well, now that the seal's been broken -- someone took a swing at a former POTUS -- is anyone surprised that yesterday happened? David Frum and David Rothkopf have said it far better than I can this morning, but a man who has stoked and glorified political violence was the target for political violence himself. What did he think was going to happen? What did his supporters and enablers think was going to happen?
Remember, every action has intended and unintended consequences, and sometimes those consequences take a long time to reveal themselves.
Buckle up, people. Shit's about to get far, far worse.
The people in Bari Weiss’s The Free Press comments are 100% behind the idea that this happened because Democrats and liberals have been comparing Trump to Hitler and calling him a fascist. Denouncing Project 2025 as a plan to have an authoritarian fascist government is also at fault according to these people. They think this has riled people up and made them so afraid of Trump that assassination is the only way to stop Trump from regaining the WH. They don’t in any way see Trump promoting violence himself. They literally do not see it, at all. OTOH, they regularly say they expect another civil war to start, and predict it will be the Democrats and “leftists” who start it. They consider Republicans and conservatives to be blameless victims who only want the best for the country, and Trump is a selfless martyr who is sacrificing himself to save us. And the fact that Trump survived this assassination attempt means the GOD saved Trump because GOD has a plan, and GOD intends for Trump to be President. This whole shooting incident was a giant message from GOD. It’s truly scary to read this stuff.
"The people in Bari Weiss’s The Free Press comments are 100% behind the idea that this happened because Democrats and liberals have been comparing Trump to Hitler and calling him a fascist."
I suppose these same people are blissfully unaware that whenever Turning Point USA has an event in anywhere in the country, literal Nazis show up and do their thing. And since TPUSA leader Charlie Kirk is a Trumpist and has done nothing to denounce these people, it's not unreasonable to conclude that Kirk, and by extension Trump, considers such people an integral part of their coalition. Or maybe Bari thinks the guy wearing the Camp Auschwitz sweatshirt on January 6 is a splendid guy who really means her no harm.
One more thing. When Tom Nichols did his take on "The Screwtape Letters" here five years ago, this is how Screwtape described "conservatives" to Wormwood when discussing the latter's patient in Letter 2:
"Your man is not only ambitious, but he is a conservative. In modern America, this means that he feels himself part of an embattled minority trying to do the Enemy’s will in a fallen world. (In some instances, this may well be so, but never let it occur to him that there are many people who share neither his politics nor his particular religion who feel the same way, and who may be doing far better on that score than he.)"
In Letter 7, Screwtape instructed Wormwood:
"Do not fail to use the patient’s religion against him. Tell him that the Old Man would not be where he is were it not the will of the Enemy.
"Now, that this last point is so ridiculous that it could blow up in your face if you do not handle it with great care. A moment of sober consideration will reveal it to be utter twaddle. (After all, what human beings think their opponents are appointed by the Enemy Himself?)
"Because this is such fragile nonsense, you must plant the idea quickly and then just as swiftly prevent your patient from examining the logical contradiction at its core. Instead, impress upon him that he can and should serve the Old Man as a way of serving the Enemy. ***Convincing humans to do evil in the name of the Enemy is still one of our finest maneuvers, and you will find it highly enjoyable.***" (Emphasis mine)
So I guess these people can believe what they wish. And I could believe that I am the smartest, most handsomest engineer to ever walk the earth. But just because we believe something doesn't mean it's true.
Frum’s article I think encapsulated my feelings perfectly - violence is never, ever the answer, but we should not lose sight of the fact that Donald Trump has stoked and encouraged political violence and led us to this worrisome place. I hope him and Republicans will learn from this and tone down their rhetoric, but unfortunately, I’m expecting everyone at the RNC to be out for blood.
I’ve thanked you already for linking the article, and I want to say more that won’t disappear in a “Continue reading” tab.
What a brilliant article David Frum has written. Says everything I’ve been thinking all day - except the part about every decent person being relieved Trump didn’t die, although maybe that just means I’m not a decent person, and in this case I’m ok with that. The fact is that Trump brought this on himself, and as he has sown he is now reaping. I don’t know anything about the person behind him who was killed, but I can’t help wondering what he was doing there. If he wasn’t Secret Service then he had to have known about Trump’s dehumanisation of people he didn’t like, and his glorification of violence, and been ok with it. He may have left behind a family who had nothing to do with MAGA, and I’m sorry for them, but I’m not going to spend huge amounts of time otherwise sending thoughts and prayers to people who won’t do anything except spit on them from the likes of me.
Maybe this has sealed Trump’s victory. If so, JVL is right - it’s what America actively wants. God help us.
Yep, they turn it around. “Violent Dems.” Just like “Dems are fascists.” Such dangerous people, & now they’re being normalized. Or normalized again.
Yes
Where is David Frum’s article please? I’ve been refreshing The Atlantic and not seeing it there.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/07/donald-trump-democracy-dictator/679006/
THANK YOU!
I believe that the modern GOP has no cohesive set of beliefs other than an absolute conviction that they, and they alone, are entitled to rule. They're not a party of introspection. They are not capable of soul searching. And when they talk about "freedom", what they really mean is freedom to behave in all sorts of abhorrent and contradictory ways without consequences.
The party whose members send Christmas cards with their families posing with AR-15s was **thisclose** to having their nominee for POTUS taken out by one. The party whose representative from Georgia accused the sitting POTUS of an attempted assassination now forgets a SCOTUS ruling that would empower a sitting POTUS to do all sorts of nefarious shit so long as it's an official act. We can go on and on about how their spoken belief system is basically a room of funhouse mirrors, but you, me, and everyone else in Bulwark-land already know this. So of course there's going to be calls for blood. Of course they will escalate. If they don't, that's tantamount to treason in their minds.
There is no way any of this ends well, James. No way at all.
I just hope the violence explodes while a Dem still holds the Presidency and thus at least nominal control of the military. Hoping for anything more doesn't seem realistic at this point.
I heard the guy who shot at him was a registered Republican, but I read when he 17 he gave a $15 donation to the Democrats. I bet that a pretty girl had something to do with that last thing.
guy with same name made the donation; wasn't the shooter
Oh, has this been verified?
Ahh. Makes sense.
The reporting I have seen is that the voter registration card and the donation had the same address. If this turns out to be untrue I will update on tomorrow's pod.
Remember that in order to vote in the presidential primary in PA you have to be a registered member of that party to vote in their primary. My guess is that the shooter might have registered as Republican in order to be able to vote in the PA primary for Nikki or someone else. An anti -Trump vote. In the actual election, being registered as Republican doesn't matter. He could have voted for anyone.
Okay.
Thank you Tim and Sam for this quickly delivered podcast- less than 24 hours after the shooting on a weekend. Part of why I value the Bulwark is that you have discussions that help us all work through and process the reality of the moment. To take the time to do this and get it out to us so quickly is very much appreciated. Looking forward to the continued discussion.
My initial reaction was that this could only help Trump, so I was less than thrilled that the shooter had such lousy aim.
But I guess that's a little too "transactional" to recommend as a Democratic comms strategy.
Unfortunately, reciting that "political violence is antithetical to liberal democracy" sounds a bit platitudinous in the current context. (And *pace* H. Rap Brown on that principle anyway.)
A million COVID deaths only heightened the anxiety that contributes to the climate. Would more dead politicians scare the public straight? Hey, just asking questions. 🤦
Excuse me. One side is not just as bad as the other.
It. Is. Not. Even. Close.
Violence is not the answer. No shit. Then why is it always given as the answer?
And why is the narrative going to be any different than after a mass shooting? Lack of mental health support, weakness in identifying high-risk students, access to guns and explosives. Politics was a faux cause I bet. Trump is being made a hero on the back of a pathetic older adolescent boy. A classmate just said in an interview that the suspect was bullied every day. He ate lunch by himself in his military dress. I see red flags but not if the Antifa type.
J.D. Vance is correct. This shooting is not a one off. This shooter may have more in common with the fragile, mentally impaired young men who walk into schools and kill students with an assault weapon.
Of course JD is right about large numbers of disturbed young men with some "need" to kill people. But please don't make have to say JD was right about anything EVER AGAIN! 🙃
I hope, too, that this is the last of J.D.’s being right. Do you think this whole narrative could shift if the FBI does not find this guy is affiliated with any political or idealogical group? I wonder how significant it is that he was rejected from the Rifle Club? Sorry but my psychoanalytic training steers me to the deeper motivations.
The Honorable Mike Collins of Georgia, must be so happy that Biden would have immunity claims if the accusation proves true.
You ask what Dems should do? Here’s an idea…
Introduce legislation for the DONALD J. TRUMP ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN
An AWB still wouldn't stop an assassin with a bolt-action rifle like Lee Harvey Oswald had (he landed that head shot on a *moving* target) or a lowered-capacity semi-auto rifle.
True. But these morons don’t think like that. Big man must have big gun to feel like bigger man. ‘Murica…
Def a men-with-guns problem. You don't see women with access to the exact same firearms doing what men do with them at scale (mass-shootings, domestic violence killings, assassinations, etc.).
What do you think of this? My senator, Chris Murphy, has been trying to *solve* the loneliness crisis in America. It’s interesting, but idk how government involvement will be received in a lot of the places in which the crisis is at its worst.
Here’s a POLITICO piece on it from last year. There are a bunch of others and videos of Murphy talking about it. It will be great if they can figure out a way to get people involved with each other irl again.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/05/sen-chris-murphy-wants-to-help-you-make-friends-00125372
People are always going to slip through the cracks of programs like that. Even during the national AWB of ‘94-‘04 we had: North Hollywood Shooting, Columbine, and the DC Sniper, and this was at a time when the modern loneliness problem didn’t exist and AWs were restricted. Before the AWB expired there were something like 10,000 AR-15s in circulation. Now there are 20,000,000 in circulation. Ain’t no putting that genie back into the bottle.
Yeah, there would have to be a MASSIVE buyback campaign and I am not sure if the federal government would have enough money to compensate people for what they think their guns are worth.
There'd also probably be a bunch of Waco/Ruby Ridge-style events if something like that (somehow) managed to make it past a senate filibuster.
That’s the best idea yet!
LOL
Hah. It sure beats renaming Dulles airport after him.
It’s the guns! It’s ALWAYS the guns. You know that #2ndAmendment stuff
ALWAYS. If these guns are always readily available, there are plenty of young, disaffected males who will commit an atrocity like this.
It is ALWAYS these terrifyingly dangerous guns-- so easy to get-- in the hands of alienated disturbed young men.
I think this is going to be only loosely tied to political motivation. It’s sort of like turning the trans shooter into a political rebel.
I found myself fairly disappointed in the content of this podcast. I find that Tim and Sam are doing what the media has been doing for 10 years (for good reasons but still frustrating): realizing that the problem has been mostly caused by Trump and republicans and yet it’s somehow the democrats job to fix our politics. I watched the reaction after this tragic event and almost every single Democratic office holder has come out and condemned all acts of violence including Nancy pelosi who’s husband was attacked because of politics and was attacked by almost every single Republican lawmaker afterwards. Then I see the Republican reaction to this event by lying and bringing the temperature up.
You cannot expect for the politics to change if one side refuses to change. You can’t expect one side to uphold all political norms while the other side tramples on said norms. At some point you have to expect Republican voters or Republican leaders to force change even if they have to lose elections. The problem is they have been given this choice many many times over the last 20 years and the republicans have chosen not to take the off-ramp.
Thank you for saying this! The inability of most people to see that Trump has been normalized is infuriating. The Republicans are solely responsible. They could have voted for impeachment, if they had shown courage then, this would not be happening.
I am thinking it’s some kid that started left and got radicalized online. They’re going to find social media and comments on fringy sites, rather than mainstream ones. From media reports, the guy was bullied and was a loner. He likely fell in with the groypers or another one of those fucked up groups. Nick Fuentes, lead groyper, has called for Trump’s assassination because he’s allowed his campaign to be “taken over by Jews”. Ivan Raiklin and Alex Jones have discussed how killing Donald would be an ideal way to move the movement forward. Etc. etc. The GOP would rather blame the left because they’re incapable of introspection or even the basic human task of accepting responsibility for one’s words and actions.
Just my thoughts given what we know about this guy and what I know about what these asshole shitstirrers on the right talk about every day on their never ending podcasts and streaming shows.
What are those groups? Certainly seems possibly that a disaffected, bullied young guy would gravitate any group that would give him a sense of acceptance.
agreed
He was either going to shoot up a school or perpetrate some other mass shooting. We should consider ourselves lucky that "only" 1 person died (and two people are critical). This is our nation, awash with guns. It is a shame this will likely help Trump, and increase risks of violence against Biden and Harris. Also, if Biden is replaced, who the fuck wants the job in this political environment?
#RidingWithBiden
Is a coverup of justified? No one in the media is reporting exactly who shot the innocent bystanders. Just that they were shot. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39954768/nfl-cardinals-tillman-afghanistan-9-11
Things look even scarier now since the shooting, but there are STILL actions we can take to reduce the odds of the GOP turning our country into an autocracy. We have no control over whether Biden steps aside (I think he should, he cannot win enough votes). And even if Trump wins, getting Democrats in the “lower” offices still matters.
Focus for Democracy identifies organizations that have shown themselves, through rigorous testing, to be extremely effective at generating Democratic votes in swing states. Given that we are all bombarded with fundraising requests, Focus for Democracy helps us decide where to put our money and time. I’ve spent a lot of time looking for where I can effectively contribute - and this is it!
The next Focus4Democracy zoom is Tuesday July 16 @ 8:00 – register at bit.ly/F4D16July They do a ZOOM every 2 weeks. Get on their list and they’ll notify you of future Zooms.
If you can’t donate, pls. send F4D’s info to as many people as you can and urge them to spread the word.
Don’t forget other elective offices. If people are discouraged due to the Biden situation, they may not bother to vote – that would mean a lot of Democrats won’t get voted into Congressional and governors offices. (Remember that judges are sometimes elected, too.) Pls visit app.oath.vote - they identify the most crucial races where your donations can make a difference. We can only vote where we live, but we can donate money, and also email our friends around the country to let them know.
Jan I am a huge, Huge, HUGE long time supporter/co-host of F4D and am using all of my political/social capital there. I have reached out to many in person, through email, ZOOM and other methods because of the excellence of their methods in getting swing votes. The team has asked us never to use social media to publicize events for various reasons. Feel free to private message me. It is frustrating, but true,
Laura so glad to hear that. I don't view substack as social media so I have been posting dozens of mentions of Focus4Democracy in Substack comment sections. I have emailed a great many people but too, often it's going into their Spam folders, Ive learned. Though my posting on various substacks I have motivated quite a few people to sign up for Focus4Democracy zooms and I know that some have donated money as a result
Appreciate the link (F4D) & message. That we can’t do anything about Biden is so deeply frustrating. As bad as not being able to do anything about Alito & Thomas. No, worse at this exact moment. Does anyone close to him see the damage he’s doing? Now he’s going to speak from WH tonight. Mamma mia—no! Unless he announces he’s stepping aside.
Eli I am also frustrated but I still think there's still hope that Biden will wake up and see reality. I've heard that Obama might urge him to step aside, who knows if that's true. Remember that Biden mentioned several days ago about putting the crosshairs on Trump. We know that's a metaphor, he was referring to Trump's policies and character, but it doesn't sound good in the light of the assassination attempt. I actually hope that this lends some heft to the many elected Democratic officials who think Biden should step aside. I'm just waiting for Republicans to start mentioning the crosshairs comment.
I'm concerned that the chaos w/ the presidential options, people may be losing sight of the down-ballot offices. which are extremely important. There are STILL actions we can take.
Focus for Democracy identifies organizations that have shown themselves, through rigorous testing, to be extremely effective at generating Democratic votes in swing states. Focus for Democracy helps us decide where to put our money and time. I’ve spent a lot of time looking for where I can effectively contribute - and this is it!
The next Focus4Democracy zoom is Tuesday July 16 @ 8:00 – register at bit.ly/F4D16July They do a ZOOM every 2 weeks. Get on their list and they’ll notify you of future Zooms.
If you can’t donate, pls. send F4D’s info to as many people as you can and urge them to spread the word.
Don’t forget other elective offices. If people are discouraged, they may not bother to vote – that would mean a lot of Democrats won’t get voted into Congressional and governors offices. (Remember that judges are sometimes elected, too.) Pls visit app.oath.vote - they identify the most crucial races where your donations can make a difference. We can only vote where we live, but we can donate money, and also email our friends around the country to let them know.
#KyleRittenhouseIsNoHero left two dead bodies in the street 2 miles from my house for years ago. Reine Prius thinks it’s a great idea to bring that GOP here when there’s no room at the inn so to speak. So now they’re telling us 5,000 to 10,000 armed to the teeth #MAGAGOP are coming to a county that flipped Blue the last election and has close to 45% minorities. Bars open till 4 AM folks come on down. With your gun. Cause you can hear Kenosha. We have a perimeter. What could possibly go wrong? None of you get this. This is what they want.
Welcome Sam. Thanks Tim.
I was 10 in 1968. Came from a family who discussed politics. Loved Bobby Kennedy.
The thing that so far differs from 1968 is the riots. But we read about today’s tight-wing trained militias. I pray they show restraint.
It is a very volatile and dangerous situation. I assume that Biden is going to try to address this tonight.
I remember that night in '68. I was listening to the California election returns on the radio. I dozed off and when I woke it was all about RFK being shot. I think that morning my stepmother, a Roosevelt Democrat, went to a vigil at the hospital where he was. Oddly, I was listening to the radio yesterday when it happened. I had the same sense of confusion / disbelief / trying to sort out what I was hearing like I did then.
Strange days…
Bill Maher is irrelevant.
Absolutely. What's sad is he seems to be floundering on both sides of the political spectrum desperately trying to make himself relevant.
Yes. We're seeing/hearing from Maher way too much these days Why? I wish he would go away.
I think Dems need to change the focus and centre Project 2025 rather than Trump, contrasting policies rather than people and personalities. They had already started to do this so they would just have to lean harder into what a world under Project 2025 would be like. Also they need to actually have something for people to vote for, not against and not in the past, their message is infuriating.
100% Also, it is the convention, where they reveal their platform. I think they have renamed Project 2025 "Agenda 47" to distance themselves. Not a good week for them to avoid the topic.
Project 2025 is trump, though. You cannot and should not separate them
I would argue Trump is the Trojan horse bearing Project 2025.
Oh I agree, I meant for a couple of weeks the campaign should attack policies and show how they would affect people rather than attacking Trump himself as a threat to democracy. I also think that the larger focus in the short term should be a positive message about what the next 4 years under the Dems would look like. I am very nervous about this though because Biden is struggling to message.
Nope. Need to keep the foot on the petal and focus on what Project 2025 is and how trump is going to enact it. Absolutely no reason to pause that
Biden isn't struggling to message.
Watched 2 seconds of bill Maher’s clip. The shooter was not a liberal. He’s out on stage 30 seconds after the assassination attempt calling the shooter a liberal.
You are right Violence is never the answer. Make that clear to Trump! Even though he was shot and being Removed by his security He yells 3 times with the fist up in the air fight, fight, fight. Here’s the Interesting part every media commentary I’ve seen and heard no one mentions the fight fight fight part. Why is that? Trump is the instigator he and he alone has created a scenario like this that came back to bite him. Here’s my belief some people really learn from their mistakes and correct Themselves and others don’t and I really believe that he won’t learn from this tragedy, Quite frankly, I don’t think he has it in him..my 2 cents! Whatever it’s worth?
Trump is a narcissist psychopath, so if this experience catalyzes change in him, it won’t be happy change.
The experience won’t restore the capacity for empathy in him anymore than it could restore an amputee’s missing limb.
Instead, his narcissistic grandiosity will swell (even more), maybe even to the point of believing himself a deity, and he will become more unhinged and dangerous.
Well said; Well Said!👍
This is the only time I've seen Trump give a decent Black Power salute. His is usually a limp wristed version reminiscent of the one Hitler gave in a frequently used photo.
John, I’m so glad you mentioned the Hitler salute. If you look carefully as he is giving his Fight, Fight, Fight Cry; he also does his Hitler salute but that isn’t mentioned either.
Yes. And how soon before he is making money off of it. Ron Johnson on CNN with Jake Tapper and Jake looks like someone set him on mute. The media listens to every republican blaming Biden and the left while we endure republicans making fun of Paul Pelosi’s injuries, trump telling families torn apart by gun violence to “get over it” and making fun of anyone who wants gun legislation and on and on. People are fed up and angry. The consistent response I keep waiting for from the MSM is “Gun violence is awful. It’s unfortunate that trump and the majority of republicans refuse to help create protections and safeguards for their fellow Americans. Thoughts and prayers.”
And this headline made my head want to explode!
POLITICO
After Trump Shooting, America Reverts to Blaming the Other Side
Are these people fucking serious???
Heard a Politico reporter on Tara Palmieri’s podcast. Was in shock about what happened. But why be shocked that violent people would inspire violent acts? The normalizing of badness is disheartening. (She sounded like a T supporter, but maybe I’m just skittish in these sordid times.)
I watch clips of news on the Internet to verify stuff, but I don’t watch network news anymore. It’s awful.
Right?! That headline stinks. The media bias is towards republicans- and has been for as long as I can remember. News is driven by dollars, likes and clicks.
OMG I almost threw up hearing RoJo. He’s just gross.
"Trump is the instigator he and he alone has created a scenario like this that came back to bite him".
Ora, you are EXACTLY right. I wish I could "like " X 100! And the bastard keeps at it with his fist in the air and his "Fight! Fight! Fight" 😡😡
Our Fight Cry is the Ballot Box . We the People Must Not Allow Trump to sit in the Oval Office ever again. Believe What he says when he says it “Day one I’ll Be A Dictator” Not on Our Watch!
Exactly!! Trump very clearly was yelling " fight fight fight" as he was fist pumping and being dragged off the stage. Why is there no media mention of his words? I don't believe Trump will use this event to promote peace at all. Quite the opposite.
I thought I heard him yelling at his SS detail “wait, wait” before the fist pump and then it seemed like either the sound was cut (because of the shots?) and he mouthed the “fight fight” part.
The video clip I saw in the NYT clearly has Trump saying “wait wait” to the SS guys, and then he raises his fist and says “fight” 3 times. It was weak, but he did say “fight” 3 times before they took him away.
I think he was saying “wait” at the first because his shots had come off. At one point he clearly said something to the affect that he needed to put his shoes on. After that he was clearly saying “fight”.
Yeah, with or without sound, It was def obvious what he was trying to get across. IDK if that was the best message to give to a bunch of rabid lunatics who are ready to seek the blood of his enemies. But who am I to judge?
Karen - I Agree 100% it’s not in his nature to promote PEACE!!
The narrative straight out of the gates was that this was Left vs. Right violence. The investigation is ongoing, but so far it sounds like the same situation we’ve all grown accustomed to; angry young man, bullied in school, buys a gun. I won’t be convinced this was politically motivated or about political rhetoric until this kid’s whole story unravels.
I recommend everyone read this post by Historian Timothy Snyder. This goes especially for any Bulwark hosts who may be too quick to buy into the idea that the shooter must be a product of the Democratic side of things. https://open.substack.com/pub/snyder/p/political-violence?r=1ibb7&utm_medium=ios
You imply the hosts of Bulwark take this position. They don’t. It seems you don’t actually listen to them.
In my comment yesterday morning, I was going by how Tim and Sam had sounded during Sunday’s podcast. Based on how Tim (and Bill) sounded in yesterday’s podcast, I do not think they are under that misconception, at least not any longer. I am a Bulwark Plus member and a huge fan of Tim’s (and JVL’s and Sarah’s etc) who listens to every episode of every podcast they put out.
Over at Bari Weiss’s The Free Press the comments are 100% that this shooting is the fault of the Democrats, and specifically it’s the fault of Democrats saying Trump is a fascist and akin to Hitler. They also think the Secret Service is incompetent (noting that it’s run by a woman like that’s a bad thing) and that the FBI will engage in a “cover up” of the true machinations behind the shooting (because the FBI can’t be trusted, Hunter Biden laptop, Steele Dossier, etc etc). And they definitely don’t see any reason for gun control just because this happened. The solution is put all the Democrats in jail because “Democrats are Satan”. There are some mean, vicious people over there.
He was registered as Republican.
That's certainly possible, but the reality is that any time a politician is shot at, it's going to be cast as politically motivated whether it is or not. That's why there are conspiracy theories to this day about the Kennedy assassination. People simply don't want to believe that a random nutcase with a gun could shoot a president and change history for no good reason.
Hinckley shot Reagan to impress a girl. The truth is usually boring. We should let the whole story come out.
And another question or two…(like Tucker Carlson, “just asking questions”!) WHY on earth would the Secret Service let him hold his head upright? Isn’t that the part they are supposed to be trying to protect?? How did they know so quickly that there wasn’t a second shooter? Would putting his shoes on really even be a concern if it wasn’t a planned pose for the cameras?
I was just talking about this with my book club today and we came up with the following additional points:
-Trump has been heavily involved with professional wrestling and is besties with Vince McMahon (they stage violence and fake blood all the time)
-the shooter was killed…why? (Similar to Oswald)
-we have a doctor in our group who was questioning how quickly the blood seemed to coagulate and why there was not pressure applied on the wound.
-how was it so quickly determined that there was not a second shooter and why was the safety of the crowd treated so casually?
-and the reporting around people having reported to security that they spotted the shooter earlier, and those reports being being ignored, would make perfect sense.
-The fact that Trump turned to the right, away from cameras, and then ducked immediately…c’mon. That man has not moved so fast in years.
-and the best point of all…that was an awfully LARGE target to miss!
God forgive me, I feel like I half believe this stuff.
Whatever happened to the boy who cried wolf?
My impulse was the WWE razor blade trick.
WWE co-founder Linda McMahon was in Trump’s cabinet as head of the Small Business Administration. She left to chair his Suoer PAC.
That occurred to my devious mind, too. The bullet nicked his ear? It does almost looked staged, in some grotesque, sick way. But no, I think this was just one more time where this man has been the recipient of otherworldly luck. The story of his entire life, right? No lasting accountability despite a lifelong bottomless pit of despicable deeds. From around age 14. Terrible thing, though, is the hit dems will take from this, as their campaign goes dark for a while. Sheesh.
Exactly
I'm sorry.
Have to disagree with your take on the tone of the Bukwark.
The plot to overturn the 2020 election and January 6 was and continues to be a threat to democracy.
I'm not saying the Bulwark's rhetoric is perfect, but they are .00001 responsible for the temperature.
Hey Floyd; just curious, what are you even doing here? No, really dude, fascinating take. I know the gang here is much too polite to tell you to go take a flying flock, but from my perspective, don't let the door hit you in the ass as you go sailing away.
We don't get many trolls here. Keep in mind, like Travis mentioned with another troll, this guy had pay for a sub to comment. Pretty dumb.
Not anymore.
Thanks Jim. I hate being impolite but the now dearly departed was a rude pompous ass.