Are Video Games the New Comic Books?

Welcome

back to the Bulwark. It goes to Hollywood. My name is Sunny Bunch from Culture Editor at the Bulwark. And I’m very pleased to be joined today by my friend. And writer at the Washington Post reporter on video games, Gene Park.

Jean, thanks for being on the show today.

Mister Sunny bunch, it’s been a few years in the making to but this is the first time we’ve ever spoken and the first time we’re able to see each other in camera for audio listeners. We’re actually video chatting here. So, yeah, you know, long time admirer is some you you are sometimes quite right.

Oh, wow. That’s you’re really underselling things here. This is you know, it’s it’s that’s not fair. No. I’m I’m really excited to have Gene on because Gene is one of the only people I read on a regular basis on video games because I’m I’m like, I’m not a gamer.

I would not rides myself as a gamer, but I I do occasionally play video games. I feel like that’s an important distinction to to make here to the extent that I I I started playing the resident evil four remake last night Jean, and I’d forgotten that that first big village fight is not winnable. It’s just a it’s just a timed thing. So I kept getting very, very frustrated even though I’ve played this game before. And and it was it was just a reminder that I’m so bad at these things.

That I I should leave it to the pros. But we have Jeetan today to talk about video game movies, which is a topic I am really interested in right now because it feels like and this is why I said DeGene in the the pitch to come on the show, it feels like we’re at an inflection point with the critical and audience success of the last of us, which is, of course, based on a video game, huge hit on HBO, HBO Max. Etcetera. And about in about a week, we’re gonna have the new Super Mario Bros. Movie, which every box office analyst I’ve seen thinks is gonna do huge enormous business.

I mean, there’s no kids movies out. It’s gonna be it’s gonna be a big hit. It feels like we’re right at the same moment as we were in two thousand eight when the Dark Knight and Iron Man both dropped in theaters, in pretty short pretty short proximity, close proximity to each other and, like, completely altered the landscape of movies. The business of movies. I really feel like we’re right there for video games.

Is that is that the sense you get to as a as a gamer at somebody who watches both movies and video game and plays video games. Is that is that the feeling you have?

That actually feels very correct. And we were all there during the the the height of the dark night what Batman begins or Batman begins and and Ironman and everything. And, you know, it showed kind of two different paths to to have comic movies. I think Hollywood has kind of seen that there is a limit to how many comic book stories you can tell. You can here here that in the discourse about Marvel fatigue, and as a longtime comic reader, there is a certain point where you kind of just got get kind of tired of reading the stories.

So I do feel like Hollywood is kinda seeing like, okay. Well, maybe what’s what’s the next big thing? Video games are clearly much bigger in terms of pop culture impact than comic books. They’re a much bigger business than comic books. So how do we start adapting these these games into IP, into expanded YIP.

And so then you get that with the last of us with HBO, which was a critical and commercial hit. And I agree with the premise. I I believe Super Mario Brothers movie, you know, that there’s I mean, talk about how there’s very little kids movies out in theaters right now. Super Mario is gonna be that movie. And, you know, I expected to make it a billion dollar a billion dollar box off easily.

It’s gonna be huge. And it really goes to they both kind of illustrate a lot of, like, the past that video game adaptation can can can take moving forward. The last of us is a very linear story, but it’s it was very faithful to the game. And that’s something that I think a lot of game players have been asking for to please just kind of hute close to the the source material. And we’ve not really gotten that.

Most recent infamous example speaking of resident evil is the Netflix show, resident evil. Or and there’s also the halo show by Paramount plus And both of those properties really, really diverge from the source material to the point where it’s pretty unrecognizable. And then you start you start to wonder, you know, well, if the base if this isn’t gonna if this isn’t gonna please the base, would it please quote unquote, broader audience, which is what they’re what they were trying to go for. And I think that’s a fundamental misunderstanding of why these games were so popular in the first place. And also and we can talk more about it later, but also the difficulty in adapting the video game format to a linear filmic storytelling format.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, it’s interesting to to think about the the plea from fans for faithfulness to the material. Because again, this is something that you heard a lot of from people who love comic books and were constantly frustrated by some of the comic book movies that were coming out before the rise of the m c. I mean, you know, like Spider Man was pretty faithful to to to those movies, you know. But then you you’ll get stuff like the punisher. Right?

The the Thomas James on trolled to punisher, which, like, moved the action to Miami. It was, like, a lot of pastels and Hughes and stuff. And, like, people people people were, like, why even bother making it a punisher? Movie, if we’re gonna we’re gonna do this. And it’s it is the same thing with with with video game films.

I mean, I do think that you get you you you If you if you can’t capture that that hardcore base of fans, why even bother adapting the material in the first place?

Yes. Exactly. That that that’s what you’re catering to. That’s that’s the whole reason why you you got that IP in the first place to cater to the millions of fans that already exists. You know, it’s already a built in audience.

And it’s surprising how many studios could just kind of miscalculate that. But also, again, it goes back to how difficult it is to interpret these games into a movie. Because to be quite frank, a lot of the video game stories aren’t really that great in terms of stories, you know. Residential four. We were talking about Resideo four.

The original Resideo four in two thousand five, the story was famously written in two weeks. And it sure sounds like it. It’s about one man being sent into rural Spain to save the president’s daughter from a zombie cult. And, you know, just right there, you can already tell that it’s already written written two weeks. And it was and this and the director shouldn’t even call me, also said that the story is not the most important part.

The the it should be fun. The game play mechanics should be fun. And it turned out it was Resideo four is one of the most influential video games of all time. I like to liken it to, like, you know, the the terminated two of of video games, you know, highly influential. And you see that with Resideo on Netflix, and they try to tell a whole story, but you see that even in the faithful adaptations of Resideo.

Like, the Resideo will welcome to rack and city, By the way, I’ve watched every single video game movie ever made ever made. Okay. I actually wrote a article about about Oscars, like, you know, Oscars for video game movies throughout throughout history. And I gave there wasn’t reson evil director, Paul Anderson, the best director award. Because it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s Oscar.

So you give awards to to people when they’re, like, very late in the career, and you’re, like, okay. Well, we forgot about you. Sorry, Jamie DeCurtis. Here you go. You know?

Well, I and he he also, of course, famously directed portal combat, the first portal combat, which was which I think has been reevaluated over the years. You know, it was now appreciated for the for the classic that it that it is, which is I I mean, faithfulness is an interesting thing because I do think that I mean, look, my I think the the the the best example of video game series that has been faithful ish but still succeeded as storytelling and as action filmmaking is those resident evil movies. I mean, I think that that that, you know, obviously, there’s a big that it stray is pretty pretty far from the games because it’s telling it’s kind of own story. But it still has you know, you still have your little your little flourishes here and there. But the last of us, again, very different, and it’s a very tight adaptation, very very close to the source.

Yeah. It reminds me of a book adaptation. Like, the kind of thing you would see from, like, you know, like, oh, this is pride in predators by by Credit Kenan brought up, and it’s a very faithful adaptation to the book or whatever. I don’t know Kenneth Brownaga ever did credit credit just movie. But you know what I’m saying?

Right? Like like a Kenneth Brownaga Shakespeare movie, you know, were which are very very faithful to those books and into Tudo scripts. And I always liken less of us to kinda like a theater production. And that’s what they’re doing. They they they made a whole TV production out of it, and they queue very close to the scripted lines.

I think a lot of people were quite surprised. People who don’t play games were really look quite surprised at the strength of the writing and the the the emotionality of of the characters. And I say, yeah. This this game is old. You know, like, like, we’ve already we’ve already kind of gone past this or have I don’t know.

The last of it was was was was was quite seminal. So Well,

it’s it’s interesting too. I mean, you so you’ve now lived through two cycles of last of us debates with the the game when it when it came out and now and now with the show. What was it in reaction, do you think from from gamers who played the game and and got through the whole thing and got to that that that last sequence in the in the hospital and people who watched it on TV without having played play the game. Did you did you notice any any real split in in opinions, sir?

Not really. I do feel like because I was watching a lot of YouTube creators who had never played the game before, who watched a show. So a lot of plot twists and events to happen in the game were new to them. So it was interesting to see reactions, and it was quite similar to the popular reaction to the last of us. In terms of they were very surprised, they were very intrigued, they love talking about and debating the the moral ramifications of whatever happened in the finale.

You know, we don’t have to talk about swaddlers, but And It was also interesting because, like, you know, there’s been kind of a weird critical backlash against the last of us, and I think it’s probably because you know, Craig Mason, the show runner has been going around saying, this is greatest beauty game story ever ever told. You know, that that that’s that’s hyperbolic, of course. But, you know, it’s also fine for someone to believe that because it is a good story. And it’s it’s been interesting to see a critical kind of backlash to the game over the years. A lot of game journalists or a lot of game critics don’t really hold the last of us in that hierarchy regard.

I hold it a little bit higher than Day Do. It’s not one of my favorite games of all time, but I do appreciate what it tried to do for for the storytelling of of video games. And it was also interesting to see some critical backlash to the show as well. But it was very minimal, though. As for for the for the most parts, a lot of people seem to be very impressed.

I think a lot of that came from the strength of the performers. The performers, you know, you like, no matter what you feel about the story, you can’t really not Pedro Pascal and Bella Ramsey for how they were able to portray the characters. And again, that’s how I look at it. I think I feel like that they were putting on a stage for us. You know, this is the the last of us, the classic story.

Now, here it is being performed by these two seminal actors, you know.

Yeah. Let’s let’s talk a little bit about what studios who are who are looking to make some of these games should should be attempting to do. Because, I mean, I do think you have you you we we have a very good example again of a movie coming up here where you know, the the story is not necessarily the biggest part of it. It’s it’s based on, you know, kind of IP and recognizable figures and that’s the Super Mario brothers, maybe I mean, if anyone who’s play Super Mario Bros. I play Super Mario Bros.

One, two, three, you know, growing up. That was those were those were my games. Simple game, it’s a lot of jumping, a lot of, you know, breaking blocks. There is a story. It’s a very basic story.

It’s saved the princess, you know, saved the world. And, you know, and obviously, there’s been more Super Mario Brother games over the years that have kind of built the mythology or whatever. But, you know, you don’t need to do what the live action movie did, which is in in vent a whole bunch of nonsense there’s there’s there’s enough basic story there to just kind of use what they have. Right? Is that what studio should be trying to do here is to to stick to the stick to what what has worked in the games without I guess I I guess without I I don’t know how you do that without having the playability factor.

I guess is my my question here. I mean, I like, is there something in in inseparable of the video game experience in terms of playing and watching.

Yeah. I think it goes to a certain type of feeling. From what I haven’t seen a Mario movie yet, do plan to see it pretty soon coming up in in a preview prescreening. And I haven’t seen it, but what we’ve seen so far, it seems to really capture the kind of spirit or the feeling of of Mario more than, you know, you’re right that there’s Mario doesn’t really have a story, and it’s been very very much like, resident evil, It’s been very much deprioritized in terms of making the games. The the game is more about a feeling, like like, feeling joyful, feeling fun, feeling playful.

And I think that’s what the what that’s what a movie like for the Mario movies should do. And that’s why the Sonic the Hedgehog movies were so successful. Even though they they they didn’t Sonic the hedgehog again is a very similar story to Mario. Like your Sonic is rescuing the animals from the evil robot doctor. Right?

And they managed to kinda turn that and turn it into kind of like a joyful innocent story about, you know, like, doing the right thing and everything. Obviously, it’s a great kids movie and it’s a very simple message. But, like, that message was very simple and it resonated very strongly throughout the entire themes of the movie, in terms of the performances, you know, kinda what? I I I’m forgetting his name. Who is who is the star of the song and movie.

But, you know, the guy who plays cyclops.

Jim Carey. Oh, James James

James James James James James James James James James James James James James James James James James James. The the the poor cowboy who dies in West sorry for Westworld’s Westworld’s players. And and Jim Carey as well, and they both were able to kinda capture the innocence and energy of of the sonic to hedgehog movies. Or the games without really being too preferential to the games. They were able to do their own spin on Jim Carey was able to do his own spin on the doctor robotnik character.

The in the game, he’s very different. And in the movie, they turned him into a very traumatized orphan who was kind of out his his acting out his his his trauma against the world. And that was fun, and that was interesting. And I think it’s all about capturing the field because one of the biggest criticisms of the Halo Paramount Plus show is that it really didn’t feel like Halo much at all. And when we had two big action sequences.

They were very, very short and contained. And, you know, Master chief has sex in the TV in the TV show. And as far as we know, he’s a virgin in the game. So, like, already there, the vibes are completely thrown off. You know?

It’s like, like, why is our hero having sex? Like like, he should not be interested in any of this, you know. So, like, that for me like, I I for me personally, I kind of enjoyed the Halo show for how different it was. And, like, you know, they weren’t traumatizing a lot of things and it wasn’t very melodramatic and it was interesting. And it wasn’t until Master chief had a sex scene with a a prison of war I don’t know if you’ve seen a show, but No.

I’ve not. I’ve not lost it. Yeah. They they had a woman who who was a human who’s on the on the alien side and was a prisoner of war, and then he just goes to her room and just like like, you know, sleep sweater. And you see it.

And it’s just like this is extremely jarring. This is, like, not this is nothing like the game at all. The and, like, again, the fights are complete and thrown out for me. For for a lot of people too. Like, that was a a breaking point for a lot of people who were saying, okay, this is not the show that that that that that this is not a halo show.

And So I think it really is about trying to capture a feeling.

What’s what’s the difference in your mind between animation and live action for some of these things? Because I I do feel like animation animation is almost preferable. Certainly certainly has been done better with particularly some of the older properties, you know, a a saguaro brothers, maybe it’s coming out apparently. Again, very good. People seem people seem to be buzzing about it, but but which is animated, or the castlevania show on on Netflix, which is much much beloved.

People people like it a lot. And is is again, it’s animated, but it’s based on an older property. I mean, is that is that a do you do you think that some of the stigma on anime is going away in terms of things people are willing to watch and give credit. To for being quite good. Yeah.

I think the institutions still have a lot of catching up to do. The Oscars, even the mainstream media, including us in the watching the post, like we don’t cover anime. Even though anime is clearly, you know, a pop pop culture phenomenon for the past two decades, but we still don’t rarely cover anime. It was a huge deal when goku from dragon ball z during the Macy’s Day Parade. He showed up on the front page in New York Times.

I was like, wow, this is huge. You know, acknowledgment finally from from the gray lady. But in terms of the regular pop culture, in terms of, like, like, on the on boots on the ground, like, people, there’s a wide acceptance of of of animation. You see the Oliver YouTube where where, you know, people you don’t expect or you you wouldn’t typically expect to watch cartoons or just watching cartoons and loving and crying over it and everything. And and a lot of people a lot of people love watching those shows with these twitch streamers and YouTubers as well.

So that’s one example, but let’s again, like, these shows are very popular. They they do very well and they they deal with a lot of adult interesting topics. And part of the strength of animation is that it can portray things that live action can struggle to, you know. It’s a lot cheaper to to do animation even though animation is so pretty expensive. And it’s a lot of work too.

But it it, you know, the last of us season two isn’t we’re not gonna see that for another two years, man. Like — Right. — it’s ridiculous. Right? Yeah.

Right? But that’s fine because it this isn’t, like, seinfeld where they can just, like, shoot in an apartment and then, like, and just be back, okay, we’ll be back in a couple months with more shows, you know. What animation is a little different and that, you know, like, cast radio was able to come out, like, an annual basis. And that was fun and that was great. I mean, they have to to wait too long.

So animation does provide a lot of strength, storytelling strength, that live action and took me doesn’t.

And it’s easier I mean, going back to the VIBES question, it’s easier to capture the VIBES of something like CastleGate or Super Mario Brothers in what is closer to its native format, which is, you know, animation.

Yeah. Video games are animation. Basically, you need animators. You every video game would need an animator. So

let me let’s let’s let’s talk about the history of video game adaptations for for a bit here because I am I I two things two things always kind of annoy me. One is when, you know, people say, oh, well, no no video game. Movie has ever been a success. Like, they didn’t make seven resin and evil movies because they all failed. You

know, why won’t be successful?

Like like, it’s not this is you I don’t know what world you live in, but, you know, it’s not all you able adaptations of of, you know you know, whatever. There there is like a there is an actual industry here. But the one that the the thing I always forget, I always forget this until I look at the chart, is that the most successful video game, movie of all time, of course, is Warcraft. And that was driven entirely almost entirely by the the massive success of that film in China. Where it did huge, huge box office.

What was it about? What was it about Warcraft? Do you think that appealed to the Chinese market? And is it is it interesting to you? Because it’s kind of interesting to me.

That there is there’s has been no movement whatsoever on a sequel. Like, I I don’t think we’re ever gonna get one. Doesn’t seem to doesn’t seem to be happening.

That is fascinating. And it does speak to a lot of the Chinese audience because you can’t really account for taste. Right? But it wasn’t a very good movie. And but the Chinese audience seems to really love bombastic special effects late in films, you know.

The Transformers movies were famously crazy successful there too. Mhmm. And so I I think part of that is also, like, a lot of people in China love to play fantasy role playing games. You know, engansion impact is free to play a role playing game that that is made in China. And it’s also extremely popular in China.

And, you know, Chinese audience is they love mobile games too. So I think and a lot of those games are based around Fantasy. So I do think that World of Warcraft kind of touched on a lot of those a lot lot hit a lot of those touchstones of being really special effects later and being a big Hollywood movie, being you know, easily shippable and distributable to throughout China without any kind of, like, political messaging that they needed they needed to fix up or anything that it was a very clean movie. And yeah. And and appeal to people who just love, like, fantasy epics, you know.

Know, and and even Chinese dramas are very fantasy epic driven, you know. So it does feel like that it kind of catered to them pretty well over there. But it would it it’s interesting. And I I don’t know why there is no sequel. Yeah.

I that that’s a good question. I have no idea. Yeah.

No. I mean, it’s I mean, part of the problem I’m sure is that, you know, being a big hit in China is nice but it’s also not great for American based studios because the the Chinese partners keep a much higher percentage of the the box office revenue. So, like, if you make two hundred million dollars in China, you’re only bringing, you know, twenty or thirty million of that back home, which is obviously a problem. But, yeah, it it’s just it’s is interesting. I I I I think about that kind of think about that too much, frankly, considering, you know, how bad the movie Actually, it’s not even a bad movie.

It’s it’s a very weird movie. What did you what did you actually make of

life? I I just didn’t, like, think of it. Like, it was it was fine. Like, yeah. Yeah.

Wasn’t, like, terrible, you know, but it was just, like, like, I I don’t remember anything in a moment. Like, I watched the uncharted movie too, like, with Tom Holland. Don’t remember anything from me. A lot of these movies is, like, they’re just these kinda happen, you know. Yeah.

Yeah. You know, like, that that they’re fine movies. The the the movies I remember the most are the ones that are really either really bad or really good. You know?

Well, that’s I mean, that is, like, that’s another sign of maturation. I think of the the video game as IP is that, like, you know, most blockbusters are

just fine. Yeah. Those are exactly

Let’s most blockbusters are confident like rampage. Rampage, competent. It was a nice little star vehicle for the rock. I enjoyed the, you know, hundred and ten minutes or whatever I was in the theater, but I have literally never thought about it since writing and podcasting about it, you know, years ago. Exactly.

Yeah. I watched it out. I was just like, like, I was on my phone half the time, you know. And, you know, it would it’s it’s a movie like a sesame, which which it was starting at Michael Fastpender, which is just so awful. The editing is awful.

Like, it makes me wanna vomit. Like, it physically makes me ill, you know. And sometimes there’s just movies that just do that. You know? I’m fascinated with the with the this whole recent trend in films of having a biopic about stuff.

And one movie that we’re that’s coming up this week on this Friday on Apple is the the Tetris movie. And I I’ll be interested to see more biographical films that are that look into the creation of a video game, you know. Well well, this is

an interesting trend as well. Right? So you’ve got Tetris, but you’ve also have Mythic Quest. You know, Mythic Quest the show on Apple TV Plus. Have you

have you

watched Mythic Quest? Okay. Well, so mythic quest is great. And it and it follows folks who are who are making a, like, massive, you know, MMO RPG And then you also have, you know, like Silicon Valley, which is kind of in the same ish world of of video games and that sort of stuff. But it’s interesting that we are get we’re we are also currently getting a lot of adaptations or, you know, originals or whatever about the world of video games in addition to actual video game adaptations.

Yeah. The Tetris movie is fascinating and it’s seeming unique because have you heard of the story behind Tetris?

Yeah.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it involves, like, the KGB and the fall of the the fall of Mikkel Gorbachev and the Soviet Union and everything like that. But You know, like, even a movie about the creation of, like, Soggy or Hedgehog or, you know, even Super Mario would be interesting, you know.

It’s a fascinating movie, a moment in the in the Tetris movie. When the Nintendo General Counsel unveils the Game Boy. Like, it’s in like like, he’s Oppenheimer, you know. And, you know, those kind of drivingizations were the the the Tetris movie is really fun because of how how it just dramatizes the the the event of finding Tetris and the unveiling of the Game Boy and the unleashing of the Game Boy upon the world. It makes it really fun.

It it it gives video games like a really nice shining light within, like, the history of pop culture in general, you know. Yeah.

And it is interesting too. I mean, again, it’s you know, it it that movie is at least at least fifty percent, you know, almost a heist movie, like corporate corporate intrigue, heist movie sort of thing in addition to being about this game that really did, I don’t mean, change the world as a big, big,

big

phrase, but it really

did. Have a billion copies. That’s a lot. Yeah. That’s

a lot. That’s a lot a lot of people play that game. Alright. So let’s talk let’s one of one of the things I mentioned to you before we did the show was a a thing I hate is when people say nobody has ever made a good video game movie or show or anything like that. It just is it is it is untrue and And while, you know, many of them have been bad, there there are some good ones out there.

Jean, what is your favorite video game adaptation either film, TV, what or whatever?

It would have to be castlevania as we as we spoke about. I really love you know, castlevania is another game where the story was not that important. It’s just about a a family of dudes who are going to kill Dracula. That’s Tracula has appeared again every hundred years, and and and and the descendants of this family have to just gotta go to the castle and just kill them. That’s it.

And they were able to kind of create this entire, like, Game and Thrones esque story about, like, Dracula’s War Council and, like, you know, the the the political intrigue among this world of vampires and how they were trying to backstop each other. It was fascinating stuff. It was very adult stuff too. That and, you know, I also gave more to combat the best movie Oscar, quote unquote, Oscar because, you know, like, I I feel like it was kind of the first movie to kind of make us feel like it captured that spirit of the game, you know. When I watched in the theaters when I was a kid and I was like, this is this is great.

This is the best thing I’ve ever seen, you know. It was it’s a bit like the t m n that that t m n t movie, the the very first one, that kind of that kind of huge very close to, like, the the original comics like, the inspiration and comics, like, it felt like a daredevil movie, you know, in in some parts. And you know, like, it’s more we need more movies like that where that, again, that that captured the energy, you know. Cool. Yeah.

I mean, moral combat was interesting too because, I mean, like, you would think mean, look, we have a whole we have a whole genre of this sort of movie. The Bruce Lee Marshall Arts Tournament

moral comment was just copied by was just copying the boost lead template. That’s it, you know?

Yeah. Like, it I I I don’t know. I I am a sucker. I also saw moral comment in theaters. And remember coming out of them being like, yes.

This is amazing. This is this is what movies were meant to be.

Yes. Exactly. This is what movies meant to be to to suspend their disbelief. See some cool cool stuff happening Mona Charen, a lot a lot of cool magic. That’s that’s exactly what we want, you know.

I will say, alright, I will I will my own pick though for best video game adaptation is actually silent Hill, which I I am very fond of. I think silent Hill is not is not it’s not a great movie Exactly. But it is a very effective horror movie. It’s like got great atmosphere. It’s got some great character design.

Obviously, borrowed a lot from the video games. I have no idea how closely it used to the games because I haven’t I haven’t played the games. But just as a movie, Quam movie, it it’s pretty good. It’s pretty good, not great, not perfect, by any means, but like pretty good.

I I liked it too. It was actually a little horror it was actually more horrifying than expected, you know. It was Sondland was not a gory film. But that film it’s not a gory game. It’s more psychological.

But that film was pretty gory. But but I I still remember it to this day, and I and I do remember that it did capture the lives pretty well. It was just it was just that the story wasn’t that great, you know. And some of the performances were like, you know, like, a little off kilter. The the main character was a woman.

I think I remember that she would that the the gender of the character changed because it was originally male, but the director felt that it felt a little weird for a man to be scared. And he’s like, okay. Well, you know, men could be scared too, especially in the sight of certain horrors that you see in the silent hill. But, okay. So that was an interesting change.

But it did actually Hugh fairly close to the game story. And I think that’s why most people. It was it wasn’t received critically well when it was released, but I think a lot of people have kind of like, more to combat, kind of kind of reevaluated. And so, you know what? That wasn’t a bad movie.

That that it did a lot of things really well in terms especially in terms of individual presentation, art design, design, the special effects, the costuming?

That that director is very I mean, the the director is I think he also did a brotherhood of the wolf. Right? Yeah. Brother impacted. Yes.

Freestyle is it. Not that movie too.

I right. So he, like, he has that he has that whole vibe down. It is good. I Will Saletan one of the worst video game movies that I have ever seen was the sequel to Silent Hill however. The Silent Hill Revelation three d which stars Sean Sean Beam and also the the one of the one of his kids from Game of Thrones.

Was in I just like I was like, oh, man. This is I I remember watching and thinking like, I hope this is as good as the first. It was not.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s something again, I that’s another movie I checked out, which is why I I I said I remember the first time in whole movie, you know, because it was interesting. There was a lot of interesting visuals. There were there were things that showed you that sticks in your mind, and revelations did not do that too.

Yeah.

Revelations is also funny. I’m sorry. I’m gonna I have my only one thought on revelations is it’s a very it’s an interesting movie because it’s the most boring, blandly shot, like, really kind of lazily made movie. For ninety five percent of it except there’s one scene with Malcolm McDowell, who’s the guy who was Alex in a clockwork orange, and has been in a bunch of other stuff. But there’s one scene with Malcolm McDowell where, like, the set actually looks like a real set and it’s like lit kind of interestingly.

I was like, oh, somebody came to work that day and was like, I need to impress Malcolm McDowell. That’s what’s happening.

He said, that’s what’s

happening here.

Yeah. I I think that was one of the the interesting parts of the last of us is that they really did so much production work in terms of actualizing the the game world. They they created the whole talent just for that Bill and Frank episode, they converted the entire abandoned mall into a one story mall into a two story mall with three d effects. But it felt very real. They used a real giraffe for the for for giraffe scene.

So there there was a huge appreciation for just make of, like, practical and three d effects to just make it really sing. And I think I think people really appreciated the the the kind of work the amount of working care that went into every little detail in the show. Yeah.

You know, thinking back to the last of us and the kind of more linear some of the more linear games that are that are out there and just ripe for for adaptation and exploitation. I like, I I have always thought it was slightly weird to say like, oh, well, you can never have a good video game movie because I I I I don’t know, man. Like, there’s there’s nothing stopping your average zombie game from being turned into an exciting action movie. Like God of War, you know, and and god of war ragging around, like, those are those are big epic fantasy storytelling situations. I don’t see any reason why you can’t take that material and drill it down to its essence and and —

Yeah. — it got a work in the end. I’ll show you that.

Right. So, like, I just I just I’ve never I’ve always I’ve always been I don’t know. I like, video games don’t need me to defend them, but I’ve always been, you know, kind of, put off by some of the snobishness about it. What should studio heads be looking for right now? What should what should they be out there saying, okay, here’s the next thing that we can we can really adapt and exploit.

I

think I think they’re already doing that. I think there are so many video game shows that are being planned right now. It’s really kind of ridiculous. We already mentioned God of War, and I I think the the show runners there said that they they do feel some kind of pressure after the last of us. To kind of really deliver.

And God of War is a very, you know, is probably closer to to door the door movies in terms of like like like presentation and and and special effects. So that that will be very expensive, and we’ll see how much Amazon is is willing to spend after the rings of power show, which I I absolutely hated. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Really?

Yeah. I’m sorry. Did you watch them?

I did. I I found it. I was It was it was very watchable. That that’s as my that’s as as as strong as I’m willing to go on those shows. It it was watchable.

And but God of War doesn’t can’t not be just fine. You know? Like like the people will trash if if these groups, especially since so much of God of War is already kind of written out. So I think studios are we’ll be kind of looking for games that are that are already kind of written out. The last of us being probably the v prime example because the last of us inspired the God of War to kind of in his presentation a lot of Playstation games are are are gonna be doing that because of Playstation, in particular, focuses on creating these very cinematic experiences.

These cinematic linear experiences. And PlayStation CEO, Jim Ryan, has told me years ago that they’re they’ve been working on trying to make the IP work harder for for the company. And that’s something that mar that Nintendo has able able to do, you know, the love for Mario is multigenerational, you know. And that’s and that’s something that is highly desired among Beauty King companies right now. And nobody really has it, you know.

The Xbox tried to do it with a halo and they’ve kind of failed at at retaining the audience. And PlayStation hasn’t really done a ton of work not until the last ten years to kind of cater and build this loyal audience that would be come from parents and their children would like it too, you know. And part of the problem is that PlayStation is a lot of PlayStation games are really adult games. And Nintendo games are very family family oriented. So that’s why it’s able to be easily multi generational.

But PlayStation does have a vested interest in transforming, you know, the transforming so many of his so many of his games. Like, there was a game called Gose Sushima, which was a Samura game, very inspired by Akyla Curacao films. And I didn’t think they did a good job in mimicking the Curacao films. But, you know, that that was their intent. And now they wanna make that into, I think, a movie or a TV show.

I forget, but it’s, like, you know, sometimes, I I I don’t really see the point because some of these are just so inspired by the thing that that that already exists. You know? Like uncharted doesn’t make sense because we already have so many Indiana Jones movies. They’re all amazing, you know, or most of them, you know. And uncharted, there’s nothing about uncharted that is charismatic enough to translate well to a film, but it plays amazingly as a game.

It’s a thrill right as a game. But I don’t feel like that the characters for the Charlie Sykes are unique in character’s magnet enough to carry an entire, like, film franchise. That’s

actually a really interesting point too to think about because, like, you know, you have you have so many of these you have so many video games that are kind of disguise knock offs of something on TV or a movie, and then refracting that back to TV and movie. It’s like a photocopy of a photocopy

Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s it’s very strange. And so that’s why the last of us is at least a little bit unique. Yeah.

Obviously, it’s another another zombie show, but, you know, it’s focused on the intense emotionality of the characters. And Joel himself and Ellie are are are not really characters that you see a lot of TV even in even in the Walking Dead. So that translatable. I think God of War will probably translate pretty well too. You know, there’s not a lot of shows about God’s who murdered the the entire pantheon of Greek mythology, you know.

So that Will Saletan lot of fun to watch it. We’ll we’ll be very violent, but you know, it’s a pretty compelling story, but, you know.

Alright. I always like to ask at the end of these interviews if there’s anything I should have asked. What do you think folks should know about the state of video game adaptations. What do you think folks at the studio should know about video games? What what should what should people know that I have failed to ask.

No. I think you covered it all, but I think really what the last of us are really you’re right again that the last of us is an inflection point. Where a lot of people would be like, let’s look at this. Let’s let’s let’s reevaluate what we’re doing and see what what we could do to kind of mirror this success because I think a lot of studios are now, again, under that pressure to to create, you know. So many TV shows kind of there’s a fallout TV show.

Fallout is series about post apocalyptic post apocalyptic of the world that ended in nineteen fifties. So culture has been kind of an an arrested development within nineteenth of fifties pop culture and, like, that that that kind of thinking and that’s always fascinating to see how how Americans reflect in in the postapocalypse, but still in when when quote unquote America was great again, you know, back then, And what else is there? I don’t know. There’s so There’s there’s, like, literally, like, there’s bioshock, which is famously counterargument for Iron Man’s books, particularly Atlas Shrout. So that would be interesting film or show to see in terms of how about how political they they decide to make it.

But yeah. I there’s just so much and I think a lot of people are gonna be looking at, like, what the last was did. And I think I think you’re gonna see a lot of shows that Hugh pretty close to Hugh pretty close to the games from now on. I

do wonder if if, you know, this will be a TV mostly phenomenon because, you know, these games, we’re we’re talking about games that run twenty, thirty, forty hours. In some cases just to get through the the main the main storyline. So, like, distilling all that down to a two or two and a half hour movie is is tricky.

Yeah. I think that’s what that that that’s one thing that the Halo Show got right. And also, obviously, the last of us is that, like, t the TV format is a lot more similar to video games. You know, videos are like books, you know? Like, you can’t really can’t really sell up a whole book in terms, you know, Lord of the Rings with three movies and but but they they cut out like sixty percent, you know, of of those books, you know.

And so I do think that, like, if you do wanna stay close and it’s gonna it’s it’s gonna have to be more episodic content versus a film that tries to capture the spirit of of a forty hour experience or an entire trilogy of games or whatever, you know. Yeah. It’s it’s been interesting to see, like like like, book adaptations to comic book adaptations to non video game adaptations. And so we’ll see we’ll see where this goes, but I definitely do think that we we think you’re right in that we are in the the kind of the the the the beginning of some kind of video game multi transmedia success. And video games have been trying to do that for some time.

Now, you know, the final Fantasy series in Japan, has famously and was pretty ahead of his time in terms of trying to tell Transmedia stories. Transmedia as in, like, cross media. And so they they would have a movie that would tie into the game. And it’s like, you have to watch a movie to tie into the game. And it’s like, that wasn’t really successful, mostly because the movies were pretty were pretty bad again.

And it made the games feel like an empty experience. So I but I didn’t you know, and then but you you see what happened with Cyberpunk and with Netflix, and that told an entirely new story that was energizing and made the royalty fun. And then cyberpunk sales went up. And you see that again with the last phase where a lot of people were like, oh, I don’t kinda wanna play the the video game version of this and and the the the sales went up too. So I think, again, like, it’s it’s about making sure that it captures the vibe of the game.

So if you wanna go back to the game, you were like, oh, this feels this kind of feels like a show too, you know. Need needs to be definitely be kind of a companion piece together for this kind of Transmedia’s success to to be achieved. Well

and if you go back to you go back to two thousand two, two thousand three. Right? There was the the Matrix video game that came

out. Mhmm. Yeah. And then the Matrix between

Yeah. I I think I cannot in between reloaded and revolutions.

And that was written by the the with the Wachowski’s and, you know, it was it was canon, you know, Jada Jada Pink and Smith’s character was do you if you wanna understand what the hell she was doing in reloaded in revolutions, you have to play the game to do that. And that was an interesting experience too. And again, yeah, that was where that the matrix trilogy in general was just a way ahead of his time and with so many different things. And MMO, and that was also can and two, like like, you know, Morpheus dies in the MMO, and then, like like like like the new movie Matrix four, I I already forget the name of Matrix four. But, like,

matrix, resurrections.

Resscriptions. Yeah. There’s all these rewords or whatever. Resscriptions reference to to what happened in the MMO. You know, which was which was an incredible little easter egg.

So, you know, you know. And the

animatrix. You know, the

And the animatrix too. Yeah. That’s right. All formats. Yeah.

Yeah. They did they did everything. And yeah. It’s it’s taken a while for for video game companies to kinda get that. Too.

And I think it’s starting to happen with cyberpunk, the witcher as well, also by CD pro CD proactively activate. I’m trying to pronounce that right in in in Polish. But, you know, the CBPR has a success with the witcher series. The the witcher series now is kind of like not not doing great right now, but, like, when it initially launched, it was a huge success for the game, and it it resulted in further game sales. And this was a old game.

This is a game that came out in two thousand fifteen. Selling loan in twenty nineteen. So again, like, so many people will be looking at this. How can we do that? How can we continue the the the the sales life of the game after it’s come out, you know.

Have you seen have you seen the sales figures on the last of us? Is that seen a big spike

I haven’t they haven’t released any numbers, but it has been topping the the Playstation charts in the past weeks. So it is, like, the number one, like, PS4 game. Like PS five game, people are definitely playing. So I don’t know if it’s been like a massive, massive success, but it’s definitely movie units And that’s what that’s what you want. You know, like like they they want you to buy the game, you know.

Neil dropped into the the series creator. Craig was like, maybe you don’t even buy a game. He’s like, no. No. No.

Please buy the game. Yeah. They want you to buy the game. They want the the the show is made for you to play the game. And the PC release of of the last of us coming out today, and, you know, it it might not have been time to be the at the end of the show, but it’s perfect timing.

And, you know, I’m sure that a lot of PC players who would never play the game before, but watch the show will be like, yeah, I should

All right, Jean. Thank you for being on the show today. I really appreciate it. We’ll get you we’ll get you back on here next year once the the video game boom is in full swing. And everybody is breaking blockbuster records and everything.

We’ll see we’ll see

Mario Mania from here on out. That’s that’s the

Mario. That movie was gonna make I I I I’m taking my kids. It’s the first time they’ve been in a theater in three months. They’re so excited. Alright.

I’m Sonny Bunch, I’m culture editor. Ethical work. I’m very pleased that you all hang or hanging out with me and Jean today. I’ll be back next week with another episode. We’ll see you guys

in.