Former FBI Director James Comey joins Tim Miller to discuss the choices he made in 2016, the DOJ's self-sabotaging avoidance of the media, and how to maintain your integrity and principles in the face of a lying, lawless bastard. Plus, Ben Wittes in New York updates the status of the Trump trial, and praises the fairness of Judge Merchan.
show notes:
Tim Miller did what I thought was very difficult, if not impossible: talking about all the questions I'd want to ask Comey about his mentioning of Clinton just before the election. And he did it truthfully, and didn't pull his punches. He got so much out of the man, and was charming, and meaningful throughout. Both men were!
Someone described the Trump Trial as the series finale where characters from other seasons popped up like Hope Hicks & Madeleine Westerhout.
I thought to myself that it's missing a James Comey cameo. . . . Now here he is.
You know someone described the Trump Trial as the series finale where characters from previous seasons pop back up like Hope Hicks and Madeleine Westerhout . . . And I thought to myself we only need James Comey to make an appearance . . . And look here he is
I found myself listening to Comey talk about how Garland and others should have handled the media during these investigations thinking "The audacity of this effing guy..."
Tough for Comey to interview as so many are angry with him specifically. You did a great interview Tim. Appreciate it. Let us all recognize that we have one thing to tackle this November and that is keeping tfg out of office. Let’s use every opportunity possible.
“Trumpettes” PERFECT! So much more appropriate than most names for the cultists!
Nikki reminds me of one of those human windsocks you see outside used car lots. Flailing around, smiling and pandering to gullible chumps. But go inside the dealership, and nobody's there who actually wants to help you. For too long, her act has been, basically, insulting. To the voters, to citizens. To any ordinary person simply trying to make sense of this year's momentous Pennant. We need more of the straight and upright, and a lot less moral betrayal.
I was so ready to be screaming while listening to Comey. At the end, I was more sad that millions voted for Trump in 2016, even with all the Hillary hate. What he said back then was plenty to see him as unfit, and people still went along. Tim certainly did an excellent job interviewing and has taken the daily pod to the next level of excellence in my opinion.
Ben,
You may have thought that Costello on the stand had "...an Italian last name" because of the infamous NYC Frank Costello mafiosi, who was born Francesco Castiglia in the Calabria region of Italy.
"Costello" is actually an Irish name, pronounced "Coss-tell-oh" the anglicization of the Gaelic-version.
Costello's birth name was Castiglia. He went by Costello as a concession to the (then) dominance of Irish-American gangsters.
A7 xcydgd
Tim, I wish you would have asked if Comey's remaining "comfortable" with his decision is a credible standard.
Similar to: Impaired people make impaired judgements and have impaired memories of outcomes.
He was 100%, all in, for discrediting Hillary. Dude, I don't think you even know how your OWN brain 'works'.
My eyes skipped right over JAMES COMEY and landed with true delight on Ben. When Tim introduced Comey, my stomach hit the floor. IMO, he remains as delusional ("protect public faith and confidence") as any MAGA. Zero self reflection and accountability there.
Tim, I thank you and applaud you for making interviews like this happen. Keep up the good work.
Sorry Tim, had to skip ahead to Ben Wittes. After reading in Copeland’s book of Comey’s Orwellian role as chief enforcer of Ray Dalio’s “radical transparency” at Bridgewater, he lost all credibility.
But if James Comey had followed guidelines he should only have said that the investigation into Hilary’s personal email server had been closed for lack of evidence. Nothing else; anything more was hubris. He clearly contributed to Hilary’s loss. And BTW I recall reading that at the time, the official server she should have been on was hacked.
I voted for Hillary. I will never and have never held it against Jim Comey. I think he’s been transparent and willing to listen more than most folks in the halls of power and I for one am a huge fan. Plus, he’s a giraffe. <— from his autobiography, my fav part. JC is a great American. There, I said it!
Tim, I listen to you despite my distaste for your overuse of the variations of "fuck." I too am a grandpa. I'm also a retired sailor... and a retired middle school teacher. You are much to articulate to so lazily resort to crudity to make your point. I appreciated you trying to respect Mr. Comey by toning it down...
No, Mr. Comey. Disgraceful is almost exclusively a Right Wing Nut word.
Just so you know, Tim, grandparents know, and use those words.
Just in: Nikki Haley, garbage person. She will be consigned to the dustbin of time. What a pos.
I tend to agree with Tim, that blunting Trump and MAGA during the first administration spared us the worst and so made it easier to amble along and continue to boil in the pot. Had we been hit hard and fast with Trump unleashed, perhaps we would've gotten rid of him sooner.
I feel the same about J6. It's a wonderful thing that loss of life and property was relatively limited; that nobody hung Mike Pence, or got their hands on Nancy Pelosi, but if they had, we wouldn't be debating J6 today. We would've come down hard on everyone and the shock would've likely been enough to jolt the country out of its stupor. Still, it would've been terrible. Both doors lead to hell, indeed...
Yes, I felt that way about January 6th for quite a while. Even if it wasn't pence or pelosi hurt - if one of the cops had had to kill more insurrectionists because they got too close to a congress person you really have to wonder how it'd be viewed now
On the topic of widespread domestic violence around the election, Jim Comey mentioned he's hopeful that enough people have had consequences that future incidents will be limited to lone actors here and there.
That is my hope also.
My bigger concern is that if Trump does get a second term and pardons everyone involved in the insurrection, that the idea that "deterrence is working" goes out the window.
That kind of a pardon would do on a Federal level what Gov. Abbott's pardon did on a state level in Texas. It would be a direct message from the President that there will be no consequences for political violence as long as it's targeted at the President's enemies.
Tim,
You mentioned that one of the reasons people might on board with a second Trump term is because institutionalists protected us and there weren't consequences from his first term.
I've had similar thoughts on that topic.
Had some of Trump's crazier ideas during his first term been allowed to proceed to the consequences phase, maybe people would realize what a colossally bad idea giving him a second term would be.
I think there is a segment of the voters who aren't aware how many people in his administration were working to keep the train mostly on the rails during his the first term. And also, that they won't be there for a second term.
What. The F---. Comey is ABSOLUTELY responsible for electing Trump! He released info days before the election on an investigation that went NOWHERE, and kept his mouth shut on Trump investigation that was worse! He's an arrogant a-hole, STILL an arrogant a-hole if he would not change anything of what he did before, and F--- COMEY. If he'd followed the STANDARD Justice Dept rules about keeping your mouth shut on ongoing investigations we would not be in the position we are in now where we risk losing our whole democracy! DISGUSTING.
The news about Hillary's emails before the election hurt her, but did it throw the election to Trump? I can't be as sure as you on that. Do you think enough Americans would vote for a woman to be President? A woman who was a US Senator, and Secretary of State that used a private server for some government emails--OMG No!! But put a grotesque man in the White House who has zero qualifications in public service and says he grabs women by the pussy, oh that's fine. Sadly, I don't think most Americans would've elected any woman for president in 2016, and to me it seems even less likely now than it did 8 years ago.
I don't disagree with what you say generally, but I definitely remember a distinct frustration and disgust with voters and the "just one more straw" nature of Comey coming out with his arrogant announcement. Some articles:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/
https://minnesotareformer.com/2022/06/30/upset-about-roe-v-wade-blame-james-comey-opinion/
Wonderful interview Tim! Extremely thoughtful questioning. I can't count how many times he said, "great question." You got philosophy from him. Kudos!
Comey came off as more likable than I expected him to. I guess the big question I would have wanted to ask wouldn't be about Hillary-- he practically had to reveal what he knew, partly because some Giuliani-friendly FBI people allegedly were going to out her otherwise-- but why it was okay to announce the investigation into Hillary while never announcing the one into Trump and his campaign's ties with Russia.
I have seen Comey talk before and I always have had the thought of "how is this the same guy?" ....but at the same I certainly have ended up in the "people are gonna hate me if I do the right thing" dilemma ( as relatively as possible considering who he is 😆) but will always agree that it's best to follow conscience. Point being: I agree with your comment plus my .02
Good conversation with Comey, would be good to get him on again after the payoff case and immunity verdict. Not surprised that Haley decided to bend the knee but wondering what does that really get her in the end except for the loss of another vertebrae in her spine. I highly recommend spending some time checking out the content Ben and Co. have been putting out over on Lawfare regarding the all of TFGs legal wranglings.
It gets her VP. She is his best shot at winning, and that his top priority. He has others, but they are moot if he loses
TFG has a problem with people especially women that are perceived as strong. I don't see him bringing on anyone that might take some of the spotlight from him or that it could be said that he won because of them. My $.02
and this just in. Halley said she's voting for Trump
Oooooooof. Barf. There’s another balloon popped for no reason ug.
Of course. She's so pathetic.
pausing at end of Comey to say and ask a couple of things. First, it's kinda rich for James Comey, who arguably said to much, to call out Garland for saying too little. I don't envy either of them their choices, but he should choose to pass on criticism.
Second, in the Ashcorft scene--who were the a-holes running to get him to sign, and where are they now? As Tim suggested, there were some pretty off people around W, and I would be interested how many of them are MAGA, and how fast they got there
One of them was Andrew Card. The other *might* have been Alberto Gonzalez.
People in the comments (both here and on reddit) who think that Comey was the determining factor in Hillary's loss *still* don't understand how deep the anti-establishment vibes and misogyny in this country were and are--even all these 8 years later!
The 2016 election was a referendum on the establishment class (HRC, Obama, Bush, etc.) versus the anti-establishment (Trump). HRC was the face of the establishment class and Trump was the only "outsider" candidate--besides Bernie on the left--who wanted sweeping change of "the system" and how our nation ran. Trump was the wrecking ball that anti-establishment Americans wanted to break the system, and Comey had absolutely nothing to do with the desires of anti-establishment voters to change how things in this country were going. No accountability for the intel community after "WMDs in Iraq" didn't pan out, Wall Street bailed out while Main Street failed during the '08 GFC, conspiracy theories about elites rigging the country for themselves running rampant online since the advent of social media, the rise of antigovernment/anti-institution vibes during all of that time.... Comey had nothing to do with those things and they were the determining factor.
And this is all before you talk about a critical mass of the country straight up not wanting a woman for president via misogyny--let alone a woman of the establishment class like Hillary (Kamala suffers from this problem as well). It's also before you talk about the anti-liberalism whitelash in the wake of the rise of BLM and identity politics on the left.
I used to always think that HRC was being a bit paranoid about a "vast right wing conspiracy," but really, she was right. Not just about trashing her at every opportunity, but also about ensuring that the government DOESN'T work for us. Democrats want the government to work; the Republicans don't really care if it works as long as the financial markets work. Short term thinking though, IMHO. No one really wants to invest in a country without the rule of law.
Trump's victory was VERY narrow - hundreds of votes in a few states. It took many factors to bring that about - HRC's incompetence as a candidate, Russia's interference via social media, and Comey's letter all played roles. Was any one factor alone decisive? No, but the camel's back was broken, whether we can assign blame to one factor or not.
The Dems had an open court for a slam dunk against a reality show huckster and couldn't do it.
Nikki just said she’s voting for Trump
It's disappointing but not surprising. Unlike most people around Trump she still has a moral compass, but she purposely demagnetized it a long time ago.
Haley is who she’s always been. I never understood the hope about her.
That figures.
Dangit Geoff, I was enjoying the podcast. But thanks for letting me know.
Also, she does not want to be exiled from her social world on Kiawah Island
She wants to be VP
He needs to win. With Haley he is probably assured of that. If he loses, he's f-ed.
I'm not so sure any of the other VP preeners can say that. Maybe Rubio, but he has to move.
Great Interview.
This listening allowed me to allow Comey to be more three-dimensional from the person, albeit I still believe he was too responsible for Trump winning 2016.
Tim,
You must have been dozing off in your Jebbie high school religion/theology classes...theologian Karl Paul Reinhold Niebuhr has been part of most Catholic theology classes since the 1970s.
Possible, I dozed off during classes at times! But I loved my religion theory classes so it couldn't have been that central.
Yes, I was lucky enough to attend a diococen Catholic college in the Vatican Two era when all students were required to take 5 theology courses and 5 philosophy courses.
The five theological courses I chose were taught by a Jesuit priest, Benedictine nun, Episcopalian scriptural Canon, a Rabbi (obviously Old Testament), and a Diocesen priest.
Talk about a variety of theological theory!
Keep up the good work, Youngblood!
I remember the day. I remember where I was when I read the news. I was at work. I became physically ill because I knew it was over. Aside from the unambiguous threat to the Constitution and the demise of our polity, there are other losses. I know people who have lost friends (me), people who have become estranged to family (me), and marriages that have ended (friends, neighbors). The last eight years have been terrible. And to think we are about to extend this national tragedy another four years or even more.
I don't blame Mr. Comey for what has befallen our country. That's on the American people. But this conversation made me numb.
I blame him. He’s not the only one I blame but he’s in a select group. He totally ignored his chain of command for self-aggrandizement.
Comey broke everything—his chain of command, prosecutorial behavior, the election. If he was shooting off his mouth he somehow forgot to mention the investigation into Trump.
He’s a smug Boy Scout. He cost us everything.
One of the best aspects of this show is that Tim is a real person and not some “professional” news person. It made this conversation with Comey sound like an actual conversation between two humans. It’s so deeply refreshing and appreciated.
Also, when will VP Harris and President Biden be on?
Do you think if Biden did put a hit on Trump that SCOTUS would rule that he’s immune?
It might depend on how the flag was being flown at the WH.
Did you hear the Alitos had a second symbol at their beach house? Something about returning the country to Christianity.
No, but it doesn't surprise me in the least. Mrs. Alito has really been a busy little bee. Is her Etsy store with the "Death to the Infidels" gear still up?
This was a great convo/episode. Tim, you asked some really great questions to Comey and got some great responses in return. Particularly the convos around institutionalism, whether or not he would have stuck around had he not been sacked, and what former Trump admin officials should be doing in the run up to the election vis-a-vis speaking out. The Ashcroft story was also an eye-opener, thanks for having Jim recount that one.
It was really interesting. I might need to get his new novel.
I dont get why Comey thinks disclosure of an investigation would've been "devastating" to Hillary if it came out after she got elected. She'd have popular support, the bully pulpit, and, as it turns out, the whole thing amounted to zilch. If it didn't, she would've had to deal with it. So what? There is no reason to act on the assumption it would be devastating for a new president. Perhaps for somone up for re-election and down in the polls, not for a brand new president. Sorry, Jim, lame excuse. That he's unaware how flat it falls is telling. I don’t put all the blame on Comey for Trump winning as some do however. That's too convenient and of course ignores a bunch of other factors. Here's this arrogant (but I think well meaning) FBI director who should've not weighed in so close to election time. His bloated self-regard and disingenuous hand-wringing outweighed prudence. Also, maybe an experienced bureaucrat and Sec of State shouldn't have cavalierly been raising red flags by using a private server, ignoring the rust belt, calling disenfranchised uneducated people living there "deplorables", etc. She was the smartest most capable figure in 2016 yet managed to lose. The anti-establishment vibe was clearly in the air. Comey knew it. It's why he felt he had to overcompensate. He twists his meddling in to transparency to demonstrate he's not afraid to meddle. And this choice and excuse fall utterly and objectively flat , regardless of how blithely sure of himself he appears when defending it.
I sense that all the pearl-clutching about Trump is evading the real issue. His nefarious political skill is that he excels in bringing out the best of the bad in all of us. From Wikipedia: "Demagogues exploit a fundamental weakness in democracy: because ultimate power is held by the people, it is possible for the people to give that power to someone who appeals to the lowest common denominator of a large segment of the population." Trump's political ascendency is a commentary on our frailties, not his.
Oh look. The lifelong registered Republican with multiple advanced degrees claims he had no idea that his actions mentioning the investigation of one candidate and remaining silent on the multiple investigations of the other candidate would impact the election.....
That's not what he said. He said it would have been inappropriate to take the election impact into account.
And "the FBI doesn't give a crap what political party you are from" is absolute bullshit. It was well known that the NY office was full of Trump supporters, and a majority of law enforcement is conservative. Comey himself is (or was ) a Republican!
Every FBI director ever has been a Republican. Yet Republicans now think the FBI is a nest of anti-Trump Democrats. If the FBI is trying to help Republicans, it's not very effective.
I'm sorry, but he totally broke protocol by commenting on an investigation, he didn't comment about the investigation into Trump, he shouldn't have commented on Hillary.