A.B. Stoddard: McCarthy’s Month from Hell

Welcome to the Bulwark podcast. I’m Charlie Sykes. Believe it or not. It is September thirteenth two thousand twenty three, and we are rolling closer to yet another Shambalak Autumn, and I feel very lucky to be joined by the newest member of team Bulwark, a b Stoddard, who joined us just a couple of days ago. So welcome back, ABy, in a more formal way.

Charlie, it’s so wonderful to be with you as always, and I’m just so pumped to be on team board. I’m still kinda pinching myself?

Well, we have a lot to talk about today. This is another one of those days where you have to look around and go, okay. So, should we treat this as a normal political moment? Or could we acknowledge that kind of we’ve broken the glass on all of this? I in in my newsletter this morning, and by the way, people who listen to the podcast can also subscribe to, you know, my morning shots, newsletter.

I kind of sat back and tried to take a little stock. You know, let let’s review where we’re at here on Capitol Hill. We we’ve spent a lot of time talking about the presidential race, but meanwhile, on Capitol Hilling, Kevin McCarthy’s House of Representatives, you have prominent and influential congressional Republicans who are either advocating or considering ousting and humiliating their own speaker impeaching the president of the United States, seceding from the union, defunding the Department of Justice and the FBI, defending prosecutors, blocking military promotions, defunding the defense secretary, that’s Mike Lee’s idea, abandoning Ukraine, And here’s the cherry, shutting down the whole government. And we haven’t even gotten to rallying around the twice in peach defeated, disgraced, four time indicted former president. So, I mean, this is an interesting moment, isn’t it that Kevin McCarthy steps out yesterday and says, okay, despite the fact that just eleven days ago, I said that we would have a vote to authorize, an impeachment inquiry.

I’m gonna go ahead. We are going to have an impeachment inquiry of Joe Biden, even though we don’t have any evidence that he’s done anything, impeachable. So, a, b, you’ve been watching this for a long time. What’s going on?

So Charlie, I wish I had the date, but sometime a long time ago on this podcast, I did say that they would impeach Joe Biden. It was in twenty twenty two, sometimes last

year. Inevitable.

And it was a certainty because Donald Trump is not only demanding that his impeachment be, quote, unquote, expunged, but that they impeached Joe Biden, in retaliation for his impeachments. Of course, the substance of which we’re not even gonna get into. Of course, he deserved to be impeached and convicted both times I still lose sleep over it. I still gnashed my teeth over it. But this was what the base would demand and what the screamers in the conference would also be championing.

And so it was gonna come to this. It doesn’t matter what it’s for. It’s now gonna be like a hunter based thing, but not only was it always coming, but it’s part of Kevin McCarthy’s way of trying to say them, and they cannot be sated, the fire breathers, while he attempts to govern and help out his moderates so that he sort of maybe thinks it might be possible in fourteen months to hold the house. And that’s looking bleak. So as a strategy, it’s terrible.

But I think he much like the orange man baby, Kevin McCarthy has to live in the day. He really can’t even live in the month. He kind of just has to get through the next hour. And that’s what Trump does. I mean, that’s the way that trump’s pathological, you know, makeup is But for McCarthy, he literally can’t plan out nine days from now.

So today, he’s trying to get a bunch of appropriations bills lumped together and hopes that he can get agreement on them to send them to the Senate while he’s giving the go ahead for this impeachment that is very likely to backfire on them, and he knows that, and likely to help out Joe Biden probably.

Think we’re gonna look back on this as a lifeline because Joe Biden has been flailing. He’s had a lot of negative news coverage. You have columns like David Ignnation in the Washington Post saying he shouldn’t run for reelection, but what do Republicans do as they decide that this is the moment where they’re going to impeach him round the cusp of shutting down the government, and so they’re gonna have to convince the American public that that they’re actually serious people. But let’s go ahead and stick with with Kevin McCarthy because, you know, I’ve mocked him, you know, for himself gelding himself into the speakership, but he continues this parade of humiliation. This walk of shame where he displays the hollowness of his speakership and the incredible weakness to come out and, you know, announce this clearly as an effort to appease the right wing and to somehow buy himself some time And, of course, this comes in juxtaposition with somebody like a Matt Gates who takes to the floor of the House of Representatives And just it was on morning, Joe, this morning, and they were asking, can can you imagine any Democratic representative speaking this way about Nancy Pelosi, the way that Matt Gates talked about Kevin McCarthy on the floor of the house.

Let’s play that.

On this very floor in January, the whole world witnessed a historic contest for house speaker. I rise today to serve notice. Mister speaker, you are out of compliance with the agreement that allowed you to assume this role. The path forward for the House of Representatives I to either bring you into immediate total compliance or remove you pursuant to emotion to vacate the chair. We have had no vote on term limits or on balanced budgets as the agreement demanded and required.

There’s been no full release of the six tapes. As you promised, there has been insufficient accountability for the Biden crime family, and instead of cutting spending to raise the debt limit, you rely on budgetary gimmicks and recisions so that you ultimately ended up serving as the valet to underwrite by in debt and advance his spending agenda. Mister speaker, you boasted in January that we would use the power of the subpoena and the power of the purse. But here we are. Eight months later, and we haven’t even sent the first subpoena to hunter Biden.

That’s how you know that the rush And, you know, somewhat rattled performance you just saw from the speaker isn’t real. At this point during democrat control over the House of Representatives, they had already brought in Don Junior three times.

Wow. Wow. Just like, we until you come into complete and total plants. And even then, we will make you beg and crawl upon your belly. I mean, this is really an interesting moment And the contrast between Nancy Pelosi who had pretty much the same majority that Kevin McCarthy had, and yet she was able to get stuff done, And McCarthy has to endure this sort of thing and keep throwing red meat to these, you know, baby alligators and hoping they won’t eat him.

And of course, they’re going to eat him. Of course, they’re gonna come out of the bathtub and eat him. And Kevin McCarthy just keep no. I’m gonna appease as fast as I can. Look, you know, this is going to be McCarthy’s month from hell.

And there are a lot of reasons for that. But what’s interesting to me is that he’s apparently determined to drag the rest of the country. The rest of the United States of America along with him. If it means shutting down the government to appease them, he will do that. If it means you know, going through the sham impeachment inquiry that he doesn’t have the votes for, then he’s gonna do that.

Right? If it will keep the gavel in his sweaty palms for another you know, another week or so.

That’s exactly his intention. It’s just it’s just to survive. I do wanna give a shout out to Matt Lewis at the daily beast to wrote a column, I think, yesterday or last night about about humiliation and shamelessness, you know, being McCarthy’s secret weapon. I mean, his the the the other back, it’s just invoked Nancy Pelosi in his humiliation, of speaker McCarthy was really something. At this point, they had brought in Don junior three times.

It’s just such a perfect sum of how willing he is to be dragged around the floor by these people. That’s what Matt Lewis is description of McCarthy is that who would want this job where you’re not allowed to lead and they get to shoot you on any given day, like, without notice? That’s the It is literally the deal that McCarthy agreed to, was that they could fire him at any time easily. And the problem for this move to use impeachment as a way of maybe helping him get the government’s spending bills out the door eventually. It’s

not gonna work.

After a shutdown is twofold. One, once you commence this inquiry, you it leads to impeachment. No one’s walking away.

Right. They’re

gonna pretend what they found as a bombshell, and they’re gonna impeach show Biden. Number two, they intend to shut the government down anyway because in the debt ceiling deal that he came to in May with president Biden, he had to beg and plead for a stay of execution because it was default. So he basically traded with the hardliners the deal that would avert default in order for them to be able to act out their anger with a less dangerous shutdown in September or October?

Well, the other problem that he has is that he has to do whatever Donald Trump demands that he do. I mean, I I do think that at some level of his consciousness, he he knows that this impeachment inquiry is, is politically a disaster that I think it’s gonna backlash on But this is what Donald Trump is demanding, and Donald Trump has made no secret of. It’s, I mean, what a surprise to find out that, you know, Donald Trump has been working behind the scenes, you know, talking with Sophonic to do this, because I do think it’s important to understand why this Biden impeachment is so crucial for Donald Trump. I mean, some of it is is obvious, but I but I think we need it to go through it. I mean, clearly, it’s a, you know, weapon of mass distraction.

I mean, it changes the subject. I mean, that’s pretty obvious, but also it’s an instrument of moral flattening. And this is something that people like Steve Bannon and Donald Trump know, which is that you flood the zone with shit so that if you are a shitty person, you look around and go, well, everybody’s shitty. Right? If everybody’s a crook, nobody’s If everybody’s impeached, then impeachment is no longer this badge of shame.

So, you know, he wants to go into twenty twenty four and people are gonna go, why? You know, you got for indictments. He’s ninety one felony Charlie Sykes, and he wants to be able to say and the Republican party will be able to say, well, what about Hunter’s laptop? Right? I mean, that’s this notion that you devalue, you know, fudge up in this slurry of b s, the distinctions between serious wrongdoing and just allegations.

And, you know, you think about how thin the allegations are against Biden. I mean, look, if they have the goods, fine. Go ahead. I mean, if it turns out that he was pocketing money from Hunter Biden’s miasma of corruption, then, you know, that then he needs to be held accountable. But the fact that they’re launching this before they have any evidence is is really quite extraordinary.

You know, so for example, I mean, Philip bump ran this down back in nineteen seventy four, They didn’t begin the Nixon impeachment inquiry before they had a special council and all those other investigations. In nineteen ninety eight, the star report was already out before Republicans, ill advisedly moved against Bill Clinton in, you know, two thousand nineteen. We had the whistleblower. We have independent reporting. Obviously, in twenty twenty one, there had been the attack on the capital and the attempts to overturn the election.

In twenty twenty three, what do they have? They don’t have anything. And and one of the ways you know they don’t have anything is that Republican members of the house are telling us this. I mean, here’s Ken Buck who’s a very conservative Republican from Colorado talking about this.

Well, perhaps congressman, Marjorie Miller Green, who you have been pretty vocal in in pushing back on is getting your message. Cause yesterday, she posted quote, this, quote. Our country deserves for Congress to vote for an impeachment inquiry for very important reasons, not a rush impeachment. Vote. That is a bit of a shift in the timeline.

A little bit of a pumping of the brakes on it. What did you make of that?

Well, Marjorie filed impeachment, articles of impeachment on president Biden before he

was sworn into

office more than two and a half years So the idea that that she is now the expert on impeachment or that she is, someone who should set the timing on impeachment is absurd the the time for impeachment is the time when there’s evidence linking president Biden, if there’s evidence linking president Biden to a high crime or misdemeanor. That doesn’t exist right now. And it is really something that we can say, well, in February, we’re gonna do this. It it is it’s based on the facts. You go where the facts take you.

So, he’s not alone in that. There have been a number of publicans who are saying, do we really wanna do this? And I guess this goes to the the the point you were making AB about the future of the house One of the reasons why Kevin McCarthy didn’t have the votes to actually launch this is there are a lot of vulnerable Republicans in swing seats who are going no. No. No.

This is crazy. Why would we do this?

Precisely. And they’ve gone on TV, like, Ken Bucken and said, that the house doesn’t have what they need to proceed with an inquiry. They made it clear to the speaker they weren’t gonna support it and the vote would have failed. That’s why he had to announce an an inquiry on his own after saying, you know, just in the last two weeks that it needed a vote of the house. So criticizing Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats in twenty nineteen for not using a vote in the house.

So like I said, we can see exactly where this pressure came from and why it came to a head and he had to do what he said he wouldn’t do. The problem is that In order to survive in these races, those moderates are gonna continue to criticize the investigation until and unless there is that evidence? In order to survive in their own campaigns and their own districts where Biden won. And so, again, you’re gonna have an impeachment, and you’re gonna have a shutdown. And it is, in the end, gonna hurt the larger Republican Party’s chances of holding the house.

It is going to maybe help Kevin keep his speakership. But the flood’s its own thing is so important, Charlie Sykes know you’ve talked about this and you’re writing about it this morning. It’s what Donald Trump learned from his, you know, study of all the autocrats, and it is so incredibly effective to continue to just bring up it’s what you know, his wife is a promised whammy. He just he runs his mouth And he’s so articulate, and he’s so new and exciting. And people just buy whatever he says.

It doesn’t matter if he’s contrary to consign, he said the day before, or he’s just, like, you know, telling a lie that’s gonna be debunked online within the next hour. You just keep moving and you just hurl your b s loudly and with some outrage. And it gets you far in fundraising, in your branding, your spotlight, But at the same time, it really will help Donald Trump in a campaign against Joe Biden next year if the focus all the time is on, you know, hundred Biden’s dealings and whether or not his father was involved. That dominating the headlines is really going to help Trump.

Well, this is one of the reasons why, the White House is, is really pushing back. They put out a fourteen page really detailed sort of dossier, knocking down all the allegations and kind of challenging the news media. You should not just treat this as a he said, she said, or a horse race. You you need to shine the spotlight on some of these guys like James Comer who have been discredited again and again. I think they understand that.

But to your point, it’s not just flooding the zone. It’s also the the use of what aboutism, which now seems kind of old. But I just wanna remind people how powerful that is, that for many voters, you present them with the evidence of Donald Trump’s criminality. And the most effective way to combat that is, well, what about this? Now By the way, can I just make a pro tip for everybody out there?

Here’s, like, your homework assignment, if you’re listening to this podcast, or read my newsletter. Go Google, Jared Kushner, and Saudi sovereign wealth fund. It’s just fascinating. And by the way, I have no idea why Democrats in the Senate have not begun investigations into Jared Kushner actually worked for the government as did his daughter. Okay.

I’m just leaving that that aside. But what about ism, is a powerful weapon Now I hesitate to say this because it’s kind of the PTSD of going back to twenty sixteen. And at the time, I will confess that I did not appreciate how effective this would be. You remember after access Hollywood when everybody thought he was dead. He was talking about grabbing women, you know, by their private parts and everything.

And you had a lot of Republicans that bailed on him. He looked really, really shaky. There was all of this speculation about replacing him, and he had a debate with Hillary Clinton. Do you remember what he did? He staged this amazing outrageous stunt that turned out to be very effective.

He brought in all of the women who had made allegations against Will Saletan, and he just paraded them out there. And he, you know, had a press thing, you know, there was Donald Trump saying, so you’re all gonna bail on me. You’re gonna hold it against me that I engaged in this locker room talk. Look at these women who actually made these allegations. And I think you look back on that and realize how effectively he discredited the attacks against him.

And I think that This is one of the things that Donald Trump is doing. He’s flooding the zone. He’s he’s employing what about ism, but he’s also been very effective. Let’s acknowledge this in delegitimizing any institution that stands against him, destroying those guardrails that used protect us against this kind of demagoguery. So think about how effective he has been in delegitimizing and discrediting all of his media critics, all of the investigative reporting, and now in his long march through our institutions, He is now using the same tactics to discredit the courts, the prosecutors, juries so that at the end of the day, Even if he’s convicted of felonies, people will say, well, that’s just those bogus deep state prosecutors and juries.

I mean, he is setting up to discredit all of these things that we had taken for granted in a normal world would be guardrails.

Oh, Charlie. Yes. He’s

Too much for a waste

this morning, man. He is, you know, he’s very effective that we really are waiting to see the reaction of sort of mom and pop American who is not politically addicted, take in Donald Trump in a courtroom, what these trials, reveal evidence we’ve not yet been privy to in the foreign indictments, maybe what is revealed in potential superseding indictments. We don’t yet know what the response will be of sort of the middle of of the country voter. Yeah.

The normal voters.

Yeah. And so that is, I think, we’re holding out. I wanna hold out some hope for for that. I wanna hold out hope for the seriousness of the jury process that a citizen might go in with their partisan leanings and know who Trump and Biden are and have voted for or against, but combine in a room, twelve of you, you know, feel the pressure of their civic burden to take in real truth, real facts, and and assess them fairly. I want to believe that this will all work.

We don’t know. The system will be tested. Like, it’s never been before. We don’t know where this takes us, and it is true that his ability as long as we are talking, I believe about Hunter and Joe Biden every other day. And the Republicans and Congress can keep that alive as much as they can next year, even if they don’t have, you know, some smoking gun evidence, I think that’s a problem.

That helps even a Trump who’s sitting in a courtroom not saying anything all day.

Hey, folks. This is Charlie Sykes, host of the Bulwark podcast. We created the Bulwark to provide a platform for pro democracy voices on the center right and the center left for people who are tired of tribalism and who value truth and vigorous yet civil debate about politics and a lot more. And every day, we remind you folks. You are not the crazy ones.

So why not head over to the Bulwark dot com and take a look around. Every day, we produce newsletters and podcasts that will help you make sense of our politics and keep your sanity intact. To get a daily dose of sanity in your inbox, why not try a Bulwark plus membership free for the next thirty days to claim this offer, go to the bulwark dot com slash Charlie Sykes. That’s the bulwark dot com forward slash Charlie Sykes gonna get through this together. I promise.

Okay. So let’s take a deep breath here and talk about, the subject that so many of our listeners apparently do not ever wanna talk about. Today, I I’m guessing that Washington DC is very much a buzz, by this column in the Washington Post by David Ignatius. Who is a highly respected columnist whose work is closely and widely read within the White House and political circles, and David Ignatius writes today for the very first time president Biden should not run again in twenty twenty four. So let me just read a couple of paragraphs here.

What I admire most about president Biden is that in a polarized nation, he has governed from the center out as he promised in his victory speech with an unexpectedly steady hand He passed some of the most important domestic legislation in recent decades in foreign policy. He managed the delicate balance of helping Ukraine fight Russia without getting America itself into a war. In some, he has been a successful and an effective president, but I do not think that Biden vice president Harris should run for reelection. It’s painful to say that given my admiration for much of what they’ve accomplished. But if he and Harris campaign together in twenty twenty four, I think Biden risk undoing his great achievement, which was stopping Trump.

Now this sounds vaguely like something that you wrote somewhat recently. So give me your thoughts on why do you think David Ignasse is decided he was gonna drop this piece now.

I find this so fascinating Charlie Sykes of all, David, welcome to the club. I’ve been writing about this since last July. That’s when started July of twenty twenty two. I have written multiple columns about this, both at Real Clear Politics and the Bulwark. And recently, two weeks ago, wrote about how a ticket, like Whitmer warnock, is required to decisively and the threat of Trump and a second term of Trump and the end of democracy and his Democrats took that seriously, they would consider how weak a position Joe Biden’s in.

I know the audience of the board wrestles with this and is frustrated because Joe Biden

— Yes.

Has accomplished so much, and I listed those accomplishments in the piece I actually, in every presentation I give to any audience. I go through every single unexpected odds were against it. Peace of consequential law that was passed with Republicans cooperating with no math and no margin in either chamber. It has literally been a golden era of bipartisanship. That Obama and Trump could only have dreamt about, completely unexpected.

And and I think, you know, he has been an, really accomplished president in less than three years’ time, fighting serious challenges, inflation being, of course, just the latest from COVID to Ukraine and on and on. I really look at the situation that we’re in with the polling in the general election matchup showing Trump is stronger than he was in twenty twenty. And I think Democrats have to come around to this idea that Joe Biden is written off because of his age by a large portion of electorate and a significant faction of his coalition, Charlie, which is these young voters and also working class non white voters who are suffering whose wages have not kept up with price hikes, they’re just looking at Joe Biden, and it it’s like a gateway issue. They look at him and they say, he just can’t do this job anymore. They don’t know about his accomplishments.

They give him no credit for his accomplishments. If you sat down and explained them to him, they say that sounds nice. But they’ve moved on. And I think that is a problem that will get worse in the next fourteen months, not better. And I actually just wanna end by saying very brave of Ignatius to piss off the people he speaks to on a regular basis.

By coming out and saying this because this is not the company line. And I think that he sees this as the emergency that I do.

Well, he also makes a parallel point. He he not only does not think that Joe Biden should run for election. He doesn’t think that Kamala Harris should run for reelection. Fact, he basically makes the the case. And I think this is where a lot of people come up against it, which is that, okay, what is plan being?

We’ve talked about this, many, many times. And It is not clear to me that Kamala Harris is a stronger general election candidate. And he basically writes her off saying, yeah, she’s not going to do it, and then he floats out some other names. As well. So that’s where I’m I’m kind of puzzled how he thinks that works, how he thinks the Joe Biden and Kamala Harris together basically say, okay, we’ve accomplished everything we’re gonna accomplish.

You know, this mission has been finished. And now we need to pass the baton. I can see Joe Biden doing it. I don’t think he will, but I can see him doing. I can’t see Kamala Harris.

So there seemed to be a little bit of wishful thinking. On ignatius’ part.

No. There’s no question. There’s wishful thinking on my part that this would unite the party that they would put their ambition and politics and their policy agendas behind the need to protect the constitutional order and to prevent a second term of Trump that they would put that first. Yeah. There is some wishful thinking.

I think I agree with you, Charlie Sykes probably too much to ask Harris to drop out. I’m recommending, and that there are many people at the board who disagree with me. In fact, everyone, except I think me and Bill believe that, primary is too dangerous and divisive for the Democrats to go through. I don’t. But I do think that advocating for an open primary and for Joe Biden to step aside and bless an open primary and say that he needs to open up the party to future leaders and that this election should not be about him and Trump and the past.

It should be about the future and blessing an open primary where he doesn’t endorse his vice president because presidents don’t pick nominees, voters do. Then you have a primary, and I would expect her to be in it. I don’t expect her to do well. I don’t think she has a constituency within the Democratic party, and I have spoken to Democrats, Bulwark, white Latino, elected, not elected, the woman doesn’t have a base of support. We are always told that black Democrats will rise up in rage.

That she has not been, quote, unquote, supported and endorsed by Biden, should he step aside. But I actually don’t think that that’s true. And I know that black voters were pragmatic, and I wrote about this two weeks ago in the piece in two thousand eight and in two thousand twenty. When they didn’t back Barack Obama because they didn’t think he could win. They backed Hillary.

They only came around to Obama once he won Iowa and showed he could win. They did not back Corey Booker. They did not back Kamala Harris. They did not back Julian Castro They did not back Bernie Sanders. They backed Joe Biden because they thought it would be Trump in twenty twenty.

So I think that Bulwark voters, particularly the older ones in the coalition, and the older ones vote more than the young ones are far more pragmatic than people realize. But I think Harris is very ambitious, and I don’t see her saying I’ll take a pass.

I am squishier on this than you and Bill might be, but The one thing that I I can’t get past is that we’re having this conversation on, September thirteenth two thousand twenty three. What conversation might we be having on September thirteenth twenty twenty four? And what haunts me is let’s start with the premise. That the existential threat to the country is a second Trump presidency. And that that trumps everything.

The dangers that that would represent the constitutional cataclysm that that would would represent has to be avoided at absolutely all costs. What would make it more likely? What happens if we have a Mitch McConnell moment from Joe Biden. This is hypothetical and people can blow on me about this, if you have, you know, a blank moment sometime in September of twenty twenty four or in October of twenty twenty four, or you have another rambling performance like he put on in Hanoi, and I disagree with some of our colleagues about how that went. These are things that could open the door to something that I think that we all recognize or at least tell ourselves we recognize as the worst possible outcome.

So the worst possible outcome is not Joe Biden stepping aside. The worst possible outcome is going somebody who opens the door to Donald Trump returning. And I think Ignatius makes the point. Joe Biden’s greatest accomplishment, his legacy is that he rid the country of Donald Trump. He would undo that if he was not able to be an effective candidate.

Now These are two separate questions. Being an effective and successful president is one thing. We can debate about that. But the real question and nobody knows the answer to this, is will he be a good and effective candidate over the next year and several months? And that I think is is a really troubling question.

And I think that, you know, you’ve you’ve been raising it. Okay. Can we switch to something that’s a much more fun? Yes. Like the best story of the day?

Is there any doubt in your in your mind what the best story of the day is? I mean, a story that I wanna wallow in?

I’m waiting for it.

That if I could put it in the bathtub, I would just bask in it. This story. Do you know who I am? Watch Lauren Bobert get thrown out of a musical for allegedly causing a disturbance She was thrown out of a performance of beetlejuice, the musical on Sunday after she allegedly vaped, caused a disturbance and asked staff, do you know who I am? Denver’s nine news obtained security footage and posted on YouTube, which you can see online.

According to the Denver Post, Lauren Baubert was escorted out of the performance of Beatles Juice, the musical. Along with one other person after three people made complaints about the congresswoman being loud and taking photos on her phone. I just I just Okay. The only thing that makes this better Thank you for participating in this survey. We’ll use the feedback to better serve you Did you hit that?

Yes.

My my watch talking to me.

That’s why you should

have these up to dateable watches. Electronic This is You don’t have an Apple watch?

No.

Well, you think it’s you think it’s monitoring you all the time?

I just don’t want to wear an Apple watch. I have the phone here mail all the time.

Oh, see. I actually kinda like the Apple watch because first of all, you know, it it makes me get up and walk when and kind of Like, you know, it tells me, Charlie, you can do this. You can do ten thousand steps a day. Charlie, you’re not there yet. Charlie, you need to You know, I’m okay.

I I kinda it’s like a, like, a little bit of coach. On the other hand, there is this feature where if I have the y too close to my face and I look at it sometimes. I realize it’s recording everything I just said. It’s like, I can read what I just said in print.

That’s so crazy.

It is It is a little bit creepy, but I suppose this is a lot of modern life. Right? All these things we think of as conveniences, but they’re also conveniences because they’re watching you. And they’re keeping track of everything.

You are not the consumer. You are the product. Yeah.

And I think that that’s the case. Okay. So the only thing that makes the Lauren Bober being escorted out of a performance of beetlejuice, the musical. I am sorry. Is that today was the day that okay.

I’m gonna I’m gonna step on some toes here. This was the day that politico decided to go with a puff piece with the headline. I and I kid you not the headline, Lauren Bobert, Rabbel Rouser in DC public servant back home. On the day she’s escorted out. I think, don’t you know who I am?

That’s just in Lauren Bobert is normal.

Yeah. But public servant back home. The Lauren Bobert you don’t know. The responsible sober, Lauren Bobert. Who is now on videotaping escorted out of the musical version of beetlejuice.

I don’t know. I, you know, I understand that every once in a while, that you wanna write a profile of somebody that’s a little bit contrarian, but You think that somebody at political would have thought, hey, you know what? Maybe not Lauren Bobert, maybe not right now. It’s like ouch.

I just love that a member of Congress so lucky to have survived her second election by just a couple hundred votes, I believe. And she

may not survive the next one.

Right. It’s not interested in carrying herself with any dignity. She’s happy to be there, vaping against the rules, taking pictures, being loud. And then, of course, when they ask her to leave, she has to say, do you know who I am?

I’m going to call the mayor about this because I am important. And well, you you knew that it was going to be entertaining, speaking of entertaining, when one of the storylines of the year was Marjorie Taylor, Green, and Lauren Bobert hate each other.

Oh, that’s my favorite fight in Washington.

It is. Come on. You know, it’s not all doom and gloom. There are things that that that are, you know, amusing and and entertaining. Okay.

So, somewhat less entertaining switching gears again. I don’t wanna get too far out ahead on all of this, because The cock gun is still on the table, but it appears as if Wisconsin Republicans might be blinking about their intention to impeach and remove a newly elected Supreme court justice. Yesterday, the speaker of the Assembly Robin boss, who I’ve described as not a stupid guy, came out and said, You know, all of you have been, you know, helping raise money about this, make this a cause, and but I never said that we were going to impeach Janet Pro to say which, for, ruling on the redistricting. Oh, I never actually said that. So that sounds like a pretty epic walkback.

Basically, for people who are just catching up on all of this, Yes. The Republicans were threatening. They were rolling toward it. Former Governor Scott Walker said the assembly was obligated to impeach her because She had described Wisconsin’s incredibly gerrymandered and rigged legislative districts as rigged And because there’s a lawsuit and she has not recused herself from that, Republican said we have to, remove this Supreme Court justice We receive more than a million votes. We need to undo the election so she does not rule in a case that might put our super majority at risk.

Okay. So this just blew up in their face. And I’ve talked about this before, knowing some of the players that it kinda made my head hurt a little bit to think that don’t you know how this is going to backfire and you don’t you know the firestorm of denunciation. Don’t you realize how you’re going to be flooded with outside money and what the ads are going to look like that you have just erased an election over an issue of redistricting because it’s all about your power. And, apparently, they’re going, yeah, maybe this is not such a good idea.

So Robin boss came out and said, hey, having opposed this years, I’m now willing to embrace having an Iowa style nonpartisan commission that will draw these lines And so he’s basically kind of folding his hand. I’m saying that it’s not yet over because, first of all, sometimes it’s hard to control what the base demands. If the base demands that you remove the Supreme Court justice, it’s hard for them to push back. That’s number one, number two. Democrats don’t trust Robin boss farther than they can throw him.

And so they’re not buying this new conversion. And so It’s certainly conceivable that in a couple of days, they’ll go back to saying again what they claimed they didn’t say before, and they’re gonna try to impeach this justice. But This is kind of an indication of just how radicalized they’ve been that you’d even think about taking someone who’d won a statewide election in April by eleven points with more than a million votes and essentially say we’re gonna nullify the election because we think you pose a threat to our power. It’s unthinkable and yet this is where we’re at in American politics right now.

I think this story has been so fascinating, Charlie. I think Robin Vosse is this really interesting figure from here, you know, everything about him. I know just a little enough to know that he goes in to the swamp of mega only, and then tries to come back and sort of restore his credibility. And then he goes right back in, and he’s sort of always leaping in and out of of the seated waters, but It’s a good description.

It’s

quite obvious that part of Severs’ election is one of the most exciting things that’s happened to the Democrats, it really energizes the grassroots. And the fact that they’ve just come around to the fact, as you point out, that this would be a supercharged to fund raising and get out the vote and volunteering. It’s hilarious. I don’t know if Ron and McDaniel had to call them from RNC headquarters. I wonder who it was.

That pointed this out. But it is very interesting that he suddenly got a little bit nervous and you’re right. The base comes at your you know, they come to your they come to your house. They jump out of your bushes. They threaten your lives.

Who knows? If next week, he’ll be back onto it. But it is a it’s a wonderful story.

That’s right. I mean, you you said how exciting this was toward Democrat. It is impossible to overstate how angry Republicans were over this how bitter they are, how bitter the political and personal animosity is to hear the members of the Supreme court talk about one another. I mean, they hate one another. It’s hard to imagine them even sitting in the same room.

Election night when Pratosewitz won this big election, her opponent, Dan Kelly, who used to be kind of a normal conservative was a Supreme Court justice for a few years. We refused to congratulate her. Basically said, no. You know, some She’s, you know, run this, lying despicable campaign. So there’s a great deal of bitterness, but also the consequence of this are huge because for the last decade and a half, Republicans have counted on the Supreme Court to be kind of the ultimate trump card that we would to back them up.

And now for the first time in a decade and a half, liberals are in charge There are a lot of things that are about to switch. The redistricting is one of them that obviously, you know, got their attention first, but also This changes the entire political environment of Wisconsin for the abortion issue because we have an eighteen forty nine law in the books that is a sweeping ban on abortion. And Supreme Court will ultimately have to decide whether to enforce that or whether or not to throw it out. So The Supreme Court election was very much a binary choice about abortion, but there’s so many other things, the way elections are run-in Wisconsin. We are obviously a crucial swing state that’s become almost a cliche, but the Supreme Court when it was controlled by conservatives came within one vote.

Of hearing Donald Trump’s bogus challenge to the results. It was a four three vote, but now that if there’s a liberal majority, That’s gonna determine how elections are run, whether or not things like drop boxes are considered legal or not. Things like, Scott Walker’s, you know, legacy of ten, you know, the the elimination of many of the collective bargaining rights of public employees. That’s going to be perhaps up again. Virtually every single public policy issue, you know, might ultimately come before this court.

And even though Republicans have this super majority in the legislature, now there’s this new power center, and I can’t tell you how disorienting that is for them, which is really kind of the backstory. For why they would consider something as reckless as removing a justice and basically undoing an election. They couldn’t help themselves, but we’ll see where we go, but but you’re right. It is an absolutely fascinating question. And I say that as somebody that’s watched Wisconsin politics become very, very partisan was part of that for a very long time.

I know many of these players and to watch how this has played out, even knowing everything that’s happened has been really extraordinary. I have tell you?

These years have to range the Republican Party in ways that still completely shock me. Is fascinating, but it’s stunning. They’re not thinking straight as you just described. They can’t accept the plate shifting, you know, with their foundation of power. And to try to impeach her over this is it’s such a joke, but they are driven to desperation.

And it is all about holding power. I mean, that’s that’s what’s so interesting about what’s going on in the Congress is that what Kevin McCarthy is doing is only about keeping his seat because in doing what he must do to keep his seat, he will help Republicans lose the house. No one’s thinking straight.

I mean, so let’s I mean, let’s go back to Joe Biden, you know, being thrown a lifeline. Well, you know, we were just talking about the David Ignacious column, in all the doubts about Joe Biden. What we know is going to happen is if, you know, once the spotlight goes on, Democrats are going to rally around Joe Biden. And swing voters are going to see what a clown show this is because trust me, James Comer, chairman of the House Oversight Committee is not ready for prime time. This guy has been a, you know, a mess You know, he makes allegations.

He backs off. He’s challenged on them. He can’t support them. He he loses whistle blowers. I mean, it is a joke.

I think that the real danger for Republicans is that people start to pay attention. Democrats become engaged rally around. And then the normies begin to think You guys are not serious. And the fact that they’re doing this right on the cusp of shutting down the government will add to this sense that they are just not serious that they’re reckless and they’re extreme. And this is the strongest weapon right now that the Democrats have going for them.

It’ll be pretty potent for a while because as you say, a Goldman Sachs is predicting a two to three week shutdown. If that’s happening, right as this inquiry is launched in multiple committees with multiple goofball Chairman going all over TV and having to answer questions about evidence. I mean, I’m not saying it’s gonna help the Democrats long term all the way to next November, but Republican donors are probably literally on the phone with Kevin McCarthy begging him. To stop this. You combine launching in an inquiry without a house resolution vote.

And at the same time, that you’re shutting the government down. They can’t pass the defense bill today. They can’t pass the rule. It is around the clock chaos. It’s everything Republicans who want to project the majority don’t want.

It is a recipe for disaster. But the in in McCarthy’s view, it’s like, this is what we have to do to survive the week.

Well, but meanwhile, Donald Trump did get the coveted of Vladimir Putin endorsement. You saw that. Right? I said, I hear you. He read you this account.

Vladimir Putin could barely contain his excitement Tuesday, while discussing Donald Trump, telling a forum in Vladivostok that the criminal cases against the former president are good for Russia and the Kremlin took delight in Trump’s claim that he had swiftly forced an end to Moscow’s war against Ukraine. Quote, as for the persecution of Trump, for us, what is happening in these conditions in my opinion is good because it shows the whole rottenness of the American political system, which cannot claim to teach others about democracy. Putin said echoing the former American president’s oft repeated claim that quote, what’s happening with Trump is a execution of a political rival for political motives. Because, of course,

What’s so interesting though is this is the kind of thing Putin I don’t think would have done before he really needs Trump to win a second term. And he is so weakened and in such a state of chaos, this saying the quiet part out loud was not Putin and ask in the past. So this is an interesting, like, I he’s a disoriented in Wisconsin Republicans right now because that’s I was shocked. He said it.

I see. I I thought it was kind of inevitable because the one thing that Vladimir Putin has an instinct for is he knows how to play Donald Trump. He knows that if he kisses up to Donald Trump and throws out stuff like this, that Donald Trump will be pathetically grateful to him. He plays Donald Trump like Aziah Lynn.

Oh, I understand, but then it becomes a TNCA next year.

If they do it, Yeah.

Right. If if they’re smart enough to use it.

Think about the DNC ads. I mean, imagine, you know, sitting around like, which one do we go with? Do we go with the criminal indictments? Do we go with Republicans who want to defund the the FBI or the DOJ? Do we go with the, Republicans who are blocking military promotions, or abandoning Ukraine or shutting down me?

Which one do you go in? I, you know, one would hope, but can you explain, by the way, what, like, I’ve asked this question of so many people, but I figured you might actually know. What is with Chuck Schumer? Why does he let Tommy Tuberville get away with the shit with the military? And number two, what’s with, Chuck Schumer not having hearings about Jared Kushner or Ivanka?

Mean, why not?

I do agree with this idea that senate Democrats should be probing the Saudi Arabia deal that Jared Kushner got on the way out of the White House.

What do they do all day?

Exactly. As well as the fact that they left before the two billion dollar deal, they left the house with seven hundred and sixty million that they earned while not having salaries, or they took in

while not having salary. So Well, like the average American. Yeah.

There should be some kind of hearings about the kleptocracy that Trump was running in his term in office. While the house is looking at Hunter Biden. There’s no question in my mind. You and I have talked about humor before. He is very active at hiding and taking no heat.

He’s not coming to the senate floor and making cable headlines and sound bite about Tuberville, and he’s not getting into an argument about it. And he tends to do this. He’s he’s very cautious, and he kinda hides, and he tends, even when the Senate was going through, you know, a really rough stretch at the end of twenty one and the build back better and everything. He tends to sort of, you know, hide. I mean, he doesn’t wanna he knows that Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin are going after each other.

He talks to them privately, but he doesn’t pull them off the field from fighting each other. He I have so many issues with Chuck Schumer, but he’s somehow always he happy to not be a star like Pelosi, and he seems to to never take any heat, but at the same time, he’s not taking He’s not taking on the fights that the White House would really benefit from the Senate taking on right now.

Well, also, the the country would perhaps benefit from him take on, including, you know, getting the military unstuck and actually finding out whether or not we we have sold out to the Saudi government. But by the way, okay. So there was a lot of criticism of, of Joe Biden of the Biden administration for congratulating the Saudis on some deals that they made, putting this out on nine eleven. Okay. Fine.

You know, it was bad timing, but That seems to pale in comparison to on nine eleven, not saying. And what about the trumps? Continuing to do business with the Saudis. What about Donald Trump and the Kushner and all of that? I mean, why is that not and nine eleven issue.

And I’m I’m sorry. I’m gone I’m going off on a rant here.

Charlie, I’m with you. One of my pet irritations is that the man running for president a former president on the Republican Party ticket likely is for all intents and purposes to presumptive nominee, though we won’t call him that until March or April. Is on the Saudi payroll, and no one in this country seems to care.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. It’s like it seems like a relevant detail, but then But then what do we know, AB Stoddard? Once again, welcome to the Bulwark team, and thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Oh, I’m so happy to be with you. Please have me back, when other people are too busy Charlie Sykes thrilled to be on team Bulwark, and I love the pod with you. Thanks so much again.

And thank you all for listening to today’s Bulwark podcast. I’m Charlie Sykes. We will be back tomorrow, and we’ll do this all over again. The Bullbrook podcast is produced by Katie Cooper and engineered and edited by Jason Brown.