How Do You Bring the (Fake) Real Pete Davidson to Life?

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Welcome back to the Bulwark comes to Hollywood. My is Sunny Bond, Trump culture editor at the Bulwark. And I’m very pleased to be joined today by Judah Miller. Now Judah Miller has worked on a bunch of shows that you know and love, King of the Hill, American Dad, the HBO series crashing. But his new project is pretty exciting.

So it’s it’s called buckets. It’s on peacock TV. It stars Pete Davidson playing kind of a a comic version of Pete Davidson already a pretty common figure, but it’s it’s about his life and, you know, the vagaries of being a star in the age of social media and all that stuff. It’s it’s a lot of fun. It’s really interesting And it’s really interestingly structured.

I’m excited to talk to them about how the the show came together in terms of what they are doing with tone, and playing with that sort of stuff. But again, I’m really excited to have Judah on. Thanks for being on the show today.

Yeah. Thanks for having me. I I my first question is for you. I wanna know what Bulwark goes to Hollywood means.

Well, I work at a a publication called the Bulwark. And we we’re based in DC. I actually live in Dallas, but we’re based in DC. So it’s like I’m going to Hollywood. I just speak to people.

Okay. About about the business of Hollywood. It’s a business of show, big show. It’s very exciting.

Yeah. Yeah. I love it.

Alright. So since it’s a business, show show show show. Let me let me jump right to a business of showbiz question. One of the things I found kind of interesting about Buckus is that you are your it’s it’s premiering on peacock in a binge style strategy. Right?

It’s coming out all eight episodes at lunch, which is different for you. Am I am I right? Am I looking at your bio, it looks like a lot of weekly stuff. Did that change how you guys were making the show or writing it or creating it? Or is it is it just like, well, this is how we’re doing it?

Yeah. You know, it didn’t influence the way that we made the show. Like, we didn’t really know that that’s how it was gonna get released when we were writing this. But but, I mean, I’m excited that people are able to do that. Like, I’m enjoying binging shows that are released this way.

It’s just a little for me, it feels a little weird because we worked on this so hard for so long. And then the concept that someone might consume this in, like, a day or two and then move on is a little disheartening, but I but I’m also just happy for people to enjoy this in any way that they wanna enjoy this. And I think binging something can be really fun too. But that being said, like, we definitely didn’t craft this to, you know, lay it out in a way that encourage people to binge.

Yeah. I mean, it it’s it’s interesting. I a friend of mine who works on or used to work on community. Chris McKenna. He says, hi.

I love Chris McKenna. He’s the best.

He he he talked about when I when I talked to him on the show, he talked about the the way that they used to be able to follow reactions to community as it was kind of coming out in real time, they would they’d watch it and they’d they’d be able to kind of not not necessarily craft story lines, but see what was working, see what wasn’t. It was like a real time Twitter is real time sounding board. I mean, have you have you used that on your shows in the past? I mean, obviously, it’s not a thing that really works in animation as much because, you know,

everything is

done a year ahead of time almost or or or on HBO, we’re here. But, I mean, I’m curious if that’s a that’s a thing that you would

do as well. I’d like to say that I have, but I don’t I don’t actually have a memory of, like, tuning a show towards an audience’s appetite. You know, I think that, like, from my experience, it’s always like you have, like, a sense in the room and, like, who you’re creating with of, like, what interests you the most. But But yeah. I mean, may maybe that’s a that’s a pretty that’s a pretty good thing to, like, to be able to, like, in real time, like, calibrate your show.

I that seems like like for community, that’s like I could see how that that may be, like, factored in and, like, that’s part of what made that show so kind of fun and interesting. Yeah. I’m not here to talk about community. I’m

here now. About Bubba’s. Absolutely not. Let’s talk about Bubba’s. So I I was I was trying to describe Bubba’s to a friend who who’s excited to watch show because he he’s a big Pete Davidson fan.

He’s like, what how would you describe it? And I was like, well, it’s it’s kind of like it’s a little bit like curve your enthusiasm, but a little a little more surreal than that in places. But not also not really like that. It’s it’s more of almost a standards that come, but not really that either. How would you describe it?

Well,

I mean, I think

Yeah. It’s it’s I love that it’s hard to describe. Like somebody the biggest compliment I feel like I got on this was a friend of mine watched the pilot and said that they felt like they’d never seen something like this before. And I was like, man, that’s incredible in this world where there’s so many amazing shows and so many things have been done to have anything that feels like remotely fresh in this in this over saturated world that we live in is feels like a huge accomplishment, but I would describe bupcus as a fever absurd fever dream of what it feels like to be in Pete Davidson’s orbit. You know, and when we first started mapping out, like, wanting to develop this show, you know, we we realized that there was no concept that we could come up with that would rival the comedy that comes from just being around Pete because he seems to have, like, an endlessly absurd and escalating life.

And it’s like, I don’t think that there’s any, like, concept or fictitious situation that we can come up with that would be as fun or or ripe for comedy as Pete’s actual day to day as that’s.

And that that kind of plays into the show. I mean, he’s literally googling himself, driving himself crazy. Yeah. Well, is is that is that what he does in real life? Does he sit there Ron DeSantis?

Like

No. I mean He he actually has, like, a very, like, healthy. Like, he he has a foot bone right now. So Pete doesn’t, like, have the ability. He’s, like, off social media, so he’s, like, not it’s it’s actually, like, I I find it very aspirational.

Like like, they they live in a world where you’re not able to look anything up at any time on your phone. But But, you know, like, there is, like, a huge disconnect between Pete’s public persona and the way that people that actually know Pete or close with Pete and how his friends view him. So that was like a very big theme that we’re interested in exploring this first season on buckets. And I I think it’s kind of relatable to a lot of people because people have these kind of public personas that they portray through technology that’s not always exactly the same as their personal lives.

Yeah. I mean, is there was there any worry while you guys were writing this about playing into some of those? Free conception of of Pete and and and playing them up or or, you know, there’s a disclaimer at the start of every so that says, this is not you know, these are based on some real people, but it’s fictional and there’s dramatic stuff. I assume

Ray responsible. Keep. That’s Stacy keeps you.

It’s it’s oh, that is the okay. It was it’s such a great voice. I was trying to — Yeah.

It was cool. — place it.

What so any was there any concern there just in terms of, you know, how his perception plays in the real world and and amping that up? Or

I mean, you know, Pete is someone that is very fearless in his comedy. I think that’s what fans of Pete appreciate about him is that there’s like unfiltered kind of authenticity to who he is. And, you know, he really wanted to write this show fearlessly. And it’s it’s always incredible to collaborate and be creative with someone that is that open to explore intimate aspects of their lives, to saturize, you know, thoughts about who he is, even if it’s not true, he’s he’s just totally fearless to to do anything. I think he that comes a that sense of energy to do anything and allow the show to do and be anything without concern for what people might take away from it is part of what makes this show so special.

You

mentioned Stacey Keetch, and that’s just like I mean, again, like, I it was it was a voice I recognized, couldn’t quite place and is is perfect. But this the show has I I mean, I could I could list twenty names.

Oh, twenty

boldface names just as, you know, quick guess shots Ray Romano, Charlie Sykes, all sorts of people. Of course, Joe Pesci is in this. They’ve been great Joe Pesci. Bobby kind of taco. I mean, it’s just

it’s

it’s amazing. How how did you

guy I how did you wrangle such a good cast? I don’t you know what? It’s it’s I give it it’s purely Pete. I mean, my Pete has, you know, he’s a dreamer. He has big expectations about who he would like to cast.

And, you know, you say you wanna have Joe Pache come out of retirement. To play his grandfather on this peacock series and people say it’s impossible. And then the next thing you know, we’re meeting with Joe Pesci and having serious conversations about having him join our series. It’s I think a lot of it is you know, a lot some of it is people that Pete knows. Between Pete and Lauren Michaels, there’s an extremely big reach that we can go for some very, like, amazing talent, but there’s also I think people responded to the material.

People Joe and Pete formed like a real type of almost like grandfatherly type of relationship with Pete to mentor him that was incredible that to witness during the production of the show, that even exceeds, like, what you see in the series. I think Pete and Joe actually have a lot in common and really connected, and and that’s and I think I think how we were able to do the impossible and and get him to be a part of this show, but it really is a surreal feeling and it’s like very humbling, you know, as a writer to, you know, have people like Brad Garrett and Eddy Falco and Ray Romano elevate what we’re doing and and add such nuance to to sometimes some really absurd things that we put into the show.

Well, I can you could you highlight an example of something that that one of them brought to the the the show that you weren’t affecting something, you know, that was was kind of surprising. I, like, I I will say when I was watching, the one the performance that jumped out at me the most was Ray Romano. Just as as the well, I don’t wanna spoil it, everybody, but a a

It’s like seeing Ray in a world. Favorite ingredient. Yeah. It’s like it’s a different, like, it’s a different shade of rain. Right.

You know what you’ve seen, but it’s like and and again, like, it’s like to be for him to sort of fearlessly trust that we were doing something that wasn’t just insane was incredible, you know. But I guess, like, to me, the big the most surprising contribution to the show is like Joe Pesci’s take on this character you know, he is such a tough character and he’s so, you know, unwilling to vacate, eat in anyway and and challenging of Pete in a way that was, I think, harder than we necessarily initially envisioned it. But it provided so much to the show. And he is such a sense of love and support and mentorship of Pete that comes through despite being so critical of Pete. But I mean, like, you know, someone like Joe Pesci is he’s such an iconic performer and he he challenges the scripts and challenges us as much as he’s his character’s challenging Pete So it’s like he really he really had a huge impact on the show creatively.

Yeah. I mean, you really get that sense of grandfatherly disappointment at times, which is, I mean, it’s a, you mean, Joe Patrick, great actor. You can’t. I

mean, one of the best actors. Yeah. It’s like it’s like you just wanna, like, you don’t want to you wanna do right by him as you do with all these actors, but, like, you know, and he’s he’s kind of he’s inspecting and looking into every inch of every line, you know, and and finding the continuity of character there. And it’s and then when you layer in that our show, takes absurdist turns that badens things. It’s very complicated, you know, where your lines are.

But it’s like but we were able to find that, I think, with him. But, man, like, the the level of depth and emotional poignancy that we’re getting from people like Eddy Falco and Jopeshi, and Brad Garrett is just an incredible

Yeah.

On on Bali, I mean, like, it’s it’s insane.

Yeah. I kind of Bali is great in this and everything. I mean, again, the cast here is just act. I wanna highlight one one actor who maybe maybe some folks aren’t, but Simon Rex. Simon Rex’ episode as as a crispy as a I am.

Florida. Florida diamond dealer slash party, go or slash well, whatever

It’s a he’s a he’s a he’s not described hot boy. Hot boy style is how he would say. But But

he’s he’s fantastic. I mean, I you know,

he’s such a good actor. Yeah. I mean, like, he’s, like, again, like, when does he someone that Pete knows. And so we were able to get him to come in and, like, yeah. I mean, like, it’s like you watch, you know, Red Rocket and you’re like, man, this guy’s amazing actor.

And to have him come in and and play such a heightened, like, absurd persona and bring such a kind of odd level of nuance to to something that’s so kind of big too. It’s just amazing. It was like it Each of our episodes has its own kind of distinct vibe. And, like, you know, it’s like what Simon Rex brings that episode is, like, unlike any of our other episodes in a way. So it’s, like, we like that the show continually keeps kind of shifting in tone and And and that’s I think that’s one of the benefits of getting someone like Simon Rex to come in and and play a character like that.

Yeah. I think that’s is that the fourth episode? Of the the That’s the fourth episode. Yeah. Episode.

I I Will Saletan, for me personally, that’s where the whole show kind of clicks. Because it is it’s very different in vibe. It’s very different in style, and it’s like, okay, I kind I see what they’re doing here. They’re going for something a little different each each time out, and it works. It works.

Let me let me talk about writing then. So, you know, how did you guys write this show? Was it did you sit down with Pete and you were like, well, what do we what do we wanna what do you want to tell? What story do you want to tell? Or is it did you sit down and map out?

Like, here’s where we how we get from point a? To point b at the end of the the season.

Yeah. I mean, like, it’s a little bit of both, but it’s like all the episodes would originate from Pete, talking about different aspects of Pete’s life that we were interested in exploring And then looking at, like, the way that those separate kind of stand alone episodes fit within a larger arc for his character over the course of a season. But in a way, we kind of embraced a very erratic nature of storytelling because it’s like we didn’t want it to be overly mapped out or beautifully designed. Like, I think that, like, the idea that we’re Like, I the idea that no one might expect that our second episode is gonna take the turn that it takes off of the pilot was something that we embraced. But it was really that, like, I don’t know if you even know if you’ve seen that episode or not, but, like, it it it informed some it gave so much context.

To Pete in his adult life and the and the dynamic that he has with his mom and his grandfather, it it seems like, that we view that very much as an origin story for his character. So it, like, it felt important to us that that happened at the early part of the season. And then, yeah, I think that, like, once you get into the latter part of the season, there’s, like, an incredible thrust into our finale. But But it’s like like every show, like you, you know, you break episodes that, you know, sometimes you’ll break an episode with the arc overall season arc in mind, and sometimes you just have an idea for an episode that it that plays your character, then you just find where it fits within that arc.

Yeah. Yeah. So for the record, I I have watched I watched all the episodes now. I binged them. Because I’m at home with COVID locked in my bedroom.

It was very easy. It was very just good to get through them all. But so I watched it as I think a lot of people probably will, which is kind of all at once. And I I think it’s I think it’s good for the show too because I do think like I said, it it once you kind of realize what’s happening and get into the rhythm of it, it works I think it works better as a

like, the, like, the, like, the variety of episodes — Yeah. — sort of get with the flow — Yeah. — of choppy waters of those. Yeah.

Chalby

Waters makes it sound bad. It’s not

who I know. It’s not Chalby Waters. It’s it’s smooth sailing. It’s the smooth sailing of the show. But, you

know, you hit the peaks and swells. It’s a swab. I don’t know. I don’t I’m not a voter.

No. I I honestly like, I it’s it’s been very gratifying to talk to people that have seen the show in, like, have people respond so fusively up to the shifting tone because it’s one of those things where you go, like, I don’t know if people are like, if people like something to be of one tone, but, like, this is so erratic and constantly shifting. But it’s nice to see that people get it and and still appreciate it even though it is always changing.

So the the the show was very concerned with Pete’s personal life, of course, is fictionalized version of his personal life, but also I, you know, I assume a a fictionalized version of his professional life as well. And One of there’s a there’s a great there’s a great episode where he goes up to Canada just selling the the stage here for listeners. He goes up to Canada to shoot some footage for a Brad Pitt movie. And I I won’t spoil it, but it’s it’s it is one of the one of the weirder aspects of modern filmmaking where he is on a sound stage with a director on an iPad kind of telling him what to do remotely and an a d and there’s it just is is is such a weird way to think about the filming of a of a film — Yeah. — for people.

I mean, I’m I’m curious if you’ve gotten any response from people who don’t understand that this is how a lot of these movies

were made now? Yeah. I mean, like, I I am proud of that episode because I feel like it captures the isolation. And Pete is sort of like almost like in some parts, like, he gets treated almost like a object. Like, it’s like that sort of floating between different spaces.

And you know, I think that, like, there’s a glamorous idea of what it might be, like, to be in a movie, but then there’s the reality of what it actually is like you know, repeat to go to Canada during the holidays and be isolated like that. It’s, you know, it’s very different than what the outside perspective might be. And I think it plays into that major theme that we are exploring the whole season, which is the disparity between the public image and persona of who Pete Davidson and what his life is like, and the

reality of of what it is. There’s a great musical cue in that episode as well from Red William for a dream. Is that I’m just curious if there was any, like, trouble getting the rights to that, would they or was that just we’re we’re using this?

You know, it’s funny because I think that the one that that you might have seen a cut that had some

Oh, September.

So it’s a track. Yeah. But

it will make No. But recurring

music is, like, unbelievable. Yeah. That’s an amazing score.

Never never mind then. The the one the one big the one big cameo that I I wasn’t gonna spoil, but then I saw it in the trailer so I guess I can. Is Art the clown. Art the how did how is is Pete Davidson a big a terrifying fan? Was that how did that

Pete is a big terrifying fan? And he introduced me to the Terra Fire franchise. And it is I it’s again, like, I described this show as a absurd fever dream of what it’s like to be in Pete’s life and, like, there’s nothing more fever dream like than going to work and and having Art the Crown be there. And we’ll be standing by a trailer and having a conversation with Art the Crown in full makeup But it’s like, yeah, it it was this this so much of the casting and so many elements of this show are a collection of Pete’s, like, favorite actors that are involved in some of his favorite projects. It’s like a it’s like a collection of all of his favorite things.

And so I think to, like, have Art the clown be a part of this show in this world is is like the part of the fever dream of of Pete Davidson. But yeah. I mean, that was that was he’s a big fan, and and he just he reached out and Yeah. Next thing, you know, we got Art the clown. Scaring everyone on set.

I’m just glad that Pete Davidson is in the terrifying universe now officially in the terrifying cinematic universe.

Oh, yeah. For sure.

I always like to close these episodes, these shows by asking if there’s anything I should have asked. If you think there’s anything people should know about the show about the the making of the show? What’s going on in the business of Hollywood right now? Anything anything at all?

Man, I just like I just am so excited for people to come and see the show and and hopefully be surprised by the show doing and being things that maybe they might not expect it to be. Like, I I really I’m we’re just also proud of, like, what we’ve made and the hard work we put into it. And and we’re excited for people to binge it in a day or two and then move on in their life.

What do you is do you think what are what are the hopes for season number two? I mean, I assume you guys hope for for a second season here or or maybe not? Is this a one and done? What do you think? Oh,

I mean, I mean, I I definitely hope that for season two because we just have so much fun making this together. But, like, Right now, we’ve been so focused on season one that we’re just really excited for people to see season one and and hopefully enjoy it enough that we can that we get to make more.

Alright. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Judah. I really appreciate it. My name is Sunny Bunch. I’m culture editor at The Bulwark.

And I’ll be back next week with another episode of The Bulwark Coast Hollywood. We’ll see you guys on.

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