Team Trump is trying to intimidate the opposition. Stop showing them your fear. Plus, Gaetz moves from AG nominee to low-rent MAGA cable channel host, and RT's girlfriend, Tulsi, could have access to the identities of our informants in Russia if she is confirmed. Meanwhile, as Dems plot a way forward, they need to be more clear about calling out the heroes and the villains: When you're trying to be everything to everyone, you're nothing.
Adam Kinzinger and Rep. Pat Ryan join Tim Miller.
show notes
Kinzinger's Substack response to Trump's jail threat
Jake Tapper's 2017 interview with Tulsi Gabbard after her meeting with Assad
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Thank you Adam Kinzinger for giving me some hope, and at least for a few minutes getting me out of my Yeats-ian despair. "And what rough beast is this, Its hour come round at last, Now slouches toward Bethlehem to be born."
Absolutely, these interviewers let the MAGAts get away with the lies they tell. What is that?
My question: being in the position we're in, with the cabinet picks that have been nominated, how can America respond? More specifically, under Trump, is there a way to respond? Is it possible to weather the storm? Or is it hopeless?
We know the 'what'. We are figuring out the 'why'. But it's the 'how' of defending / fighting back against the regime of which I'm ignorant.
The only way to solve the health care crisis is the Bernie way. Medicare for All is the solution. Health Care is a human right; it is the responsibility of the Government to promote the general welfare. If it stays in the Free Market it will never be fair. We don't take out insurance policies for police coverage or fire protection - that would be more like protectionism. So as long as the profit motive is guiding idea for health care we shall not make any real fair progress. Think of all those advertising, stock, and CEO dollars going into serving Health Care?
Our current healthcare regime has little to do with "the free market". We already have socialized medicine - albeit most of it privately socialized through insurance companies. In order to have a real market, we would need to empower patients to make their own healthcare decisions by giving them transparent information about quality and prices. Our current system essentially prohibits the availability of such information. As a health economist, I am forbidden by my data use agreements from doing research on such things.
The essence of Obamacare is to empower payers (primarily private insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid) against both patients and providers. The anger we are seeing in the wake of the murder of the UHC CEO is what happens when you empower payers.
When one is confronted health care issue it is hard to research the best choice for treatment. Just look at the bogus Manage Care commercials. Insurance companies have a profit motive monies of which take away from monies for care. I have had private and Medicare. I much prefer Medicare which is the only real choice I have ever had.
You all three are saying important things. It would be SO MUCH easier to listen to if you minimized the filler language: like, you know, I mean, sort of like, etc. 😕 Pleeeeaaassssse.
Kamala tried the Joyful Warrior- so she was fighting for the ideas.
Thanks for Pat Ryan, Tim. I knew nothing about him. I loved that he thinks he won by being independent of the Dem party establishment. I hope the leadership of the Dem party going forward learns from him.
But I disagree with him about his "bad apples" theory of what Bernie is talking about. Bad apples are not responsible for the decline of the middle class and good-paying jobs that don't require a college degree. Neoliberalism is. See Ezra Klein's podcast with historian Gary Gerstle, author of “The Rise and Fall of the Neoliberal Order [https://youtu.be/bGmzHXnRP9o?si=D--aoUqV3qhUp2rm]. This is what Bernie means when he says the system is rigged.
Dear Pat Ryan,
Crying in Texan. We are just frogs boiling in trash water.
I like Adams attitude! And when he said one should never show fear because that is what they want, to intimidate. I thought of the line from The Band's Stage Fright: " You can make it in your disguise. Just never show the fear that's in your eyes". Adam has no fear! and it is no disguise!
I'm amused that you think Trump will not put you in jail. Retribution is a goal and the champions of law and order will go along or get along. Fear is OK. Moving to a place where there is no extradition treaty is OK.
Anybody Trump puts in jail will be out on bail the next day.
Fear is NOT okay. Trump's strategy depends on fear. As long as people like Adam remain fearless and refuse to capitulate, Trump will lose. That's why all the preemptive submission is so distressing - they are handing Trump a victory he could not win in an actual fight.
It won't necessarily be Trump himself but his "flying monkeys." THEY know what to do to please The Great Eye.
I think you are crazy to talk about going on 'bro' podcasts. The key right now is Counter-Programming. I am working on a project right now with a bunch of men that I am calling "TruthTosterone." We are all elders now, but when we were the age of these toxic 'brocasters' we created program for young men and boys that has endured and grown for three decades. Now, from a place of eldership, I want to gift back to the young men of today. Stay away from the toxic swamps. It's beyond pearls before swine.
Mr. Kinzinger, I think you're very correct: it is a mockery of an administration. I hear our President-elect saying, "There's nothing important or special about our system of government: any half-wit tv personality can run it. I'll show you."
Why is Kinzinger not in the White House? Again, I refer to that other timeline where he is, and unicorns and rainbows bedazzle the sky. I want that timeline for Christmas.
Loved Kinzinger. He is such a tremendous leader.
Maybe I missed it, but I have been sort of miffed that in all of these conversations about what the Dems got wrong in 2024, I don’t recall hearing any Democrat outline (or Bulwark contributor?) outline the numerous Biden Admin policy errors. Bad policy leads to bad outcomes which leads to bad politics. It seems pretty easy math to me. What were the policy mistakes?
• The American Rescue Plan which did not on its own cause inflation but made it worse probably by 3%-4%. That followed by the pursuit of BBB instead of fiscal policy that worked in tandem the Fed’s monetary policy to stem inflation. The Fed was the sole body trying to curb inflation which meant more rate hikes and a more difficult economic environment. Can Dems simply know acknowledge the ARP was a mistake and massive gov’t spending is not the way to economic growth?
• Getting rid of Remain in Mexico with nothing to take it’s place.
• Abandoning Afghanistan (Biden’s general warned against it) and reversing the Max Pressure campaign on Iran
• Keeping Trump’s tariffs
• Illegal student loan forgiveness
These were major policy errors which led to bad outcomes and a bad political environment for Dems. What am I missing? I’m Ron Burgundy?
You missed Ukraine. Biden kept a leash on the Ukrainians that kept them from gaining a decisive victory, making the war there look like another "endless" conflict - and he never explained or defended his Ukraine policy/strategy to voters. So, even though two-thirds of Americans support Ukraine, Biden failed to turn this popular issue into a political winner for his party.
Speaking of failure to communicate, Biden also did not capitalize on his infrastructure initiatives by talking them up. He and his team just seemed to think that good policy should speak for itself. Their reticence let Republicans fill the vacuum with their own talking points, which went unrefuted.
I needed Adam Kinzinger today. He gave me a sense that we can survive this and the work is worth doing. I’ve been pretty doom driven and burn it all down. Definitely have been feeling JVL. Adam was a good counter to those feelings.
How long do you have to accept a pardon? Is there is a lot a paperwork to complete?
Yes, you can accept or reject a pardon offer. But how quickly must you respond to the offer?
Can you just keep it in your backpocket until you need it?
I am not been able to find the answer.
For a guy that talks so much about "retribution" with a focus on people such as the January 6 Committee, whom Trump claims violated the law....yet he is quiet when it comes to finding "retribution" on these alleged "assassins" - one in Butler, PA, the other in Florida. Almost as though...
Tim, your new format (doubleshots?) is very much appreciated. I enjoy "meeting" the many congressional representatives you have hosted. Listening to them speak about their jobs, what worked for them in their campaign, and their answers to the excellent questions you pose is stellar work on your part.
I'll second this. Lots of people are engaging in macro punditry on why Democrats lost, but Tim is drilling down to the micro level and talking with people about what happened in their states or in particular elections.
Yay Angie Craig call out!
Maybe Adam should been on earlier. He seemed to make Tim happier. lol
What AK says at ~3:00 is something I noticed about authoritarians decades before MAGA. They instinctively learn how to avoid giving straight answers, to make baseless claims and pretend that the burden of proof is always on their opponent. That's because they are always speaking to their "base," not their opponent. A "base" that craves comforting lies and fears the truth.
Someone should send this to the Dems in Congress who are now advocating for Biden to pardon Trump. It’s like they got the message that people just want them to fight for things, yeeeees! And the fight they’re choosing is…nooooooooo.
There needs to be a way for all of us to give support to victims of frivolous lawsuits…a go fund me!
Those mentioned in the ethic’s report were not GIRLFRIENDS!
Tim, I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you. That’s all. Merry Christmas, bud.
P. S. Thom Tillis is not a good man.
Cloak room! I love it!
I agree that America will not stand for trump abusing citizens with the DOJ. And yes…I also ask myself, “How did we do this.” This battle was lost but we are mobilized now…through grass roots!
dems should fight in a way that when they know they're ultimately going to lose -- that it's more about values than the fight. Like "This tax cut bill BETRAYS avg working americans because 99% of it goes to people that are already rich get even more money, you are being betrayed... but we don't have the votes to kill it." It should always firstly be about working class americans -- what i mean is, align with the biggest betrayed group ... not the most narrow special interest folks.
This show lifted me up. Two smart brave men who walk their talk. Pat Ryan is a revelation who deserves a lot of attention. Bring him back. Also, outro music- nailed it again!
Fwiw, breaking news: Mark Zuckerberg just donated $1 million to Trump’s Inauguration Fund. Interpret that however your wish.
Remember his last inauguration and how much money was unaccounted for.
Everybody is so busy bending their knee to the new Dictator - the fear is almost palpable. But I must say I am truly shocked at how quickly they all started genuflecting. Inauguration Fund, eh? Well, it will be interesting to see what performers will give up all integrity and get down in the mud with Trump and the boys .....
i interpret it as to take your facebook acct and dump it.
In honor of Rep. Pat Ryan, here is the f*cking Apple Music Playlist. Hope everything is having a good week.
https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/bulwark-pod-songs/pl.u-0embfxV15e
Why do you, Adam, consider Lindsey Graham and the others good people if they are willing to knowingly vote in a possible Russian asset as DNI?
Great interviews. There are a lot of good, talented, normal Democratic politicians, like Pat Ryan and we need to get them out front talking more. This is what James Carville said on his recent podcast, too. The contrast between the Democrats and the Republicans is shocking. Every time the Republicans talk, they sound crazy and the Dems sound rational and good. It’s insane that we ended up here again with the orange gas bag.
Yes! This was a great interview ! It gives me a lot of hope. The Democrats are going to be fine! He had so much valuable insight about why he won and I agree with everything he said. And he could talk like a normal person.
Pat Ryan and so many other democrats that beat Kamala in their district seem to forget that Elon Musk and Autocracy Inc targeted Kamala with AI-generated and false advertising that he didn't face. Who ever defends the "democratic brand?" We talk more shit on ourselves than anyone else. Who already improved healthcare? We did. Who wanted a public option when the Bulwark team was working for the McConnell's "Obama a 1 term president camp?" Democrats. Who went after price gouging? Biden, Harris, Lina Khan - DEMOCRATS. COVID stimulus during both Trump and Biden administrations - Written and passed by Democrats.
We have a good brand, we just have cowardly representatives and brand managers.
All of this just demonstrates that a party's brand does not rest on policy successes.
Agreed. It's about the messengers, audience, and tools of distribution. I think we underestimate the power of the Firehose of Falsehood and targeted ads on social, specifically TikTok and X.
40% of adults get their news from influencers or social. This is more likely among young people, those making under 50k, and w/o a college degree. We know Russia was paying some influencers. TikTok is flooded with AI fakes spouting off falsehoods. These get posted and reposted between X and TT bot accounts that hit some niche. Then your friends show you different deep fake pro Trump accounts.
I live in LA and a friend in my apartment complex..he is a non college educated successful entrepreneur. He said he voted Obama, Hillary, Biden, then Trump because illegal immigrants were getting $1800 stimulus checks after claiming asylum. He showed me a series of deep fake AI posts and didn't believe it was fake. How do you message effectively against that? That's rhetorical, I'm just ranting. Thanks for commenting on my post!
I have as much faith in the pardon polls as I do for the election polls, which is absolutely none.
For the record, the Trump 1.0 pardons got even lower polling scores than the Hunter pardon so 🤷♀️. And the potential Jan 6 pardons scored higher approvals than both. So, yeah, these polls, and Americans right now, are ridiculous and unserious.
Pat's great. He's the same guy whether he's on TV, the Bulwark podcast, or at our local senior center. Like Mr. Kinzinger, he genuinely cares about us regular folks.
I wish folks like Ryan would articulate what they mean when they say fight. Fight how? People say Trump fights but as far as I can see that means yapping a lot. People say AOC fights. She also talks a lot (no shade on her, by the way). Is that fighting?
I think there is conflation of bullying with fighting. Bullies tend to win because they are relentless, repetitive, and inexhaustible in their quest to dominate. That is seen as fighting when it's really bullying.
Before Trump, that was how Republicans "fought". The essence of Trumpism is rejection of civility, on the theory that you have to fight dirty to win. Leftists have always fought dirty because they agree with Trump.
So Pat was discussing the power company/monopoly with the billing fail that ruined customers finances and is taking a long legal battle to repair. Who went to jail? Until white collar crime is given prison sentences similar to inner city crack dealers there is no rule of law that I can believe in.
Let's see what Ryan does when the rubber hits the road.
I get not wanting to be in an echo chamber like Bluesky (I do miss the right wing nutjobs a bit tbh,) but Elmo is just a pure trash human, and no way do I want to support him in any way shape or form.
I nominate Pat Ryan to go on the bro podcast. :)
So happy Pat is my rep! Such an awesome dude!
Adam K has such integrity. I always feel inspired (and grateful) after hearing his perspective. Thank you!!
Andrew Egger wrote this morning that Boebert also said, “You know, they’re asking for their preemptive pardon. So it kind of sounds suspect and guilty" WTH!! Nobody is ASKING for pardons! These people make my blood boil.
Adam, history will elevate you epically as one of the heroes of these dark fascist times.
Remember that half the people are with you, Liz, Nancy, Hillary, President Obama, etc - all of America’s best who are on “Trumpler’s list..”
The other half of America and the MAGA GOP are spineless suck ups, stupid morons or lying fascists.
Thank you for your service.🙏🏽🙏🏿🙏
Stay strong.
Love that about Adam, rather than kiss Trump’s ass as almost all Republicans do he tells Trump and his quislings to kiss his! You go brother.