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Transcript
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SPEAKER 2
Hi, I'm Bill Crystal. Welcome to Bulwark Sunday Live, also watchable when it's not live shortly afterwards on YouTube. But now live on Substack. I'm very pleased to be joined by Tom Malinowski, contributor to The Bulwark, beginning with the most important biographical But very senior official in both the Clinton and Obama administration's National Security Council, State Department,
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Senate-confirmed Assistant Secretary of State for Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor. Is that the right name? That division, which Trump is closing down, already has closed down. I don't know. Yeah. In the Obama second term, a member of Congress then for two terms. Very unusual experience, actually, to have high-level experience in the executive and legislative branches,
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kind of the Dick Cheney of our day, you know? I think of it that way. I guess he went in the opposite direction, though, legislature than executive. Anyway, Tom has followed Trump's foreign policy very closely, followed the trip to the Middle East that just ended Friday closely,

Bulwark on Sunday with Bill Kristol

A recording from The Bulwark's live video
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Bill Kristol and Tom Malinowski dig into the Qatar jet and UAE crypto cash and suggest it may not be a bribe but a shakedown linked to Trump’s actions on AI chip restrictions.

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Discussion about this video

User's avatar
Margaret Fisher SF Bay Area's avatar

A relief to hear Mr. Malinowski’s knowledge and understanding of this insanity.

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Leanne McIntire's avatar

Trump will never get tough on Putin. In my opinion there will be no deal. He has his agenda and will stay with it.

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Lynn Misheff's avatar

Brilliant, thoughtful, informative. More please...

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Tony Wagoner's avatar

Excellent presentational style and fine clarifications from Mr. Malinowski

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Casey S's avatar

A day later, turns out Tom was right on the money.

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Carol E Smith's avatar

This was a great listen! Tom Malinowski, thank you for your ease of manner... great explanations throughout!

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Lisi from Europe's avatar

Great (and depressing, as always) conversation. Thank you!

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Emily M.'s avatar

Thank you for explaining everything so clearly.

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Arugula's avatar

Excellent podcast. Regarding the Biden executive order on AI that had bipartisan support, and that Trump has now jettisoned so that the UAE can obtain specialized microchips: is there a chance of introducing legislation to limit the sale of AI components, along the lines of the Biden executive order? It is troubling that sensitive technologies and components can be sold the regimes that likely will share that know-how with China.

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Jayne Docherty's avatar

Rubio is also the guy who is deporting students for exercising free speech rights. Please stop sane washing him. He is horrible

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Fiona Hawke's avatar

That was a little deflating but thank you Bill and Tom, interesting nevertheless.

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loix's avatar

I hope Mr. Malinowski runs again and unseats Thomas Kean Jr.!

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ME's avatar

The guy in the tank held the cards!

The guy trying to stop him held none.

That must've been very confusing to Sir, if he watched it.

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ME's avatar
May 19Edited

Good to watch, but whoa, we weren't appeasing right-wing dictatorships in Latin America! We were installing and holding up right-wing dictators and training paramilitaries with our money to do their dirty work.

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Lalla Ward's avatar

This discussion exemplified how gravitas can entertain just as much as larky laughter and ubiquitous baseball hats; I totally, completely get that there are all sorts of people to whom a podcast must appeal, an important imperative to draw in young potential voters and engage them in ways to which they can ‘relate’, to avoid the dread ‘elitist’ name-calling. What I love about the Bulwark is that it does all of that, and can make serious, intellectual, rational, calm discourse engage at least some of us equally well - a great achievement. This conversation won’t appeal to those who need a lighter, more laughter-filled content, but oh how I do hope that some for whom that is indeed a preference will give this other way of going about things as much time as I am happy to give to the laughter; we can all do both, can’t we? Good on the Bulwark for finding anything at all to laugh at in these dire times. And good on them too for not shying away from seriousness.

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Ann P's avatar

Excellent discussion, but scary. Please do whatever you guys can to get the sensible people in Congress to start introducing and pushing appropriate legislation to stop the insanity, even if they know it won’t ultimately pass, it needs to be worked on. We absolutely must show the world we are not 100% corrupt and immoral. I’ve never been so ashamed in my life to be an American.

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Lalla Ward's avatar

You say, obviously rightly, that the development of AI “should be led by democracies that have safeguards, that respect privacy, that are transparent, that have legislatures, that hold hearings when things go too far”. Not the USA, then.

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Jayne Docherty's avatar

My thought exactly

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Suzanne Cully's avatar

I dunno. Our legislature in New Mexico is pretty good at fighting the things that go too far. Last I looked we were still part of the US.

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Mary Quader's avatar

Excellent and great discussion I wish I could get all my lib friends to come and listen to these excellent discussions. Really nuanced and leave corporate media. That likes to talk about Biden and Sean Diddy Combs.

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karen olmsted's avatar

Well worth the wait. Wonderful discussion. Thank you so much.

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Lori P's avatar

We are not “that” country anymore either.

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Judith Hofeditz's avatar

Excellent discussion, I learned a lot!

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DonnaD's avatar

Why was Elon Musk present at Trump's UAE trip?

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Ann P's avatar

Yes, I thought Musk wanted to control AI himself. I can’t imagine him agreeing to sharing that control with of all things a foreign country. Musk loves money, but he does seem to love power even more.

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DonnaD's avatar

I did wonder why, if the Qartaris had been trying to sell the plane for the past five years, why would they all of a sudden be willing to give it away for free. Had not considered Tom's suspicion that there may have been a 'shake down' component to the transaction.

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Robert J Danolfo's avatar

Bill and Tom that was a fascinating discussion. I learned an incredible amount of things I was unaware of. It is really nice to know there are people like Tom with character, integrity and dignity. Also, a person with the background and experience who is competent to illuminate the consequences of our collective decisions with regards to our nation. Although I'm extremely unqualified, I would say in regards to the yearly report on other nation states, we should just make a report on our own country and examine our own values. We appear at this juncture I'll equipped to judge others. On the matter of what to do in congress, I see no good reason why the democrats are not attacking Jim Jordan and James Comer for their failure to do their jobs fairly as a basic American ideal.

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Paul Topping's avatar

Report Trump's shakedowns to the Dept. of Justice? Yeah, Pam Bondi will be all over that.

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Chuck Aurora's avatar

Indeed, but with the angle of persecuting the reporter.

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Carley's avatar

Thank you, very informative - good to be reminded that there are solid minds following and brainstorming about current affairs. So mystifying to see the deference Trump receives from many in positions of power - Trump didn't create and doesn't own America, it shouldn't be his to destroy.

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Sharon Pugh's avatar

Trump already said the tariffs were pay to play. That's why he doesn't get what Walmart said about raising prices because the tariffs are supposed to be paid to him. The foreign government is supposed to pay it, not Walmart.

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Kathy's avatar

Learned a lot from Tom’s insights. Thanks for having him on your pod, Bill.

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gerri caldarola's avatar

Please have Tom M on often... this is a sober very informative discussion. thanks

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gerri caldarola's avatar

Can we call that a "bribe" or a "payoff" -- not a gift.

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0:44
kind of the Dick Cheney of our day, you know? I think of it that way. I guess he went in the opposite direction, though, legislature than executive. Anyway, Tom has followed Trump's foreign policy very closely, followed the trip to the Middle East that just ended Friday closely,