In this conversation, Bill Kristol and Harvard professor Daniel Ziblatt and co-author of ‘How Democracies Die’ discuss the alarming authoritarian trends emerging during Trump's second term. They explore the rapid erosion of democratic institutions, the consolidation of power through executive orders, and the silence of civic and political elites. Drawing comparisons to historical regimes, they underscore the urgent need for institutional resistance, referencing the book ‘Ruling Oneself Out: A Theory of Collective Abdication’ to explain how democracies can collapse through elite inaction.
Bulwark+ Takes
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Bulwark+ Takes brings you bite-sized takes on the news of the day from the entire Bulwark team. This is the home to ad-free video shorts, Bulwark+ member-only livestreams, and live event archives. The news cycle doesn’t slow down, and neither do we.
Bulwark+ Takes brings you bite-sized takes on the news of the day from the entire Bulwark team. This is the home to ad-free video shorts, Bulwark+ member-only livestreams, and live event archives. The news cycle doesn’t slow down, and neither do we.
Appears in episode
William Kristol
Recent Episodes
The Republican voters are the problem. They allowed the GOP to act as a pro-wealthy party, cutting the upper marginal tax rates that have eroded the middle class, repeal regulation that protects consumers, workers, wildlife, our environment, immigrants, etc, that then provided the wrong lesson to the Democratic party in the take over of the Clinton Democrats who are also pro-wealthy. That setup the discontent in the Tea Baggers and then MAGA to accept Trump's pro-wealthy populism because the GOP used divisive rhetoric, welfare queen, anti-DIE, anti-woke, etc, to get support of the low information, low intelligence voters to allow them to support their pro-wealthy agenda at their expense.
MAGA voters were more than willing to cut off their noses to spite their face because they are selfish people, voting transactionally (it's now a word).
This was a great discussion and thank you much appreciated. One bit that I noted was the mutual confusion early about why so much radicalism when professor said everyone was basically good in 2024. Over in Luigi Mangione land, maybe not. Income inequality is so bad in USA and there is a huge underclass now comprising 40-50% of the population where issues of housing, food, employment and healthcare are extremely precarious. I love you guys but you need to get out of your upscale northeastern wooded neighborhoods and look at even your upscale adult children trying to build a home and career.
It is over the cliff. How much more do we need to realize that if the existing system of government isn’t willing to stand up and remove this madness the we the people will rise up against this regime and demand their removal. Recall this election ? May be difficult but short of bloodshed doesn’t seem any other option? We have fallen to a dictator within our own country. I’ll fight this to my last breath
Fabulous, fabulous discussion - thank-you!! I really am enjoying Bill's Sunday podcast.
At 21 minutes, Ziblatt says it's not really clear what's driving Trump's animosity to things like NIH funding, there's no ideological vision, etc.
I think it's perfectly clear. Trump is a child bully who's been told he's not perfect, so he wants to get revenge on everyone and destroy everything that he associates with his enemies. He wants to defund NIH because it was Biden's NIH, and also because all those smarty-pants scientists don't respect him. They need to be hurt.
And he now has a team that includes very extreme anti-government ideologues who want to privatize EVERYTHING. He gets to enjoy his thirst for vengeance and just let those other people figure out how to make it happen.
Simple as that.
Ziblatt makes such an excellent point that this is really Year 5 of the Trump regime. It strikes me that the media is treating it as a "new" presidency, as if you can just plug in whatever name & face you want into their White House template and it would be all the same. That's a grievous error, if you can even call it an "error." Business as usual.
I understand the feeling of screaming into the wind about the rise of fascism. Between the obvious lies that got us into the Iraq war to SCOTUS overturning Citizens United, I've been on red alert.
I'm actually surprised that Trump has not ignored SCOTUS (by the end of the first week he'd gotten rid of anyone who could enforce judgements by the courts) and I'm surprised that he hasn't declared a national emergency and invoked the insurrection act and turned the military against his political enemies and people of color (he also fired anyone in the military leadership beholden to the constitution rather than Trump). I also think that he will suspend elections. So while I don't think people should stop fighting, for these and other reasons, I'm not sure that democracy will survive.
Up until now, I thought this was a Putin coup and it is easy to see steps from Putin, Hitler, and Orban. But now, with threats of suspending habeas corpus, the disappearing people, the arrests of political opponents, the breakdown of education, the law, and rise of oligarchs that he controls through feat, I am starting to see the similarities in the Guerra sucia, or dirty war in Argentina. In the dirty war, the dictatorship was a terrorist organization where between 30 and 50 thousand political enemies were disappeared to be tortured and killed. Just the fact that I am Jewish and that I am writing this would have put me at risk of being disappeared. (Except that I am doing it from the safety of Costa Rica where I have lived the last 9 years.)
I'm interested in what other people more knowledgable than me, think of the risk of following in Argentina's footsteps.
Thank you for not hiding part of this behind a paywall. I'm 71, interested in politics and I want to kick Don the King where he will never have a defecation again, but I'm on a severely limited income. Could you at least make sure that more of the videos and articles are free? Not against you making money, just can't give you much of mine.
You can contact The Bulwark and explain your situation. JVL has mentioned (a few times) that it does have a policy of trying to accommodate people's financial limitations. If I remember correctly, there is a high membership level where people pay a higher subscription so other people can pay less.
I worry the suspension of habeas corpus could not only be used to attack his enemies - it can be used to suspend midterm elections. and the GOP in Congress/Senate will vote with their majority in both houses to approve this suspension to save their necks in the midterms and the speakership in Congress for Johnson.
This was such a helpful discussion, especially the ideas in the books that were mentioned. It is so frightening that the Republican senators/congressmen who do care about the constitution are peeking out from under the covers to assess the risk of saying so. There is a critical mass of cowards, perhaps more than real haters or opportunists. Or maybe it's evenly split, but the results are the same.
Way off topic, or not so off topie, please William, please soon address today's other news with our talks with China, a concept of a plan to talk with China about a concept of a plan and will engage with the concept of communication with our concept of how gloriously this is going. I am sure you will discuss this but just a nudge.
Thank you! ❤️
https://substack.com/@tjpsnews/note/c-116323198?r=gdbmf&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action
Thank you, very worthwhile discussion. About red lines - you both agree we need more public definition and clarity to get the attention of voters and - equally or even more importantly - people and organizations with influence (business, religious, academic, political, cultural). Bulwark, please do more articles and podcasts that help bring definition, clarity, and urgency to red lines and actions and events that cross and threaten to cross them.
To Hell with the orange felon America will never acknowledge him He is Powerless and Most Hated Human Alive!!!
The incoherency, the chaos might just be the plan after all.
It's certainly a part of this. The more outrageous shit they do, keeps you distracted from the outrageous shit they're really doing.
At this moment, there is nothing to stop them.
If it comes to pass, and they take all the liberal justices, arrest them with NO DUE PROCESS, and lock them up. Then the Corporate Nazis, will be in control.
Then we may be looking at civil war.
So listening to the 'WHY' we fell into radicalization and falling into authoritarian rule, you have to remember the pandemic (loss of social fabric) and the toxic effect of social media norm of 'no truth'.
If the US had had the same outcomes, per capita, with Covid as Canada, 630,000 Americans who died would still be alive. It was an opportunity for a national effort but it was turned into and anti science insurgency against the "Establishment"
Yup. Trumpism is revolutionary and countercultural apparently. We’re the Establishment, man. It’s like a really bad acid trip.
I think that it is a great idea
I keep checking the Bulwark Takes for the inevitable pod about the Qatari airplane. WTF!? I'm clearly not the only one who remembers that planes from the Middle East were the chosen weapon on 9/11. Now an American President is going to fly in one!? I beg any reporter to confront ANY Republican rep. with a resounding WTFFFFFFF!
"I'm clearly not the only one who remembers that planes from the Middle East were the chosen weapon on 9/11."
Hillary - planes from the Middle East played no part in 9/11. The Middle Eastern (for the most part) participants hijacked US planes in the US for their attacks.
He may have been delivered to a woman in a hospital that was in America. But he's more a terrorist kind of American.
Oh…if there is no guarantee of birthright citizenship, we should take HIS away.
Then deport him to Somalia.😁
Mr Trump hasn’t yet achieved authoritarian power, but that is clearly his goal. I will do whatever I can legally to spoil his ambitions.
So will I.