Some voters in recent Democratic primaries have been upset with Joe Biden's handling of the Israel-Hamas war. Whether and how he can bring them back onside in November is an open question.
Pod Save America co-host Tommy Vietor joins Sarah to break down a small but critical part of the Democratic coalition, why they're upset, and what it could mean in November.
Watch Tommy and Sarah record this episode ad-free, here. Add this show to your player of choice here.
The difference between the two groups was striking. I kinda understand the ones who are using their primary votes to send a message about their policy concerns. It's the sort of thing I might do. But when Trump is on the ballot they'll still vote against him.
The young TikTok progressives, OTOH, pretty much confirmed all my worst stereotypes of young progressives. They don't regard Trump as an existential threat because they're no more committed to constitutional democracy than MAGA is. The issues they feel most passionately about are the result of propaganda efforts from enemy nations.
The best thing Biden could do is ignore the young pro-Hamas progressives. There is nothing he could do to appease them without losing even more votes. Unfortunately, that's not who Joe Biden is. Biden is like the good shepherd, who leaves behind the 99 to go in search of the lost sheep. And, by "sheep" I mean Democrats. He won't expend much effort to retain the votes of us NeverTrumpers (goats?), but he will bend over backwards to keep every Democratic voter in his coalition.
Always informative and often unsettling. Great episode.
This discussion made me nostalgic. I disagreed with John McCain about many things but he was my hero anyway; he was a great man. I voted for Obama but definitely felt that the country would be safe in McCain's hands (Palin was another story and perhaps one reason why he was not elected; she was a disaster and paved the way for Trump's populist blathering). Actually, although Romney was certainly not my hero and I did not like him much, I did not feel as though we would be in mortal peril if he won. How low we have sunk.
By the way, Biden could have repudiated Trump and Pompeo's withdrawal deal in Afghanistan; the Taliban were already breaking their word which would have been a good reason. Biden wanted out. if you want to learn about Afghanistan go listen to Will Selber; highly recommended
Wow Sarah, your boy Tommy stands almost exactly where I do on the Israel situation. Dude is really smart and well-spoken too. This was a great episode.
Regarding the new segment: The question asked is close to, but not quite what I have looked for, but haven’t quite found in the thriving anti-Trump ecosystem. I would love to have a podcast or YouTube channel that really helps me answer common challenges that I hear from my soft Trump voting friends. For example, if they say, “Biden made the border problem so much worse” or “Biden’s stimulus is the reason inflation is out of control,” what is the best response to get them to see a different perspective. These are people that are open to discussion, so I would LOVE if I had info to know what’s the best points that will encourage them to reconsider and not just push them away.
As an economist, here is my explanation of inflation:
We are now on the third round of inflation. The first round was indeed caused by the excessive stimulus enacted by the Democrats in 2021. They used Covid as an excuse, but a lot of the spending was on behalf of traditional Democratic constituencies and fetishes. The effect was completely predictable, and the spending was irresponsible. The Democrats were warned, and they pointedly ignored the warnings because they were committed to the policy as an end in itself and didn't really care about the consequences.
But that excess stimulus has worked its way through the system by now. The second round of inflation was caused by supply chain disruptions as the economy revved up after Covid. That is also past now.
The third round of inflation resulted from a serious labor shortage. There were two causes for this. First, there was the impact of long Covid, which reduced the labor force by 1 to 2 million workers. (I have not seen recent updates on long Covid, but I think some of the victims have now recovered sufficiently to rejoin the labor force.) The other cause was immigration restriction, which was instituted by Trump and largely left in place by Biden. This bipartisan policy was actually designed to raise wages! When they complain about foreign workers "stealing jobs from Americans", what they really mean is that those foreign workers are bidding down wages. The whole point of restricting immigration was to push wages up - a policy favored by Trump's working class MAGA constituency, as well as Biden's Big Labor constituency. It had the desired effect, and now the working class is experiencing buyer's remorse because the lying politicians didn't tell them about the higher prices that would accompany higher wages in the short term.
At this point, I'm not sure why inflation is remaining stubbornly high. Maybe we are still in phase three, with too few workers. Or maybe the excessive federal budget deficit is still overstimulating the economy. Both of those problems are bipartisan in origin. Or maybe it's from OPEC+'s reduction in the oil supply.
The main policy lever over inflation is wielded by the Fed. Jerome Powell was appointed chairman by Trump and reappointed by Biden. So, again, inflation looks bipartisan.
If you really want so solve America's problems in the long term, including inflation, the federal government needs more revenue. But there seems to be a bipartisan consensus against raising taxes on anyone other than "the rich" - i.e., the people who already pay most of the taxes.
So, the reason your soft Trump friends have to focus on something Biden did three years ago, which is no longer operative, is because all the rest of his policies are identical to Trump's policies, and they have to avert their eyes to all of Trump's shortcomings and ignore the fact that Trump is, essentially, a Democrat on economic issues.
I’m disappointed in Tommy V’s lack of understanding of the war with Hamas. Although he’s right that the most success Israel had in getting hostages back was through a negotiated cease fire, he forgot what brought Hamas to the table: weeks of hardcore bombing. Hamas needed a chance to regroup and thus ok’d a deal. Also, that cease-fire would have continued except Hamas ended it, just like they ended the cease-fire that had been in place on October 6. To say Israel just needs to give up more to make a deal with Hamas is facile and insulting. Hamas doesn’t want a deal. It’s perfectly happy with dead Israelis and dead Gazans, especially because the world prefers to blame Israel.
Since the Afghanistan withdrawal came up here:
Trump lost 65 Americans in Afghanistan in four years. In Biden's three-plus years in office, he has lost 13 Americans: a smaller number, mainly, because he got U.S. forces out in 2021. Of course zero would have been the best number, but getting out was the way to stop the bleeding. If people think President Trump could have managed the exit more cleanly, ask why he didn't do it.
The kids in this focus group represent a pretty small sliver of the Democratic electorate, don't you think? I mean, Sarah says they expected to get some Arab-Americans but didn't come up with any. What they got were "uncommitted" voters who weren't Arabs. I'm thinking the "uncommitteds" probably were actually largely Arab-Americans, so they got an unrepresentative sample from an already small minority of Democratic voters ("uncommitted" only pulled 13% of the primary vote).
I didn't think it was possible to get me even more pissed off than listening to a focus group of two-time Trump voters who will vote for him again. I was wrong.
This isn't really a new thing, and it might be mostly young people who are doing this, but I know people who aren't young and who say things similar to what these voters are saying. I remember seeing a post somewhere that compared voting to taking a bus; it might not take you exactly where you want to go, but it'll get you closer than where you were before you got on the bus. But I think that some people don't see things that way. It's a similar argument for right-of-center people who can see that Trump would be worse than Biden but have reservations about voting for Biden. I voted for Nader in 2000 (although, even then, I didn't agree with Gore and Bush were similar and probably would have voted for Gore if I'd lived in a swing state). I'm not as far left as I used to be, maybe because I'm older and see things with more nuance than I did then, but, looking back, I feel that voting for third parties has hurt the left. If Nader's voters had all got behind Gore, then the Iraq war might not have happened. If all of Jill Stein's voters had got behind Clinton, then Trump wouldn't have been there to appoint his judges who went on to overturn Roe.
I’ve wondered the same thing.
How about Biden responding to the progressives' anger about Gaza by leveling with them? To start, that would mean pointing out how what is happening in Gaza is inconsistent with genocide. It would would supplemented by demonstrating that Hamas actually intends to commit genocide and is only prevented from doing so by the IDF. There's more that could ne said, such as Hamas' defense strategy consisting exclusively of making it as difficult as possible for Israel to act against it without killing innocent Gazans thereby stoking international outrage whenever Israel does act, but that case might require too much bandwidth.
Whew. Talk about changing the narrative.
I felt dirty after listening to this episode. What these Progressives proposed is exactly the moral equivalent of Trump's peace plan for Ukraine: cut off American aid, and encourage the savages to proceed with their announced plan of genocide - the real thing, not something falsely given an intentionally inflammatory label. I'm sure they agree with Titania McGrath that you do have to say one thing in HAMAS' favor, they certainly aren't Islamophobic.
It's a funny line from McGrath, but Hamas is currently using Muslims as human shields.
Yes, but not Muslims as such but as humans. Sadly, HAMAS has achieved its goal, making it utterly impossible to imagine "two states, Palestine and Israel, living side by side in peace and security", as the ironbound formula runs, if not permanently then until every Israeli or Palestinian whether Muslim or Christian now alive is dead. And even then, not easily achieved. Children and grandchildren born long after October 7 will hear of it repeatedly. We can hope the grandchildren won't absorb the grievance too deeply to be overcome, but that's far from certain. The October 7 berserkers are grandchildren or further removed from anyone who lived through the events of 1948.
I found out about The Bulwark when Tim was on PSA, so it's great to see Tommy here. I love him and Dan, but rarely watch PSA any more b/c I find Favreau and Lovett immature and annoying even tho I'm a Dem. Sarah, JVL, and Tim, on the other hand, I never get enough of!
I don't watch The Focus Group a lot b/c it makes me want to "throw my computer out the window and then follow it" as Sarah said recently; but I still say she's a saint for doing this research.
Listening to these progressive young voters is more depressing than listening to 2 time Trump voters. I view 2 time Trump voters as lost: full of real and imagined grievances and devoid of critical thinking skills. But these voters do have critical thinking skills (for the most part), which makes their willingness to risk a return of Trump even more horrifying.
The problem lies with these voters not knowing their history. Trump was the most anti-Palestinian President of our lifetimes. The combined militia groups who perpetrated the Oct 7 attacks were first organized in response to Trump's unilateral declaration of Jerusalem as Israel's Capital and relocation of the American Embassy.
One girl said "at least he never funded a genocide" which shows her ignorance regarding recent history. Trump kicked the PLO out of DC and cut US aide to Palestine to nearly nothing.
His Abraham Accords sealed the deal.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/abraham-accords-peace-middle-east/
It's frustrating that these people who claim to be so engaged with the issues aren't in possession of even this superficial information. If they truly care, why aren't they investing their time to learn about it. Ugh.
I don't entirely agree with the article or the generalization that the relocation of the US Embassy to Jerusalem was necessarily in and of itself a major contributor to the Hamas attack of Oct. 7, but it seems clear Hamas saw its influence waning in the Arab world because the Saudis and others had put the Palestinian issue on the back burner. But irrespective of that , you are correct that these young progressive voters seem ignorant of anything beyond the thrill of putting on a kaffiyeh, chanting "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," screaming "genocide Joe" and disrupting traffic (with a touch of antisemitism thrown in for good measure). They could very well cause Biden to lose in a couple of swing states and reinstate Trump. They don't seem to care, and they won't get any sympathy from me if Trump is reinstalled. They, like Jill Green and RFK Jr., are willing to indulge in political suicide and ignore what's best for the country as a whole.
At least the young progressives aren't sending death threats or carrying AR15's around to intimidate those who oppose them.....you know, those kinds of behaviors that come from a lack of critical thinking skills.
Unfortunately, that's not exactly true. At least my newsfeed has blown up over the whole Riddhi Patel mess.
Idiot move on her part, but no AR15, and no anonymous threats. Right out there for all to see and hear. She earned herself a million dollar bond from her remarks, while Trump can post Biden bound and gagged in the bed of pick up and he gets..... crickets. I wonder where she got the idea she could get away with what she said?
Probably from the "I'm a young progressive and I know everything" university
Maybe from watching Trump get away with it. There were also a couple of the moms for liberty who got pretty far out there as well.
Was that before or after the Moms for Liberty threesome?
Before, they posted some Nazi quotes on their website and then got really off the wall in some school board meetings. They quieted down after the threesome thing got exposed.
"Critical thinking skills"? More like Critical Theory dogma absorbed in their Grievance Studies courses.
Admittedly a lot of the focus group participants sound indoctrinated, although some of that is no doubt their youth which tends to permit oversimplification of issues. But the depressing part is that whatever they think about a particular issue, they seem mostly ok with letting Trump win. Hard to square that circle with their purported values.
It's an example of the sort thinking that leads me to favor raising the voting age to 35 or possibly allowing voting at younger age for those having a house mortgage and at least one child in school.
Honestly, I think that Israel's best approach is to assume that all the hostages are dead, because they probably are, or soon will be. There should then be a unilateral cease fire on the Israeli side with them only shooting back if shot at, and using that time to build safe spaces for Gaza civilians in North Gaza with massive aid on the ground, invitations for people to come north, and screening them for Hamas fighters as they do. Then, when a lot of Gazans are being fed, clothed, and cared for and out of harm's way, start the final attack on Rafah, leaving humanitarian corridors for the escape of non-combatants as the Sri Lankan Army did in the final attack on the Tamil Tigers, and then close in and kill everybody carrying a gun who doesn't immediately lay down his weapon and surrender.
Netanyahu has zero interest in peace. His platform has been anti-peace since his stochastic terrorism got Rabin assassinated in 1995. In addition to his own personal hatred of Palestine, he needs the war to continue for more practical reasons. His abject failure on Oct 7 will be punished by removal from office, just as soon as this war is over.
And the sooner the better.
Oh, God, TWO Kenyons! 😣
Liberals and progressives refuse to vote for Joe Biden this November think they are voting their conscience. For me, they appear to have little to no regard for women from red and many swing states who lost reproductive rights, undocumented immigrants including DACA recipients, Ukrainian lives, etc.
If that's what they think, then they're confusing their "egos" with their "consciences".
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-04-14/ty-article-opinion/.premium/if-iran-attacks-israel-the-blame-lies-on-israels-irresponsible-decision-makers/0000018e-d8bc-d548-abef-ffff6eaa0000?utm_source=mailchimp&utm_medium=email&utm_content=author-alert&utm_campaign=Gideon+Levy&utm_term=20240414-01:19
I actually got sick in my stomach when I heard about the Israeli attack in Damascus. That Iran retaliated as they yesterday is terrifying. It's a miracle so many drones and missiles were shot down and so little damage done in Israel. This is not just about Hamas and the Palestinians anymore. It's about a whole lot more. I wish Biden all the luck in the world in dealing with this mess.
yeah i have no issues with bad people from iran getting killed, but the shear fact it was at a embassy was tantamount to when blinken came to talk to the israelis about gaza, as the israelis just announced on the day of his visit that they gave 2000 acres to the west bank settlers...which is equivalent to a middle finger to america, who is trying to help them..the general impression , you get from the leadership of israel is a finger to america, and a push towards conflict [whether by trauma, or the fact bibi needs conflict to continue to hold office] :(
Sarah raised a very good point about how the younger voters have never really seen a "normal" US election and government in their adult lives. Some pundits persist in trying to portray this whole election and the 2020 election as just another election without recognizing the extremity that we are enmeshed in. That leads some young voters (and older ones too) to the idea that the whole thing is so broken that we need a bomb thrower to blow it up so we can start over.
I also note that the re-election campaign for Bush the Younger was seen as a watershed by some cultural conservative talkers...lots of talk about abortion back then but the first move in the legislature was to privatize Social Security.
I've gone back and listened to Pod Save America episodes with Tim and Sarah.
It would be great if the bulwark posted a calendar of the bulwark crew apppearing on other media
You could argue that that Abraham accords are one of the direct contributing factors for this conflict.
The main reason I stopped listening to Pod Save America was they kicked Tim Miller out, but they also kind of irritate me. Vietor is saying what he would advise Biden to do given his problems in places like Dearborn is try to secure a cease fire in Gaza no matter what. As if things could possibly be that simple. Try applying that logic to somewhere like Ukraine, and you end up with Ukraine annexed into Russia. You have an unconditional ceasefire, and there is no resolution to the problem of the genocidal cult that is in control of Gaza and has shown a willingness to act on its explicit goals of eliminating Israel and any other Jews. Not to mention the hostages, almost all of whom are probably dead by now anyway, and if alive, suffering god only knows what at the hands of these barbarians.
The people in the group sound brainwashed. Repeatedly referring to the conflict as a genocide. If you think Joe Biden is financing genocide, don't vote for him. This is the Biden is Hitler cohort, and they're a lost cause, beyond the reach of rational argument. And if you help Trump get elected, you will reap the whirlwind, along with the rest of us.
On Israel, the thing is, there is no resolution to the problem of the genocidal cult of Hamas in what Israel is doing now, either.
I'm going to keep pointing this out: Hamas *likes* the look that Israel is giving the world right now. They have literally said they are proud and happy to see Israel killing innocent Palestinian "martyrs."
At this point a unilateral suspension of hostilities by Israel would benefit Israel (and innocent Palestinians) more than Hamas. It might also precipitate a sequence of political events that removes Netanyahu, so he is wary of anything that looks like a move off a war footing.
Hamas has always used those "martyrs" as human shields and poster children for its genocidal cause. It will continue to use every Palestinian in Gaza in such ways for as long as it exists. Anyone who really cares about the future of Gazans should be rooting for Israel to finish the job against Hamas. There can never be peace as long as Hamas runs Gaza.
The last sentence is undoubtedly true. The question is, what does "finishing the job" look like? How exactly is that accomplished? Does killing more non-Hamas Gazans now make it more or less likely that Hamas is running Gaza next year?
I recently heard a clip in which a Gazan responded to an Israeli attack by cursing Hamas. Gaza might be the only place in the Arab world where Hamas's popularity rating is under 50%. Hamas might be successfully hoodwinking the rest of the world, but the people of Gaza know who is responsible for their suffering. I doubt Gazans will rally behind Hamas again, no matter how much they fear Israel.
With that said, there are ways for Israel to reduce civilian deaths without submitting to a permanent ceasefire. But that would require strategic patience, which seems to be in short supply in the current Israeli government. Unfortunately, it's not clear that Netanyahu's incentives are aligned with Israel's long-term interests. Like Trump, his top priority is still staying out of jail.
What's the tea about kicking out Tim Miller?
He worked for them before he joined The Bulwark. They fired him because word got out about some work he did as a Republican operative before his employment there, and their fans found out about it and started making demands and the PSA folks caved and cut him.
What losers, I honestly never liked the PSA guys from the beginning.
I can understand feelings of disenchantment, disappointment, even disgust at some decisions by the Biden Administration. But anyone who can jump from such negative - even maybe entirely negative feelings to the " I'll show him, I wont vote for him, or I wont vote at all. " needs to realize and accept the fact that they're strengthening 'team traitor' ; increasing the chances that the whole country - and the whole planet - will suffer the consequences. Rajeev is exactly right; this election is so much more momentous that it's inexcusable to protest/fail to vote.
Let me help this group and any other group thinking hard about protest voting/staying home and don't want Trump:
1. If you live in Wisconsin, North Carolina, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, or Omaha (Ne-2), then don't think vote for Biden.
2. If you live anywhere else well what's the expression: "Vote Your Conscience"
You might add a secondary math lesson; 51 and 218
The one focus group member just summarized the genius of Donald Trump when he said that Trump never waffles on issues and stands with his belief. Democratic voters perceive it that way and Republicans constantly use it too whenever Trump takes 20 positions on a single issue.
The fact that Trump rarely takes any stance on an issue yet gets to benefit from voters essentially claiming he has conviction on said issue is his genius. Hopefully it catches up to him and doesn't work on abortion, but it will work for him on most issues.
Trump's endorsing the "Genocide Joe" chant at a recent rally could appeal to disenchanted pro-Hamas progressives.
Yep. It seems people confuse loud and obnoxious with conviction on an issue.
Similarly, they confuse calm and nuanced with wimpy.
The kidnappers in The Big Lebowski had more belief and conviction than Donald Trump.
Technically the pretend kidnappers I mean.
"No. Without a hostage, there is no ransom. That's what ransom is. Those are the *&%$ing rules."
-Walter Sobchak
Are the voters that hate Biden because of the Israel/Hamas conflict aware that Hamas and the Free Palestine movement goal is to exterminate all Jews? The IDF has killed a lot of civilians in Gaza but in the pursuit of going after Hamas but it is not genocide while Hamas’s goal is to commit Genocide against all Jews. It is sad and disgusting that these voters are willing to sacrifice American Democracy in the pursuit of exterminating Jews. Oh and don’t forget Ukraine and global warming and reproductive rights and a whole host of other issues in which our views will be forever silenced when democracy is dead.
I know I am old but I simply do not remember being this self focused when I was young. My first vote in a presidential election was for George McGovern, did I like McGovern, agree with him, NO. But he was not Nixon and I knew what Nixon had done to our country for four years and I didn't like that. We have an election that gives us a very rare opportunity, to compare two people who have both been president. I have my own list of what is important. Number one is maintaining our republic and I am certain that will not happen if t***p wins. But even so if you list what is important to you for a president just go down the list. Foreign Policy - Biden excellent, t***p total disaster. Rights of the individual Biden trying t***p judicial horror. Get however granular you need to. One thing besides democracy is not negotiable and that is a president for all Americans. t***p parsed America politically more than any president in memory, he actively did things to hurt "blue" states especially during the pandemic. He encouraged hatred and animosity and worst of all distrust among Americans. Biden love him or hate him there is no question he has been president for all Americans.
Never trust a draft dodger…
Yeah I will always remember Trump threatening to withhold wildfire diaster funding to California because they are not going to vote for him anyway.
Could No Labels use their ballot access to give voters another way to vote for Biden?
If they want to be relevant they should do this. This might preserve ballot access and give uncommitted voters a way to protest the Democratic party without electing Trump.
No Labels could try to set up an opportunity for fusion voting in the five states that permit it: Connecticut, Mississippi, New York, Oregon, and Vermont.
Sigh, you don't vote directly for president, you vote for the electors. Seriously though just vote for the democrat or vote against t***p because your vote absolutely counts. Democrats learned that hard lesson in 2016, do not be stupid enough to repeat that mistake.
Thanks for this podcast – a very important topic. As Sarah mentions, the effort to move a small fraction of R’s to Biden could be undermined by D’s not voting for Biden (especially in swing states). Agree a durable cease fire would be the best way to minimize that.
Is that possible with a far-right Israeli government that openly talks of annexing Gaza and the West Bank? Definitely not if the US continues to back Israel in the UN and is unwilling to respond with financial consequences. Time to act because with the current trajectory things will get worse – for Biden’s prospects and the humanitarian catastrophe. BTW, a war with Iran won’t help.
I appreciate Tommy’s in-depth understanding of the conflict. Progressives are right that US policy in Israel/Palestine needs to change. Support for Israel would be much more compelling if the US stood up for basic human rights – something Palestinian’s have been denied for decades. Aside from being immoral and jeopardizing Biden’s re-election, US policy has undermined the standing and respect for the US. Add security concerns to that.
i agree with tommy, give progressives a ceasefire - it would matter alot ..even now many progressives dont see major improvements with even the food aid, despite israelis promises, there was a slight blip in positive vibes but its near gone again now :(
How exactly is Biden supposed to "give them a cease fire"?
Stop the aide. No more money. No more planes. No more bombs. No more drones.
I don't disagree with no more offensive weapons, only defensive. I think if they actually go into Rafah guns blazing so to speak Biden wont have a choice.
He always has a choice, and I bet he will choose to support Israel.
He will always choose to protect Israel, that much is sure.
Yes, and he is dangerously close to allowing Netanyahu to hand this election to Donald Trump. Because, while Netanyahu will gladly take everything Biden sends him, we know he prefers Donald Trump.
Well he does share a unique bond with t***p. He has to stay in power to stay out of jail. And they are both wannabe dictators.
They are Birds Of A Feather.
well he can influence the israelis and perhaps he can pressure qatar or threaten hamas funding? would be my guess? but hey, this is just what the progressives think,if you dont like that , [shrugs] then dont worry about it....as its generally not your problem :)
A ceasefire depends on Israel and Hamas ... Its not just something the Biden administration can deliver on its own.
How to motivate uncommitted young people?
You have the answer, Sarah. Honor their principled stances now by giving them space for protest votes, and talking about why they can't vote for Biden. In the fall, when our choices become much more stark, I imagine that most of them will see that only Biden offers a real chance for standing with the Palestinians, or addressing any other concerns they may have. Remember being young and figuring out how to vote? I do.
What gives you confidence that in the fall these folks will get a clue?
Is it all just talk right now or is something substantial going to change?
its ironic ,most progressives i know didnt really like biden, didnt think he was for their values, but against the prospective of trump , they were starting to see some values biden was giving them...it was madnening that it was into this space jumped gaza, and progressives when for ...yeah ,i dont really like biden, he has done some small things ..but as opposed to trump , yeah we will vote biden , as the lesser evil...but after gaza, thats all changed :(
Biden should help defend Israel but not support their right wing who want illegal settlements on the west bank, pushing out Gaza residents and keeping our embassy in Jerusalem.
solving the west bank will help but the main problem for the young and the progressives is that they are receiving a daily dose of the horrors of gaza literally every day on social media.....this must be stemmed, if you want these people back :(
They are getting fed what the algorithms think they want or should see in small clips and parts of a much bigger story.
Is it really just the algorithm? Or is the CCP putting its thumb on the TikTok recommendations?
Are there similar videos about Ukraine? Just wondering why I don't see protests in front of the Speaker of the House and Congress.
My girlfriend at the time of the Russian invasion was a college professor. She said her students were all very concerned about Ukraine because they were seeing the horrific videos. Their emotional reaction was so extreme that they thought the US should be sending troops to help Ukraine!
It seems that generation is easily manipulated by emotion-inducing video content.
If it's on video or a photograph, then it's real. We parents were at fault for some of that with constant photo taking from birth. We're almost post literate because the technology enables us to "see" things instead of having to expend the effort to read about them.
Because we're not funding Russian attacks on Ukraine and Russia doesn't post things on TikTok, while IDF soldiers do.
Oh yes. I accept that. I was thinking about House members who seem completely unmoved to aid Ukraine.
2 points here
1) yes , biden did push thought the vote at the UN where they abstained, and most progressives got their hopes up..and then they had the whitehouse press team announce at the podem , that that vote was unbinding and didnt matter....its hurts more when you think you have hope and then its taking away sharply by the biden adminstration
2) i think for many of those that i talk with , is that they do think its a genocide[i am not so convinced in that vein-as there simply isnt the numbers yet in my view] but imagine seeing such horrors everyday on their media, - you equally have to add most of these voters are generally antiwar[heavily and dont want to see america in another conflict]...add in the fact israel has just hit the iranian embassy and the possibility of escalation from iran which might involve american troops, or american troops get killed and america has to get involved, would blow many progressives minds....and trump [they dont like him] but he might end the conflict quickly, perhaps not in a way they might like[favouring israel], but he would at least end it...I would say to finish in summary ,if america gets involved in a middle east war, which they see as israel starting[and helped by biden not controlling israel], then people i talk to would actually vote for trump if he promised he would end the war[they wouldnt like it but they would do it] :(
I think for most of us, the Uncommitted vote is just to send a message, and we’ll be back for the General. The Muslim population, though, I think they’re gone forever.
So where are Muslim voters going? To the party of Christian Nationalism? Perhaps they will sit this election out or vote for some protest candidate. But after that ....
Or simply explaining to them that TFG and Bibi are pretty much the same as far as their love and respect of Muslims(Saudi $ not withstanding). They would basically be voting in a regime and circumstance that they hoped to get away from.
I would guess sitting out. To be honest, they don’t gain much advantage from either party. Granted, Trump is worse, but it’s not a lot better with Dems.
Perhaps, but compare how Republican Senators attacked the nomination of Adeel Mangi for the 3rd Circuit with how the Democrats handled it.
You mean by caving to the Republicans?
The difference between racist stereotyping and election year cowardice by a couple of members representing tossup states.
Neither do I. We kick people in the teeth, and still expect them to support us.
Sarah: You shouldn't be surprised by support of this group for Gov. Whitner. I'm a center left independent (CLI? - is there such a thing?) and just about everyone except the radicals in the woods up north love Whitmer. She started out by campaigning to "fix the roads," which were so badly degraded, local news stations regularly featured car-killing potholes. And she fixed them - well made a good start anyway. Our previous GOP administrations were responsible for destroying the most critical piece of infrastructure in the southeast part of the state - the freeway system, as well as the Flint water disaster.
Whitmer doesn't seem to want to move on to national politics but wait for it. She's term limited and she's a low-key woman who knows how to organize and get things done.
Haven't listened yet but I cannot help but wonder what these people think not voting or voting for someone else will accomplish other than the election of t***p. And how do they think he will handle it?
They're not thinking in terms of accomplishing anything. The only outcome they're concerned with is how they personally *feel.*
The definition of privilege, really.
Funny, it's totally cool to attack young voters for voting on their "feelings", but call it out when rural white voters do it you've suddenly crossed a line.
If the end result of both is a loss of our liberal democracy and move towards authoritarianism they have earned their criticism. If these young voters live in vivid blue areas let them vote their feelings but if they happen to live in rural areas where every vote really does count it’s time to put your feelings aside.
I don't know who you're characterizing, but my critique is applicable to voters of all demographics who approach the ballot as "personal" expression rather than civic responsibility.
well yes most are young and are still keen on emotions , right and wrong, and would like people not to die that they feel responsible for...us older people , have lost those values [ah to be young again-winks] :)
I think we've oversold the value of the vote to people in the effort to get them to vote. It is their voice, true, but the real goal is to have influence over those two candidates that are in the running. Not voting or, this time around, voting for a 3rd party is merely enabling the ultimate winner who the voter really liked least. We need to say that your vote should go to the person you think will get you closer to your ultimate values and goals...like flying to the large city airport closest to the small town that is your ultimate destination.
"Your vote is your voice" was a terrible slogan. Your vote is your vote. Your voice is your voice. Learn to use both.
I don't think you're fatally biased. People letting themselves be influenced directly by the Chinese is a totally different animal.