JVL is joined by
of The Counteroffensive to discuss their reporting on the Chinese nationals captured on the battlefield by Ukraine, the use of drones in their war with Russia, the Trump administrations turn away from European allies and towards Russia and much more.Follow
and The Counteroffensive on Susbtack.WTF 2.0 is a pop-up show on Substack during the first 100 days of second Trump administration. Watch previous episodes, here.
As always: Watch, listen, and leave a comment. Bulwark+ Takes is home to short videos, livestreams and event archives exclusively for Bulwark+ members.
Don’t care for video? Use the controls on the left-hand side of the player to toggle to audio.
Add Bulwark+ Takes feed to your player of choice, here.
I just found & listened to this enlightening discussion. So appreciate both of your perspectives. I have a question which likely now I will need to research an answer on my own: how does Musk’s Starlink etc technology pose a risk to Ukraine’s drone warfare?
JVL & Tim, I believe the majority of average Americans are VERY pro Ukraine 🇺🇦 & are deeply offended & embarrassed by that horrific ambush in the Oval Office. I despise what this authoritarian regime is doing, shifting our govt & military toward Russia. Hate, hate, hate it. I am donating what I can to the 24Ukraine aid org. & to White Stork for field emergency kits.
Please do keep reporting on what’s happening there since the legacy media rarely speaks about it anymore.
Subscribed. I've admired his work for a long time. Glad you pushed me to subscribe.
Thank you for this important thoughtful information.
I've subscribed to both The Counteroffensive and The Bulwark.
Tim Mak is a remarkable man. His formal training is not geopolitics, but it is obvious he has a broad understanding of both it and military subjects.
I highly urge you to subscribe to The Counteroffensive if you have an interest in Ukraine and the effects of war on soldiers, civilians, and even animals.
The discussion about the training requirements for the F-16 vs drones reminds me of why firearms replaced the longbow despite a slower rate of fire. It took years to develop a bowman, and weeks to train an arquebusier.
They can’t trust Trump at all. The EU and all its governments have to come in and now. If Russia can bring in North Korea, why can’t the Poles, and the German’s bring in troops? Why does Russia get to make the rules of war? If they feel war is at the doorstep then make a plan.
Given trump’s preference for Putin, it might be good that US still looking at war the old way. Just hope Europe is actually learning from Ukraine!
Sorry, JVL but Trump wants that new F-47 since it’s named after him.
JVL telling subscribers to subscribe to Tim Mak and cancel their Bulwark subscription if they could not afford to subscribe to both got me all choked up.
This interview was fascinating, especially the information about drone technology. When I went to The Counteroffensive's site I clicked on suggested Substacks and started to read Flour Power. The stories of the mobile bakeries and the efforts to feed people and rebuild communities are inspiring, a bit heartbreaking, and hopeful. Please check them out as well.
This was so good, I listened to it twice to absorb everything! Thank you, JVL and Tim. I look forward to reading The Counteroffensive.
Thank you for this update with Tim Mak! I'm not a praying person; but I do say a prayer for them every night.
Speaking of innovation: it is my understanding that it is not uncommon for Ukrainians to be replacing some of the electronics of drones they've received from the west as the electronics are too far behind to be viable for use.
Great interview - I’d never heard of Tim or Counteroffensive. I just subscribed. Thank you for letting us know about them.
Thank you Moria! Hope you will find our work insightful and creative!
Yes, please subscribe to The Counteroffensive. Tim is not only doing great reporting on the war and Ukraine's people but he's developing new journalists in Ukraine by giving them opportunities. I would like to see the Bulwark post this on YouTube so that everyone can hear it as the discussion is thoughtful and informative. Also, Tim has a "tip jar" to help them buy needed equipment.
I have been listening to Tim Mak since his NPR days. The Counteroffensive and the Bulwark are two Substack subscriptions that I don’t ever want to do without. Tim and Philips O’Brien are my definite go-to guys for all things Ukraine these days. Thank you JVL for hosting Tim, I hope more crossovers soon.
Just subscribed to Tim Mack’s Counteroffensive.
Thanks JVL for this conversation.
You will not be disappointed. Tim and his team covers a lot of interesting cultural stuff and I learn so much every time I read from Counteroffensive.
Thank you Tai! We really appreciate your support!
JVL, based on your interview, I just subscribed to the Counteroffensive. Thank you for introducing me to Tim Mak and his critical reporting. Slava Ukraine!
I just did the same thing. Thanks, JVL!
Thank you for keeping a focus on Ukraine! Tim’s reporting is incredible.
Have been a subscriber to Tim Maks Counteroffensive for 2 years - the best Substack sub that I have ( and I have 15) also the Bulwark. This interview may be the most important strategic conversation I’ve heard in the past 35 years. Tim’s explanation of the reality of drone warfare and the American military’s obvious in obedience around it suggests to me that American military preponderance is now at risk. The comments on North Korean involvement and their military’s benefits from the war alone are chilling for American security. That the 47 Admin is oblivious to this dynamic speaks to the incompetence and traitorous aspect of the 47 regime. 50 years from now , military historians will be writing about the beginning of the decline of American superiority in the military sphere. Tim Mak, a fucking hero on my book, has offered Americans a preview of the world that my grandson will inherit - that this Admin is supporting the evil party in this war is tantamount to traitorous behavior and I believe warrants impeachment alone.
Wow Charles, that's some high praise! Thank you for the kind words.
Excellent interview and discussion. Miss Tim's stories on NPR, but his Counteroffensive work is so critically important to democracy the world over. Thank you!
Telling your customers, should they be forced to choose, to give up the Bulwark+ membership in lieu of The Counteroffensive is a prime example of what sets the Bulwark apart in the first place.
You're a class act, JVL.
What an incredibly eye-opening conversation. Tim Mak has invaluable observations on warfare, Ukraine and the US. We need to listen to him.
JVL.... GOTTA love the integrity and willingness to lose his direct income for a righteous cause. I have to find the name still of Tim s stack but am subscribing to both. Good deal, way to go JVL
https://www.counteroffensive.news/
Great video. Why is this not on YouTube? The other Bulwark takes are on there as a baseline. (I’m bulwark+ but want to share with a friend. )
Also need to figure out how to use the YouTube video viewer on paywall video content on substack. At least on IPad substack’s video viewer is awful.
Proud to support both publications. Lack of time (…and quite frankly emotional capacity) has limited the volume of articles I read from both of you. But I will forever be grateful for hardworking and honest journalists like you.
Tyler -- thank you for reading us, and please take it at your own pace. We hope to provide stories not just about the suffering about the war but some inspiring moments as well.
Interestingly, the "build thousands of cheap weapons systems/platforms vs. build a relative few very expensive weapons platforms" was the difference in approach to warfare between the USSR and the US during the Cold War. The Soviets built thousands of cheaper MIG's and the US build hundreds of very expensive F-4's, F-14's and F-15's. The Soviets built 25,000 T-72 tanks at 1-2 million dollars each while America built 10,000 M-1's at something like 25 million each. Our systems, one-on-one were way more capable but the Soviets were able to field way more jets/tanks/etc. In our smallish or limited proxy wars with Soviet clients it appeared as if our approach was more valid. We and our allies shot down way more MIG's than they shot down our fighters, for example. Now it appears the "flood the battlefield with super cheap systems" has won out over our philosophy of maintaining super-expensive platforms. I hope people at the Pentagon are keeping up with the times. Of course, they will have to convince Lockheed, General Dynamics and the rest of the Military Industrial complex, and their benefactors in Congress, that small, cheap platforms are the better approach. Not holding my breath.
James Fallows wrote this back when I was barely not a teenager any longer.
When I was on active duty in the 70's and 80's this was a highly debated topic both within and outside the military. I'm not sure that drones and it's related tech settles the argument forever, but it certainly appears that for the foreseeable future the battlefield will be dominated by the cheaper tech-enabled platforms.
Like WS Gilbert's modern Major General, my military knowledge though I'm plucky and adventurey (not really, but it rhymes) has only been brought down to the beginning of the century... how long will an aircraft carrier task force last against hundreds of hypersonic missiles?
Luckily I guess we won't need to worry about losing a fleet trying to defend Taiwan. Because no way will we try.
I’m a long time fan of Tim Mak’s, since I found him on Twitter in the early days of the Ukraine war. I followed him over to Substack and agree—you should pay for a subscription to The Counteroffensive. Did I gather from this podcast that JVL had something to do with encouraging Tim to start The Counteroffensive? If so, thank you very much! It has meant a lot to have that reporting available.
Yes, JVL was one of the first calls I had as I was thinking about starting The Counteroffensive, and his early advice was invaluable.
Great interview! Please do one with LTG Hertling (USA, Ret) on Ukraine. Love the articles he has been doing for The Bulwark.
Americans have always been ignorant and, at times, disdainful towards every other country. That said, I noticed a difference in Americans I ran into abroad before and after Sept. 11th. Before, Americans didn't stand out anymore than those from other countries. After, there was a lot of flag and dick-waving and wanting to tell everyone why their nations were subpar and America was better by leaps and bounds. The attack seemed to give a lot of Americans carte blanche to behave like utter assholes.
If anyone disagrees with that assessment, please tell me. Maybe it was just the Americans I met.
Dan, There definitely is a lot of that attitude among Americans, thinking that America is the biggest, baddest, best country in the world. However, there are also those of us who read books, & understand that other countries have deep wondrous history, stories, poetry, arts, etc.
I’m one of those people. I purchased the latest edition Audible book of On Tyranny by Dr Timothy Snyder & it had an addendum at the end. He went into the many centuries of Ukrainian history, & it was so thorough it took about 8 hrs or more of listening time. He explained the connection between Volodemyr & Vladimir & Putin’s obsession with having Ukraine 🇺🇦. It was wonderful & I will likely listen to it again. I wish everyone would. It gives you such a deep understanding of the Ukrainian people. ❤️
I spent time in Madagascar in the late 90s and the French, for the most part, were assholes to the Malagasy. A lot of Brits walked around like they were better than people from other Commonwealth nations, especially towards Australians. Your point is taken about those from mainland China and the Gulf States, but the Brits and French have been consistent (I will admit it may be different now). With Americans, though, the change in attitude was much more noticeable after Sept. 11th. I went to Fiji (much to the chagrin of my family) a few months afterwards and it actually took me off guard.
All that aside, Tim Mak is a breath of fresh air considering how little we see now about Ukraine in the media.
WOW!
One has to wonder what is really going on: North Korea & Russia buddy-ing up, and now the Chinese Nationals show up in Ukraine. Trump refuses to help Ukraine, exempts Russian goods from tariffs, ( Biden cut off 95% of Russian trade to US, but there is still 3.5 billion left), alienated Canada and Mexico, then throws down blanket tariffs, completing his attack on allies (and unihabited islands). So far, he is a Russian asset, but what about all the dark money he is getting from China for his meme coins? The SEC dropped charges against Justin Sun, who is Trump's main crypto man and still money laundering through World Liberty Bank. Why? Justin works for the Chinese government. Who benefits the most from blanket tariffs? My guess is China, who will be busy getting all the business from nations Trump targeted redirected their way. So in the end, Trump thinks he can become part of this new axis of evil, instead of realizing he is opening up North America to becoming an easily conquered pawn. We need to jettison this Administration, and fast. The second they turned on Zelensky, the jig was up.
I am just so happy that you brought Tim Mak back. It is very helpful to have his insight at this time.
I Feel you JVL. The way sentiment has changed against Ukraine sickens me. I was in Topeka this past weekend with my Ukrainian flag and so happy to hear the chants of Slava Ukraine!!!
This is such important information. I knew that the RussoUkrainian war was spearheading new technologies and relying heavily on drones but had no idea that December marked the first successful Ukrainian all territorial and aerial drone offensive. This ranks up there with learning that the first robot homicide happened several decades ago in an auto plant here in Michigan when the programming went berserk and the robot armed pinned a human worker and killed him. Robotics and AI has changed manufacturing forever and the average US citizen was caught flat footed. Likewise the United States military is not ready for the next era of warfare. I still believe global nuclear warfare will be avoided due to small scale drone border warfare that creates an economic trifurcation of our globe into Russia/Europe, China/Asia/Africa, and US/NorthAmerica/South America. What I see on the horizon is the next generation living with theocratic and technocratic oligarchs in charge.
As I texted my ex-wife (still easily one of my 5 best friends) earlier in the week - I am really tired of this Darkest Timeline, and my only certainty is that the next day it will get even Darker.
I’ve read about the Ukrainian children who have been captured and placed with Russian families. I watch Tim talk about how the North Korean soldiers must die to save their families at home; how the Ukrainians knows what will happen to 80% of their men if Russia takes over their territory. They remember Stalin.
I have also read about how Trump/Musk have cut the funds for Head Start, for research on cancer and many other diseases, even in the middle of trials, wasting billions of dollars and hours. Measles are spreading throughout the Southwest. But Trump somehow has come to believe that 1890 was America’s golden age — well it was for the Vanderbilts and Astors who could build the mansions in Newport while the rest of the country went for boom to very devastating busts.
UNTIL America established an income tax. But Trump wants to be a Robber Baron. He has no concept or concern about how 99.9% of Americans live and hope to survive. It really seems as if the Trump/Musk/Putin/Kim axis of evil are thrilled to feel the power of crushing the lives of millions of people.
I hope the Democratic Party can prove that they are listening and hearing.
I appreciate your work on this JVL. It's a big deal to me. That said, German-American here. Time to arm up. We're the bad guys now.
I am both a very dedicated supporter of the Bulwark and Tim Mak's Counteroffensive. This was a great podcast which was actually an in -depth report of actions in Ukraine. I have felt that coverage and support has greatly diminished since President Trump returned to office. I was really thrilled to see the big presence of the Ukrainian flag at last weekends demonstrations. JVL you a really a wonderful human being and you and the Bulwark's support for democracy in Ukraine is so inspiring. Tim Mak is in Ukraine. His Counteroffensive provides such comprehensive coverage of the fight for democracy and sovereignty. This includes many reports on how the fight affects the daily lives of the people of Ukraine. Do yourself a favor and read some of the previous dispatches . You wont regret it.
And, do you think we'll be additionally behind not only because we are still addicted to old arms but also the EU et al will not buy arms from us at all.
Substack sucks, I can never just scroll and find the latest videos, you hav to like dig around a bit. Great content as always though!
And gee the US is led by Donald Demented Traitor Duck and Pete Barbie Boy Hegdseth to prepare us for the WW III Don the Con is heading us for
WTF is my normal phrase that I use too many times a day. I mean WTF!
JVL: thanks for this -- ask him back frequently please.
Good grief...
What scares me is the large amount of collateral damage that the drones do. And, I'm not worried about this when it happens to Russia. But inevitably these cheaper and easily produced weapons will be used by more bad actors against other countries including us (maybe by our own incompetent military as an "oops" move). Are there good anti-drone weapons equally effective and cheap to make?
I've been thinking along similar lines.
I don't know how old Tim Mak is (I'm a lot older) and I never heard about him before today, but it's younger people like him that give me hope. More Tim Mak's in the world please. Really smart guy. Great insight. Committed. Yeah, gives me hope.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm 37 years old :)
Tim Mak is great! The stories they do on The Counteroffensive cover both the strategic and the personal. It’s very important reporting.
I am trying to decide if I can add their publication that focuses on war tech — not $ budget, time budget. So many Substacks!
He's a real journalist, unlike most operating in the US now.
Same! I'm so appreciative of The Bulwark and Substack making this so available. I learned so much about warfare today, such clear, clear, detailed reporting and analysis. Just mind blown thanks to Tim Mak.
In addition to following Tim Mak who is great, I follow Martin Belderson who reports on the tech side of the war as well.
https://substack.com/@martinbelderson/posts
JVL, thank you so much for having Tim on your show, thereby keeping the Bulwark Community updated on the Russian-Ukraine War, the Ukrainian weaponry development and accomplishments. We cannot forget the heroism and courage all Ukrainians have been going
through these past years and presently.
JVL - thank you for not letting up on the reporting on the war being waged by Russia against Ukraine. I was horrified by your reporting in the Triad today about how the North Koreans are incentivizing their troops (deployed to Ukraine) by holding their families hostage. My family (father's side) is of Ukrainian descent. I agree with you - only word is apt: EVIL
this was great - I added Tim to my substack stack
Thank you! Hope that you will enjoy our writing!
This is crazy! I had no idea Chinese nationals would be involved in this war. Thank you for reporting this important news!