Fury and Executioner

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the next level. I’m J. V. L here with my best friends, Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller.

You’ll have to excuse me. I’m a little under the weather today because yesterday, I went against my own best instincts, and I went out into the world and saw people. And as happens, every effing time I do this, I am now sick twenty four hours later. Lesson? Everyone stay home and be a hermit.

When Cassidy Hutchenson was like I would like to not live as a hermit. I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Living like a hermit is the greatest thing in the world, girl.

I mean, it Have you considered that perhaps you not interacting with people ever has done something to make you, like, like, your your immune system is, like, cratered as a result and now

So, yes. Or have you considered

that this is psychosomatic and that you’ve, like, this is a brain thing. You’ve convinced yourself that you’re sick.

That is a real possibility. That’s a live possibility, but I think what happens is my immune system is constantly fighting a war against all the germs my children, my four children, bring into the house. And, like, it’s already stretched to to the, you know, to the thinnest little day. And then you add one more random person’s germs to it, and the whole system tips up.

Have you thought about a fifth child?

No. What is it about being sick that requires you to put that thing on your head?

I’m cold. It’s a it’s just a beanie. What’s what’s it’s it’s a beanie. Can I not wear, but Tim was making fun of me for this too? Here, I’ll take it off and I’ll just sit here and be cool.

This shipper is becoming

Your hair looks awesome.

This is becoming like a costume show. People really do need to to engage with the show on YouTube. If you, Sarah Longwell, yesterday, taped the Sunday show, and Sarah Longwell so ridiculous throughout the entire show. She’s dressed like coach primes.

Was staying with Sarah while she was primping.

Was she dressed like coke prime? Did she have aviators on when she was primping?

Well, do you know why she had aviators?

She told me you all would

have thought that she high because she had just come from the eye doctor and her pupils were dilated. And I said to her when she sat down, you better put your sunglasses on because Tim is gonna say, oh, Sarah’s high.

But it is true that Henry Week got on the podcast and said hello to Tim and he’s like, and who are you?

It’s wonderful.

Who is this crazy person?

It’s a great show. You’re gonna have to engage with it on YouTube. And Sebastian reminds us that this is our last Wednesday show and the T and L YouTube. So subscribe to the Bulwark YouTube feed. If you haven’t already, I don’t understand why we’ve been talking about it for a month.

Good. Alright. So we have a weirdly packed show today, and, I’m gonna do my best to get through it. Before I I collapse into a heap. Tonight.

Beyond sight.

Bate? Will Saletan? Perhaps the most important debate in the history of presidential debates, a nation will be tuned in to business to see seven presidential candidates really hash out the issues that voters want to see them to discuss the issues that voters care about. And, I I am trying to be open to the possibility.

This isn’t part of it?

No. This isn’t part of it. I’m trying to be open to the possibility that something could happen that might be meaningful here, but I have a hard time seeing it. The only thing that I can see that might be interesting is watching six or five of the seven Republicans defend Bob Menendez and insist that he should not resign, which is the position of both Tom Cotton and Marco Rubio, because that’s amazing. But other than that, is is there any reason anybody should care about this thing?

Yeah. Okay. Please pitch it to us.

I mean, I think this Ron DeSantis last best chance. Look, this is the the undercard debate’s always been about second place to some degree. At some point, second place will I think matters some because there’ll be an attempt to do, you know, some one on one. Like, that’s that’s the dream for one of second place candidates. Right.

This becomes a two person race. And in fact, Ron DeSantis team continues to insist that it is still a two person race. And so, you know, Nikki Haley did get a right.

It is. Vivic Ramaswamy versus Donald Trump. That’s the race.

Do you know how much money is in Ron DeSantis never back down?

Like, ninety million.

Ninety seven million dollars. And this is where, I I sort of hadn’t had my head around the figure. I knew it was high, but they have so much money still. There’s no chance. No chance they’re they’re getting out.

And so I am interested in seeing how Ron DeSantis, how hard he goes tonight. Because they must understand that it is if they can’t get a bounce out of this, if they can’t sort of crawl back and get some momentum, they’ll keep spending the money because Jeff Rowe needs, like, a fifth house or something. But

I don’t know. Can I get it before you go, Tim? Look, ninety seven million dollars sounds like a lot of money, but it all depends. Right? If I said you had ninety seven million dollars to buy a Lego set, you’d be like, yeah, no problem.

Said that you had ninety seven million dollars to buy a professional sports franchise, you’d say, well, the shit, that’s not enough money. If I said you had ninety seven million dollars convince people that Ron DeSantis was good? You would say, like with a sports franchise, well, shit, that’s not enough money.

But that’s because there’s not enough money in the world to convince people that Rhonda Santis is good. The question is, I think the question is is at what point do people start making the case to DeSantis that to preserve his political prospects he gets out before he gets humiliated in Iowa.

Right? Oh, really? That’s what you think, Sarah.

Hey JBL.

I know. Like I said that.

You no, GBia, you said, I’m glad you brought this up. I’m glad you’re trying to explain that you were correct because what you said was he drops out in two weeks. And I said TikTok. No way. It’s the two weeks.

Campaign was over in two weeks, and there was a chance he drops out before Iowa.

Let’s go to the video. Yeah.

I don’t know about that. I think there’s a little revisionist j

b l. I’m with Sarah on this JBL. You you you over you over shot. You’re a little over over your skis on this prediction, but Sarah Longwell not always right. It turns out because we’ve we’ve done this.

I’m having I’m having deja vu right now. We had a podcast. It was the day of the debate. Before the debate JBL asked, does this matter? And Sarah’s like, yes, this matters for four candidates.

And I was like,

no, this matters at all, not at all. I would know. I was correct. It mattered not at all. It did nothing.

The debate did nothing. Nikki Haley went from five to eight. And Ron DeSantis went from fifteen to fourteen, and Donald Trump stayed at fifty.

Okay. So I think that well, we may have definitions different definitions of what matters at all because I think that the last debate, whole bunch of things happened. First of all, it have impacted all of the people that I said. Tim Scott, nobody’s talking about him anymore. Right?

He’s out. Vivek Ramaswamy became the person that everybody was talking about and got at least a little he certainly got a name ID bump and only a small pulling pump. Nikki Haley, I think has emerged as like the person that the

establishment will coalesce around

potentially is the second place choice, certainly a donor choice, and Ron DeSantis didn’t do enough to blunt the downward momentum, the downward death spiral of his campaign. That pattern is on a grid.

That’s, I guess. It’s all chattering class stuff, though. If you just looked at the real clear politics average, and and if you just looked at the chart, It’s like five dead people. And and Nikki Haley has one little heartbeat. Poop.

Poop. You know, like the lines are straight. Like nothing Nothing happened with voters. So I I hear you. I guess it did matter a little bit in in the donor class.

It was funny. It it did make one difference. A little birdie, a little friend of the pod. So to speak, suggested this morning that I tune in to the editor’s podcast, and I was from a review of their pre their pre game show for the debate. And I was intrigued that they are now weighing whether maybe Nikki Haley had the right strategy.

And so I guess it it did make a difference when Ron DeSantis’ own fanzine starts to wonder, maybe maybe, you know, our what kind of god king would Ron DeSantis be? If trump is an orange god king, what would Ron DeSantis be? Maybe our nasal voice, god king, we’ll work on that, send in some suggestions. Maybe he should have distinguished himself from Trump. Was one of the ideas that they proposed on that.

You’re kidding.

I know. I know.

So oh my god.

And, you know, and maybe

Put them on payroll.

Maybe. Maybe Nikki Haley now is the moment. Now there’s a little bit of disagreement. There was there was some chatter. There was, you know, some coming to terms with the fact that maybe it didn’t matter at all.

You know, and and maybe Donald Trump was unbeatable, but I, you know, I I guess in some ways, you know, it did, I think validate for people that Donald Trump is an overwhelming favorite and that it’s not really too man race at all. But like most of the voters already knew that. You know, most of the people voting in the Republican primary. And so, you know, it didn’t really change a whole lot, which a whole lot with them. And I I don’t see why tonight would be any different.

I mean, maybe Ron DeSantis ratchets up the trump contrast. What? Ten percent? Fifteen percent. Like I saw him on Laura Ingram last night, and, you know, he was, he was trying to put on his big boy boots and and offered a couple of a couple of stern criticisms of Donald Trump and you know, more so than he did the last debate.

So maybe you see that. But besides that, I, you know, what else is gonna change?

What what was his criticism? Was it on vaccines? Trump with his operation warps speed was really playing around with America’s MRNA.

He was making the argument that many of us suggested that he make, you know, ten months ago, about Trump’s efficacy. You know, he made a comment about the wall. He made a comment about, I think, the the endorsed candidates that lost. I I forgot. I I wasn’t I wasn’t taking notes.

This was something that that scrolled through my threads feed, but, it was consistent. It wasn’t like He did the he was saying that he’s like, oh, Donald Trump wasn’t that effective, but he’s really, you know, he was pit he kept pivoting. This was like a three minute little rant about Donald Trump. So that’s something. He’s warming up.

I guess it’s a little different, but I, you know, I I don’t see how any of that fundamentally changes. The trajectory that we’re on. On Fox Business and rumble, it’ll be screaming on rumble as well.

Okay. So I agree with all that. And but I do I guess there is the part of me that’s like, if Trump Like, if the exogenous event that they’re all banking on, right? Like, they all have this sort of theory of

The cheeseburger.

Trump dies, I get to be the number two. I am I am marginally yeah. I’m marginally invested in the idea of Nikki Haley being the number two versus Ron DeSantis being the number two.

Got it. So in the cheeseburger world, in the chi in the cheeseburger in Paradise world, if you will. You’re what you’re saying is just in case that happens, if the one or two percent chance that we get the cheeseburger in paradise, you would like for Nikki Haley to be in second. You know, because maybe, you know, that would be better for the Republic. That’s basically what you’re saying.

That’s what that’s what matters about this about this debate tonight positioning for just in case Trump dies.

No. I mean, look, I think that it’s just interesting. I, like, I think the idea that, like, it doesn’t matter at all. Like, I don’t know. I think watching how Ron DeSantis continues to flail through this is interesting to me.

I watching, like, people have to reckon with candidates on paper versus candidates, IRL in their performance. Is interesting to me like Tim Scott. Go on paper. Tim Scott clearly has no future in this party, like on his own. And part of that just comes down to like lack of political talent.

Ron DeSantis, I think, has very much been an heir apparent territory. So, you know, when Trump finally does die in, twenty thirty two and is no longer, the president after his long reign. You know, Ron Ron DeSantis,

has been Sarah, that’s too dark even for me.

Sorry. Sorry. Like, this is where I sort of where I do agree with JBL that, like, at some point, when your expectations were too high and they dropped so low that actually you get counted out now.

You go to Scott Walkerland. We just eat in ham sandwiches. The most interesting thing that could happen tonight is Tim Scott could bring his girlfriend from Canada. That would be brilliant. I mean, that would that would be the thing that could shake things.

Wouldn’t America love to meet her?

We would.

I am kind of waiting for it to be like he pulls out his wallet. It’s one of the the photos that come preloaded into the

in a picture frame.

Yeah. Yeah. He’s like, yeah. She’s right here. Right here.

You know, I saw Eric Ericson tweet something the other day that was like, the Democrats or the party of what was it? It was like castration, boys in girls sports, and, like, something else, like, insane. And it is, like, watching, like, a collective delusion. That’s right. We’re like, what they’re gonna do is they’re all gonna decide.

Right? I’m like, oh, like seeing Eric Eric’s to do that was like, okay. This is the lie that you tell yourself to justify. Trump like Biden don’t think you even have to go as far as JBL with, like, buying them spaces against their Tim. Yeah.

Right. The the I they’re gonna

seen positions.

What which

obscene positions? The ones about the the infrastructure spending? The one about

the debt ceiling? It’s gonna be like almost like queue stuff. It’s like this, like, the castration of boys. Like, what they mean is, saying that, like, parents and doctors have a discussion about, like, they’re the ones choosing. Know, but is Biden’s I don’t think Biden’s position is that boys should be in girls’ sports.

But, like, that is how they that’s why.

The president doesn’t have any fucking say over that. Like, I’m sorry. The president of the United States cannot say to the New Jersey’s Galactic Ethics Association. You guys have to do this. They don’t get to do that.

That’s not how it works.

And and just just like to talk about just how cowardly these people have been and how little they stepped up to the plate. I don’t think Brian Kemp endorsed anybody. By the way, did he endorse to Santa’s officially? Here we go. No.

His only governor endorsement is Kevin Stitt, Oklahoma. If you take away the people who just, like, did the safest possible thing and and endorse their home state person, like the North Dakota house person endorsed Doug Bergum. You know, for example, it’s like if you want if you eliminate that, the only members of congress who have endorsed somebody that are is not a blood relation or a member of their home state. Is Bob Goodvirginia? Tom Massey, who’s a libertarian lunatic from Kentucky, Chip Roy from Texas, and Rich McCormick for Georgia, those four have endorsed DeSantis.

That’s it. That’s it. There are two hundred plus people in the house of in the house of representatives.

I like

Did Norman didn’t Norman in South Carolina

or this?

Yeah. But he’s

from South Carolina. That’s what

I’m saying.

Another five that endorsed their home state. Whatever. You know? Ron DeSantis doesn’t have a single senator. I don’t believe that there is.

I’m looking right now. I don’t believe that there’s single setting senator that is not that has endorsed somebody that is not their home state candidate. Oh wait, no. That’s not true. Zoom Scott has a few.

Zoom Scott has a couple. He’s at one percent. Like, it is September twenty seventh. Donald Trump attempted a coup and this week he said he wanted to kill his own ahead of the joint chiefs. So he he’s threatening to kill rival military officials.

Yeah. He had checked the coup. He he wants to take down broadcast networks. The donors who said that they don’t like Trump, they’ve already given up. They’ve already given up.

Okay? And and the the the leading members that are sitting in Congress, they’re all they’re all basically for Trump. And and the folks that have retired with the handful of obvious exceptions, we don’t need to name, like, are doing nothing. And even some of the obvious exceptions like Brian Kemp have already acknowledged that they’re gonna read for Trump. And this is fucking fantasy.

Let me help you out here. If the American people look at all this and vote for Trump, then we deserve this. Sure.

I’m sorry. Could people try? Could people try? That’s all I’m saying. Just try.

I don’t don’t like tell me that you’re one of the good ones, you know, I’m supporting this ad. And I and I got calls from people that worked for these Superpaks last time I bitched about this. Like, we’re gonna we’re coming in. We’re testing. We’re testing.

I don’t like Trump either. I’m like, don’t don’t fucking whisper to me that you don’t like Trump either unless you are actually trying to do something to stop him. Because this is crazy. And like, and and I and I hear you JBL. I hear you.

This might be like there might be nothing that can be done. But, like, the lack of effort is just astonishing to me. That we gained nobody. We have Cassidy. We’ve picked up since the last time we’ve picked up Cassidy.

That’s who we’ve picked up. She’s out there. Thank you, Cassidy. She’s twenty six.

Kim Reynolds, who’s the governor of Iowa. So clearly prefers Ron DeSantis and hates Trump and trump attacks her, publicly. And what does she do? She just doesn’t endorse anybody. She decides to just not endorse.

Even though she’s an extraordinarily popular, and this was the thing. I think DeSantis was counting on her to endorse him. Because they are pals. Governor pals. And I think she actually is like one of these kinda secret normies who hates Trump.

But guess what?

How much

how much

did it matter last time around when, Nikki and Tim Scott jumped in to endorse Rubio right before South Carolina?

Yeah. I that that I think that’s true. I think it’s true that people can tell themselves it didn’t matter last time. But again, this is a collective action problem. And and also it’s a cop out to be like, well, what does my like, I don’t know about you guys.

Didn’t you grow up being told like a single grain of sand once like, that we can make a difference, like, be the I just don’t understand this idea of, well, what what difference would it’s would it make if I say something? George w Bush, it will make a difference. You should always say something.

To your soul.

Yeah. Right.

That’s what it makes a difference to. Right? It makes a difference to to doing the right thing That’s that’s what it makes a difference. I was

on the field in twenty sixteen trying to recruit people. A lot of people told us no, in Wisconsin to Charlie’s credit to our colleague, Charlie’s credit in Wisconsin cruise beat Trump. And it was a it was an effort of the local talk radio guys, walker, rye like, everybody read Ribble. Like, everybody spoke together. And that mattered.

That mattered in Wisconsin. Now, like, can we do that again? It’s been eight years. It’s a cult now. People have left.

Maybe not. I don’t know. But but are you telling me that if Kim Reynolds, I I I can tell you what the Kim Reynolds team would tell you. They’re just waiting. You know, we’ll see maybe we’ll endorse in December.

We wanna see who has the best chance to do it, and maybe that. I was just

rushing to this on some arbitrary time.

Are you telling me it wouldn’t make a difference if the governor if if Reynolds and grassley and, you know, Joanie Ernst if if the club for growth or whoever spent fifty million on every, you know, news out, a news station in Iowa running ads that said, Donald Trump is a danger. He’s a loser. He’s pathetic. I saw him firsthand. I’m gonna be for Ron DeSantis.

That wouldn’t move things three percent, four percent. So okay. So maybe it’s like we don’t wanna blow ourselves up to move things three percent, four percent. That’s fine. I guess that’s fine, but don’t tell me it doesn’t.

It wouldn’t matter. It could matter. On the market.

It could matter. But they’re not trying. General election. For sure. For these people aren’t willing to risk helping a Democrat.

That’s I mean, that that’s the real problem here. Right? Where they have some leverage is, as you say, in that, like, one, two, three percent for the for the general election, but none of these people are gonna do that.

I’m a little worried that if people they’re not coming out hard during a primary. Right? Like, this this thing from the national review, like, what we’re arguing, that Trump should be And it’s like I bet if I did the ratio of articles that you’ve written about Trump shouldn’t be the nominee relative to, like,

Hunter Biden. Yeah. That’s right. That’s

right. Yeah. Like, Nobody nobody is meeting the moment on the danger or being clear eyed about it. But anyway, but the but the point is is, like, the safest time for these Republicans to come out really go hard against Trump is during the primary because there are other Republicans they can support. And so if a bunch of these guys aren’t coming out now, I’m skeptical that they will come out during a general election.

This is why I’m going to be on-site tonight.

I do also think though people don’t understand Like, they don’t think it’s over yet. In the focus groups either, but, like, they still think there’s a chance for something to change. And I think as long as they tell themselves, something could still change in this primary, they don’t feel like I do wonder if once Trump is actual nominee. Some of these guys I think could come out and say something. Like, I I just hold out this hope for, like, George w Bush and those types to come out and say something this time if it’s shot.

I’ll send a press release.

Here’s the thing that that interests me. Because it’s not the case. The Trump is doing a pretty good job of hiding off the crazy. Right? It’s not the case where trump is trying to put up the mask of normalcy to give all these people alibis, things keep getting worse for Trump.

He does things like the milly thing, like saying he’s gonna do whatever he’s gonna do to NBC Universal for whatever reason. We we had the summary judgment yesterday in the New York state attorney general’s case against the Trump organization, finding, again, just summary judgment massive fraud to the tune of, the Trump organization is gonna be disbanded and barred from doing business in New York state. Again, this is just another it’s not like these people can even hide behind like, well, that was all in the past. He’s, you know, he’s learned his lesson. Things are he’s on the up and up now.

Things just keep getting worse and worse and worse. And because that’s the trajectory we’re on, I have a hard time seeing the pathway for these people to change and shift and say, okay. Well, now I’ll be against it. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I mean, in one jurisdiction, there’s a hilarious George Conway map on x. That’s like, there’s like a seven block ratio radius where you can see where Donald Trump’s business has been declared a fraud, you know, where, he was, you know, he’s under indictment for campaign finance violations lying about his, you know, his affair with Stormy Daniels and where he was, you know, convicted by a jury of his peers, civilly, held responsible for rape. Like, that all happened within seven blocks in New York. And, like, that has not yielded any movement.

And then Trump’s response to all this stuff is is insane. It’s like hard to keep track of all the insanity, you know. Like, I mean, his response to the to the business, like, that he’s been running a fraudulent business, which we all knew for decades. That screwed over regular working class people. His response to that is that, oh, they undervalued Mar a Lago.

Mar a Lago is worth one point eight billion. Oh, really? Really? One point eight billion. I guess maybe because of all the state secrets that are in there.

I guess if you lump that if you lump that together, like, that’s That’s that’s part of why. I mean, he it was, there there was another one that I came up this week. I was reading some article that was like a a alapundit nice thing. Like, where he’s running down all the crazy stuff that he did. And, like, you know, John Kelly was testifying to things in in one of his lawsuits that I didn’t even know.

Like about about crazy stuff that he was he was preventing. And there’s just a constant onslaught of ins of insanity And yet, like, Brian Kemp’s judgment is that he’s clear it’s clearly better. Right? So I I I I concur with him.

A lot better. That’s my favorite. My favorite thing in that entire Kemp statement is the inclusion of a lot as if it’s not even really

a close kill. Not a close call.

Yeah. These guys’ judgment can’t clear the lowest of moral bars.

Alright. Tonight during the debate, Trump is gonna go meet with the union workers, I guess. I hope that Tim Scott attacks him for that and says that, because he I I assume you guys saw Tim Scott’s thing on this, which is that he really liked what Reagan did to the air traffic controllers. And if he was president, he’d like to do something similar to the the United Auto Workers. This is why you’re losing, dude.

So I don’t know. I would like to see the Republicans on stage attack trump for being friendly to unions. That would be that would be great. Are you as as dark as I am on the idea that the unions are gonna wind up at the rank and file level, basically be with Trump and not Biden? Am I wrong?

But they already were.

Right.

First of all, rank and file union members have historically been much more Republican than the leadership Yeah. And I think that Trump’s populist takeover of the Republican Party had a lot to do with the fact that he ran as somebody that’s sort of white working class and I think increasingly a multiracial working class feel like they can identify with And so what’s he will he will find a way to align, actually siding with the union sort of economically, but he will fake side with workers in a way that he has done for a long time, and in his full populist way, that these a lot of these folks are attracted to.

Again, this is a man who refused to pay. Many of workers to what they were contractually owed because his entire rationale as a businessman was to sign a contract and then after the work is done to renegotiate the contract because he had the money to withstand There’s

a there’s a great old clip that was going around from, like, two thousand eight from the last UAW strike where Trump was asked about this because he does he did interview constantly even you know before he was politician and he was like, you know, it’s like I deal with this with guys at my work. He’s like I give him a three percent bonus one year and then another five percent next year, another eight percent the next year, then another three percent the next year. Next thing you know, they’re making more than me. You know, it’s like, okay. Yeah.

Sure. But he’s like, and I think that the unions that’s a problem that the union guys have. Like, you know, the the executives that head honchos end up getting paid less than the workers because they keep getting raises every year. So this is your this is your man of the people. Working me and saying, I don’t, you know, I I think Joe Biden deserves credit for going out there.

I I I fundamentally, you know, and and not probably in the communist JBL and Joe Biden, viewpoint on various union related policies. I have certain sympathies, to union workers, but, you know, I think that sometimes the union leadership is goes a little bit overboard on some of the stuff. But it is strategically speaking, putting that aside. Obviously, I desperately needed. And and I’m happy the Biden went there the day before Trump, and that didn’t get outflanked on this.

And because if you just look at the numbers, there are polls out this week, Like, it is a problem for Democrats. Right? Like, if you just look at it over a time horizon, like, despite the fact that Democrat policies on economic issues haven’t really changed. If anything, they’ve kind of become more pro worker really, if you look at the Clinton era to now, the view of Democrats among working class white folks in particular, but not just white folks, working class voters, is that they don’t care about people like them to the same degree. And so you have to do the performative nonsense to demonstrate to them that you do care in addition to the policies.

The policies matter, but so does the signaling, the social signaling. And so I I think it’s good to bite and went there. And and I was about that. I thought it was smart of Trump to to counter program with with these guys, and I think Biden did take the air out of that bubble a little bit.

But can I just say that, like, this the auto worker, like so I I agree with Tim? My my sympathies are also not quite with the UAWM. It especially the, basically, sort of, the anti progress thing here, like, it you are pitting Democrats who want more electric cars for environmental reasons, against union workers who wanna keep combustible engines because they wanna keep making the cars with a lot of parts in the way that they always have and they wanna make more money and they wanna continue to have the same deal, but, like, the industry is changing. And, like, part of why they’re gonna be mad at Biden is because Biden is pushing sort of this revolution, it or pushing us as a country more toward electric vehicles. Because they’re better for the environment.

And so, like, that’s a central tension that Democrats sort of have to deal with.

So that is the logical tension And that would make sense. Right? I mean, I could see that. But if that were the case and this was all following logic, then The people, the non union blue collar workers who would be getting all of these new non union jobs in Tennessee and Kentucky and Georgia and South Carolina, would be pro Biden because Biden was making those jobs that they were getting possible. And my sense is that that’s not happening.

Like, this is a lose lose. Those people are all gonna still Joe Biden’s terrible with all that environmental stuff I just got a new job. That’s great. Our town is coming back because we are we’re building a factory right over there. Yeah.

There’s a ton of, like, factories that are being built right here in Louisiana between New Orleans and and Baton Rouge, like a ton of stuff that’s related to government incentives, you know, from these various bills, whether that’s you know, kind of carbon capture stuff or or, you know, other other sorts of more clean energy. And I don’t I I just I just don’t expect to see whenever this Jefferson Parish, whatever the parish, I I gotta learn my new state better. What I I don’t expect to see the ex Urban New Orleans Parish is between here and Baton Rouge where where the where these, factories are going, you know, to start changing from red to blue anytime soon.

But can I just say like this to to me? And I could be talked out of this. This is me thinking it through. I feel like these are where Joe Biden struggles on sort of the communication side of talking directly to bowl about the fact that, like, so they’ve got they’re doing all of this revitalizing manufacturing actually comes with, oh, they, like, they’re doing a lot of it. It’s in these infrastructure bills, but a lot of it is new green energy manufacturing stuff.

Right? It’s like, parts for solar, parts for wind, and like, I think you’ve gotta talk to people about that because what the UAW is trying to do is hold on to a world that’s leaving. And frankly to a world that Joe Biden is helping to push into reality. Right? They they have a they really want this new world.

And so I think that, like, you’ve gotta get up and sort of level with people and be like, here’s what we’re doing to try to bring manufacturing back. Here’s how it’s gonna Bulwark. But it might not look the same as it always has. And like, nobody’s really talking to people, and this is where it’s sort of a la and like creating, I think what is a real narrative manufacturing is changing in the country, but how Democrats are are ushering a new era that’s gonna provide good paying jobs. It’s gonna revitalize unions, but like people are gonna have to have a, like, look to the future about this.

And instead, it’s gonna give Trump because they’re not talking to people. You just get this opportunity for Trump to, like, slide in there and just tell lies about China. And to sort of ride on what is going to be a working class somewhat populist backlash to electric vehicles because You know who doesn’t drive electric vehicles yet? Like regular voters. Like the people who are gonna make electric vehicles, sure as heck can’t currently afford electric vehicles.

Yeah. I mean, except that the Biden administration is I mean, you know, part of the package here is they have a whole slew of incentives for the union States to retrofit existing factories. Right? And the the and this is, as you say, the the tension here is they’ve created incentives for the auto manufacturers to switch over to EVs, which the auto manufacturers take as a chance to move production out of union states into right to work states. And to try to counteract that, what the administration is trying to do is incentivize them to stay stay where they are in retrofit existing factories.

Which I think is like the responsible policy reaction to that problem that they’ve created. Right? I mean, it is a that’s kind of what what we would want. Right? We, you know, manufacturing is changing.

It will cause some economic dislocation. So they’re trying to use the resources of the government to minimize that dislocation. They just don’t get any credit for it with voters.

And again, I I don’t know. I, like, it’s hard to get credit with voters. If you’re not there I mean, I did a focus group with Democrats. You did it yesterday. I mean, they don’t know.

Anything. I mean, you should you should hear how unhappy the Democrats are with Biden. And I’m sorry, but like, they have no idea what was in. They’re like he hasn’t done anything. Like, that is a they feel like he hasn’t done anything.

They feel like he doesn’t fight hard enough. And this is where I think having somebody who was capable of really explaining this moment to people who was able to, you know, forcefully advocate And instead, like, I know they’re spending millions of dollars on ads to be like, kinda happy new. This is stuff that we did. No one knows though. I I don’t know.

I, like, I don’t know anything about their strategy or, like, how much they’re putting into it, but that story Foters don’t know it.

Alright, Sarah. You get to choose. Last topic, do we do Dion Sanders or Cassidy Hutchinson?

Can we do both?

Sure.

Long show.

I am surprised good for you.

I’m not fresh.

So where where do you wanna start? Tim, so you choose you pick first name. Casson.

What wrote about Dion? What’d you think? Jeville, did you read my triad? Do you read other people’s triad? I did.

What did you think about my what did you think about my de intake?

I thought it was great.

There’s some mixed reactions and comments.

Really?

Yeah. Well, because Dion’s had a perfect human.

So against my better judgment, I am pro Dion. And I don’t I don’t like that sort of brashness I really like how he’s been in defeat. And as you said, I mean, the the best thing about him was the, the reaction to that late hit by Blackburn in the the Colorado state game. That’s the stuff that makes me, like, just jump all the way on board. Right?

Because that’s that’s great coaching, great leadership. I love that thing. Taking the receiver aside after he’s having a couple tough plays and tell him, hey, don’t worry about it. Don’t worry about it. You’re my dog.

I got you. That that’s the stuff that I just eat up and I love it. So I’m really I I’m I’m rooting for him, and the other thing is It’s not like all of these other coaches in college football are great. They’re scumbags. College football coaches are terrible It is a awful class of human with some exceptions, but college football coaches are a terrible class of human.

For the most part.

Why?

And, you know, so it’s not like like Dion is, like, ruining some wonderful fraternity of of men who are shaping young men or something like that.

Well, Tommy Toberville was a former college football coach Sarah Longwell what gives you an insight into the kind of quality that you’re getting.

Yeah. How wild about him?

Yeah, my thing about Dion is I also, I I didn’t really come in with any pre existing positives or negatives. I mean, he was cool when I was a kid, but I was not like a Dion fanies on the cowboys and, you know, so like in Florida state and I didn’t like you to those teams So, my the thing about Dion is every interview I watch, I’m just unbelievably impressed, like by the depth of his answers, the thought fullness. See, now he brags. Right? Like, there’s there’s there’s the low calorie bragging and all that sort of cockiness too.

But, but, like, whenever you get into a challenging issue, like, he is talking about the souls of the kids. One of the things I didn’t mention in the article that I just really loved was, after their first big win when no, like, this team was one in eleven last year, sir. They had nobody. They were terrible. And he comes in.

They win their first three games. And after the first win, some, you know, he was saying an interview that, like, the kids are all excited they’re gonna go party. And he was like, I want them to enjoy themselves, but what my message to them was, Whatever you do, think about somebody in your life you respect and think to yourself. Would that person do this? And if they said yes, then I’ll write.

Go ahead and go ahead and enjoy yourselves. Like, I, like, that was, like, that I just that is just one small example. Of like a very human thoughtful advice. It’s not like some old white coach wagging their finger and being like, we got curfew and you gotta be in at ten. No.

It’s like be a man. Think about somebody that’s grown that you respect. And like, what how do they behave? And and this is where I just does tie the political thing for me. Like, there is in a good world, which we do not live in.

The conservative world would love to be on. Like, he is a family person, He like he loves his kids. He he loves God. He’s religious. He talks about Jesus.

He talks about God. He talks about being being a grown man, being being respectful. You know? And he also likes money and capitalism. Right?

I mean, like, he is like a nineteen eighties you know, like, perfect Republican, but he’s black, you know, and he’s and he’s a little bit brash.

And He’s also racially aware. That is the very racial way. It doesn’t do the Tim Scott thing.

Right.

I mean, you know, the race stuff is a real thing to Dion. And, you know, he is, you know, talked about Yeah. You know, people don’t like it when there’s like, you know, a black man who’s out there being cocky. Like, he he he gets it and is willing to say that out loud. Republicans do not like that.

And so because that is now, right? Like, the woke stuff, quote, unquote, is now the fissure. Right? Not every not every single person, right? But, like, you see this MAGA world, goes against him.

And like, you see this on my feet. Like, everything has to be political now. Right? And and it’s just like, man, if if you just replace Trump with Dion, right? Like you would have the braggadocia, you’d have the confidence, but you’d have all of these other virtue choose.

Virtu is called. He’s not a perfect person. Yeah. That’s what people in the comments are saying. Well, he did this.

He did that. Yeah. He’s not a perfect person, but he there’s something to be said for espousing virtue. For virtue signaling instead of voice signaling. And and like this is is what I I has got gotten me a soft spot for him.

And then it’s just so in contrast to all the fucking Trump nonsense, which is the exact opposite.

Sir, I can’t tell if you disagree or you’re just supremely disinterested. I,

caught, like, a little bit of him on sixty minutes, and I was just, like, this guy’s talking about himself a lot. Like, what’s all this hype about? And so I

There’s no doubt.

Yeah. And I I I remember him that I remember that he did in popular culture when I was a kid, but, like, I don’t know anything about it. So I’m not following it that closely. The only thing I wanted to say is, like, wanna give snaps to the idea that, you know, virtue signaling gets a bad rap. People act people say virtue signaling is like a bad thing.

Furchase signaling is great. Like, if Donald Trump, after all of the things that he did that were super bad in his life, and like, they were all baked in. Right? Like, we all knew, like, what a scumbag he was. But he became as like a person both running for president and also as president.

Somebody who talked about the mistakes he made, but like here’s how, like, but I think you should be a good person or, you know, I’m gonna virtue signal a lot. That would be a totally different ball game. I am not trying to hold bad things against everybody forever. In fact, I think that’s something we do as a culture sort of wrong is like we don’t let people grow. And I think I think there’s certain things that I find unforgivable, like, few, you know, sexually assaulted somebody or, like, kills, like, there’s but There

are a lot too.

For a third presidential term would maybe be one for me.

That’s right. But anyway, I’m just, like, virtue signaling is a good thing and we could use a lot more of it because that Trump is vice signaling. That is what he does.

Here’s what you will really like about Dion Sarah Longwell he came to Colorado with a program that was one and eleven the year before. He told all the existing players to leave And he said, I’m just gonna bring my own players with me. You guys are losers. I’m bringing in a bunch of winners, and we’re gonna win. I bet you like that sort of thing.

Is that what he did?

Yeah.

So he just brought in a bunch of new players.

There’s some old players, but not a lot of new players. A lot of people got shown

on the phone.

I don’t know if there’s anybody from that team left.

Yeah. There’s Is

there anybody left over? Yeah. There’s some.

It’s not like he took an existing bad news bears team and, like, turned them into winners. He just, like, brought a bunch of winners in.

Well, no. I mean, he brought a bunch of people from Jackson State in PCU. Okay. He’s like, he

brought him up.

He was coaching at a historically black college, and he brought a bunch of players from that team who he believed undervalued and underappreciated because they were at a historically Bulwark college. Yeah. And he brought them with them to a big, you know, power five conference And this proves like, yeah, these these guys are good enough to be power five players, and we’re gonna win.

Okay.

Again, not perfect. Not saying he’s Jesus. Don’t think that we should have a cult to them. But I like I like it.

What’s what’s wrong with that? These kids It

would have been nice.

I colorado did not lose their scholarship. None of those kids lost their scholarships. They could still go to college for free. And if they want to transfer and play football, somebody else, somewhere else they could. Yeah.

It’s not like these kids were going to the NFL anyway. Right. Right. I No.

I just do think it’s categorically different. I didn’t realize that. Just in what I’ve caught of the ephemera, that instead, I I thought that the Cinderella story of him was that, you know, he walks into a flailing program No. And through his what excellence as a coach, he’s turned that program around. But he actually just brought all this.

No. It’s through his sheer charisma and excellent city brought in really good players.

Yeah.

They’re like, I wanna go I wanna go I wanna go play for prime. Anyways, speaking of seeking of people other flawed heroes, Cassidy also. I hate you know what I hate about the when I sent something nice about Cassie, there’s always one liberal that’s like, but she was there till the last day. It’s like, I know. I know.

Okay. I know. Alright. But, like, she still was twenty five, and she’s still there when a coup is happening, and g and and grown ass men like Mark Meadows and Jim Jordan and are and Donald Trump are all around her. Who are supposed to care about the country, and they’re like rooting for the coup, and she’s in there going, wait.

Whoa. Whoa. This is bad. Can’t we stop this? That’s not nothing.

That’s not nothing. And and Ron DeSantis stories that she told in this book about what was happening as the as the building is being stored. I did you see the one about the hanging? She was like, I don’t she was like, she overheard Trump and and Jordan and Meadows and some other people talking about hanging. And she was like, what are they talking about?

And then she realized they were talking about the hang Mike Pence chant. And and and it was after Trump heard about the hang Mike Pence chant that he sent the tweet. That’s like Mike Pence is a coward. I that is astonishing. So anyway, I don’t know.

I I think that, I I hate that she is now getting from the right that’s like, oh, I mean, the shit that if you are in right wing Twitter that I have to suffer through, the grossness that she has to deal with is just unbelievable. It’s un I mean, it’s believable, but it is just so out of bounds about her looks and her and her motivations and, you know, her soul. I I guess just it’s disgusting. And it’s like, she did it. She’s taking it on.

And she and there’d be like, oh, she’s got a book deal. It’s like, no. The the fast track was sticking. The fast track was sticking financially. Okay.

She is doing exact the best we can hope. And the fact that it’s only her is insane to me. Twenty six year old woman. Plenty of people in there. Just just Cassidy.

Just Cassidy. And also, like, thank god for the twenty something women through the Trump years because they are the only ones they, but they were and not just our shameless. Like, the people who testified in front of the January sixth committee, the people who have taken on death threats. And like, You know, I gotta say, Tim, I also see a lot of this right wing stuff. And it’s even, you know, speaking of things that I don’t follow, I don’t know who this football player is that Is or is not dating Taylor Swift, who I also pay very little attention to.

The number of conservative men in this bar the the both the bar stool sports, as well as like these old conservative types who are out there talking about like Cassidy Hutchinson’s looks or calling them, what did Navarro say? Like, they’re pimping, like they’re pimps?

Jay counsel told Roger Campbell called Taylor so tomely yesterday. Roger Campbell looks

like a film with eyeballs. And, like, the the these guys, the where

He called Taylor Swift.

Holy. He’s one of the ugliest people I’ve ever seen. A lot

of things you say about Tell or swift if you don’t like her. The woman is not homely. That’s crazy.

Homely is the nicest thing you could say about Roger Kimball.

Yeah. The misogyny and like how brazen it is, how toxic it is. And like you see, didn’t you guys watch? Did we ever talk about this that guy Crouder who’s like the right wing talker. And they they there’s this video that came out of how he was talking to his wife.

Like, that was caught on a ring cam and the way how, like, abusive he was and, like, disgusting to her, the things he was saying And, like, you see this all over. Like, there’s this weird, like, infusion of that negging culture, right, where, like, What was that there was like a book about about dating?

Yeah. Tucker Max. Whoa.

Yeah. But it was about how you how you make women feel insta cure and terrible and treat them badly so they’ll like you was like the that, like, infusion of that sort of the bar stool sports, the toxic and I didn’t used to be someone who would be like toxic male culture, but like, that I don’t know what else to call what I’m seeing right now about the way that people think it’s fine to talk about women. So, like, what Cassie Hutchinson has to deal with for people who wanna, like, say, well, this isn’t that brave. Like, the amount just the mountain of disgusting shit. And and the way that the right has now sort of co opted this toxic male stuff where, like, it is fine to just be disgusting to women and comment on their looks.

Like, that is now replete through the right.

Yeah. A common take I’ve seen is is like multiple times different people. Trump when he gets back in, shouldn’t hire any what young women. Yeah. Like like that’s just like accept an accepted take in like the middle of the bell curve Republican like Twitter world.

Right. Because they tell the truth.

Do they not understand how he hires? I I don’t, I guess. Do these people not understand how Donald Trump makes hiring decisions?

Guess not.

Alright. Good show, long show. Tim, enjoy Queen Queen b, queen bae. What do they say?

She’s gonna be so good. Gonna be so good tonight. Big Frida’s gonna be out there with her. It’s gonna be long. I’m gonna be tired tomorrow.

I’ve gotta tape a lot of things tomorrow. So I’m just I’m gonna, it’s, like, gonna be a Will Saletan moment for me tomorrow. Just hung over after three and a half hours of Beyonce. She goes late into the night, apparently, but I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna get home.

I’m gonna watch this stupid meaningless fucking debate. Then I’m gonna have takes about it tomorrow with and I’m gonna sound like you. It’s just that voice like this.

I, that’s that’s amazing to me. We live such different lives. Sarah Longwell you guys on, Sunday. Bye.

We got a good one Sunday.