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Hello Iowa, Goodbye Primary

January 3, 2024
Notes
Transcript
The gang is back to kick off 2024 by delving into the Iowa primary, where GOP primary voters seem poised to give aspiring dictator Donald Trump a landslide victory. Plus, the gang has differing thoughts on the president of Harvard University stepping down, as well as whether Nikki Haley has any shot of becoming Trump’s VP.

Buy tickets to our live show, AN EVENING WITH THE BULWARK, in San Francisco on January 18th here: https://www.commonwealthclub.org/events/2024-01-18/election-2024-evening-bulwark

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors and omissions. Ironically, the transcription service has particular problems with the word “bulwark,” so you may see it mangled as “Bullard,” “Boulart,” or even “bull word.” Enjoy!
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:05

    Hello, everyone. Welcome to the next level I’m JBL here with my best friends. Sarah Longwell and Timbel are happy twenty twenty four to all of you. It’s a new year. It’s gonna be a great year.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:16

    We are starting it off with, a little live show out in San Francisco at the Commonwealth Club. There are no seats left. There are some standing room tickets, I believe. But I don’t know how many they have those they have. You should come anyway, though.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:30

    Like, it’s not gonna be five hours. We’re not gonna be playing free bird over and over again. Come. And even if you’re standing room only, like, you have to hang out with us, and we all, like, you know, chit chat and stuff after the show, it’ll be great.
  • Speaker 2
    0:00:42

    It can also be like a Taylor swift situation where you guys just, like, wait outside the Commonwealth Club and shout at us and go, woo, woo, and, like, throw panties at us and stuff, but then you don’t to come in. That that would be cool too. That would be fun for everybody.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:55

    Maybe we
  • Speaker 3
    0:00:55

    need we’re gonna need bigger venues, guys.
  • Speaker 1
    0:00:59

    Stadium. I don’t
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:00

    know what to do.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:01

    You go to arenas first then stadiums. That’s what Steven Vance. We talked to him about playing Wembley. He was like, you know, you build this one one audience member at a time. You start in clubs, and then you move to, like, theaters and then you go to arenas and then stadiums, I think.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:16

    So Alright. So we are, what, twelve days, Timothy? From Twelve. Iowa? Twelve days from the Iowa caucuses.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:24

    The all important Iowa caucuses. And let me tell you. Twelve days is a lifetime in politics. Anything can happen.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:30

    Think about all the birds you get during the twelve days of Christmas. I mean, you know, Yeah. Like, could
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:35

    have hundreds of birds, and I mean, this is when Rick Santora,
  • Speaker 3
    0:01:39

    it is a big
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:40

    surge.
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:42

    So, Sarah, I went back and I looked. I I believe that Donald Trump is going to have the largest margin of victory in Iowa of any Republican in the history of the caucuses.
  • Speaker 2
    0:01:53

    By far. I also looked at this yesterday before And, you
  • Speaker 1
    0:01:59

    just did an Iowa focus group, and you can’t give us all of it because the good stuff is in the focus group show. But, I wanna hear what you can give us.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:07

    A little taste.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:07

    Just give us a little taster. So first of all, we’ve got an episode that’s pre taped for January it’s coming out with Kensinger, this Saturday. So our first episode of twenty twenty four.
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:16

    Hold on. I’m sorry, boss. Does he discuss Trump’s smell?
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:20

    I think this was pre smell. We need
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:22

    to do it just a full bonus episode with him on the smell. I don’t know why this just came so late in you know, where it was Kenzinger is holding all this material in twenty twenty about Trump stink.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:32

    And but this is and this is Kinsinger has personally smelled him?
  • Speaker 2
    0:02:35

    Yes. Kinsinger said he personally smelled them and he smells like ketchup and b o and but, and he doesn’t know why more people don’t talk about it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:45

    We it didn’t come up.
  • Speaker 1
    0:02:46

    It didn’t come up, but we have a
  • Speaker 3
    0:02:47

    great it’s a great show though with Kensinger. And we go back and we do, we have three years’ worth of January six focus groups. And so we go back in the archives, back to when I was moderating and like go through them. So it’s cool. But the next episode after that is gonna be Iowa voters right before the caucus, but we did this group yesterday and I have to tell you about it because it was such a banger.
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:10

    We had a guy who said Look. I don’t wanna sound prejudiced. But I don’t like Vivigramaswamy’s name. Don’t like his name.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:21

    You know what? Nothing that has ever followed the phrase. I don’t want to sound prejudiced, but Has ever not sounded not prejudiced?
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:30

    And it was funny is that actually the way I was at this point, right? Because, it was the moderator who was talking about Vivek. And he was like, I don’t like his name. I don’t like where he’s from. I don’t wanna sound prejudiced.
  • Speaker 1
    0:03:41

    Cincinnati. I got a problem.
  • Speaker 3
    0:03:43

    Cincinnati too. So people start going, oh, yes, he there was like uh-uh nine eleven like connection. Like he’s like I’m still mad because of nine eleven. And so somebody’s like, oh, Yeah. From India, moderator had to just, like, chip in to be like, he’s from Ohio.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:00

    You know? Just Ohio. But, okay. No. It sounds prejudiced here.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:05

    But that’s not even it. Okay. So first of all, we’re gonna do an episode that I’m so excited about for the FOCUS group because it’s with Anne Seltzer. The angry Seltzer. Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:14

    She said yes.
  • Speaker 1
    0:04:15

    That’s amazing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:15

    And I’m so excited. There’s nobody if you get a pull done about Iowa, she’s the only right one. She’s the rightest of the right pollsters. I’m really pumped to have her on. I’m interested to ask her.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:27

    She’s gonna watch this focus group. You know, we’re gonna Qual and quant collide. But here’s the thing, and and just to go to the point you guys were just making about how big Trump’s victory is gonna be. Listening to this group last night, We were trying to ask about Ron DeSantis, trying to ask about Nikki, and people were talking about them. But here twelve days out, the idea that Trump is going to be the nominee, is such a given, such a foregone conclusion among these voters.
  • Speaker 3
    0:04:56

    There’s no, like, I mean, there’s a couple of people when you ask specifically about Nikki, it’s like, oh, yeah, I should look more. We asked about the CNN debate because there’s going to be a CNN Iowa debate just Niki and DeSantis and there were some people who were like, oh, I didn’t know that was happening, but yeah, I might watch it. Then they maybe they have some second choices, but they all think DeSantis should have waited. Like, the the part about the Santa’s, there’s just it’s so brutal on him because they’re like, you know, he seems kinda like he’s given up. He just seems really depressed.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:27

    Well, you’d be depressed too if you were fifty points behind. Like, they just it it they don’t even know how brutal they’re being Ron DeSantis.
  • Speaker 2
    0:05:35

    I’m more concerned that Ron DeSantis might kill himself than I am considering supporting him in the caucus.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:41

    Yeah. So there’s one Nikki curious woman but still in kind of a but I’ll vote for Trump. You know, I just don’t think he’s, you know, I I I think we could use somebody younger. I’d like to see a woman president and she’s so great. I just you have to watch the whole group.
  • Speaker 3
    0:05:54

    I want you guys to watch it because there’s this moment where this normie woman is like, I just like to see there be a woman president and everyone else stares blankly at the screen. Like, it’s not like a bunch of
  • Speaker 1
    0:06:03

    other people. Did she like for Hillary
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:04

    Clinton? No. And she she also goes, obviously, it won’t be this time because it’s gonna be trump. Like, they just all believe without any hesitation or equivocation that it’s gonna be dropped and not in a way where they had to assert it, it was just replete throughout their comments. Oh, I just wanna so we asked about the Nikki Haley slavery comments.
  • Speaker 3
    0:06:26

    Only the Nikki curious Normie had even heard about it, and when we asked her can you explain to the group what it was? She was like, well, she said something, but I can’t remember what it was. You know, it was like, She had heard about it basically. Nobody hasn’t even heard about it. So, that I think it it it’s gonna matter maybe in New Hampshire because
  • Speaker 2
    0:06:45

    there wasn’t a lot of talking about the daily gaffe on newsmax where the primary is over, which is what these people are consuming. JBL, I have oh, I have one thing really quick for Anne Seltzer. It’s just a point of personal privilege. If you can ask her about this, even if it’s just in the bonus cut, Like, there’s this thing I want to die about the early states where every time you watch a news segment on, like, the Today show or even on are my beloved MSNBC, you know, where it’s like the news person who’s like on the ground in Iowa and they’re like, the people here in Iowa really want to meet the candidates and shake their hand and that, you know, they they wanna run them through the traps and, you know, and then they interview two people and there’s one person and she’s like, not how we take this seriously. And, like, and that is bullshit.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:28

    It’s been proven so wrong. And I just, I wanna have to hear Anne seltzer say it because Donald Trump does not go
  • Speaker 1
    0:07:36

    meet these people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:37

    He’s not going into their living rooms. They don’t he’s not even doing the debate They’d and and he the governor hates him. All of this, like, old pre two thousand twelve, you know, wisdom about Iowa. How you gotta respect chuck grassley and do the ninety nine count. It’s all bullshit.
  • Speaker 2
    0:07:55

    They don’t care. These people don’t actually care. Maybe two people care about it or twenty or something, but But Donald Trump, it might win overwhelmingly without doing any of that. Are you gonna object to that really quick, sir?
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:06

    Oh, I’m not gonna object to it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:07

    Oh, no. You look like
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:08

    it was.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:08

    No. No.
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:08

    No. I was just when you said grassley, there was this hysterical conversation where, you know, we’re talking about Biden, and they’re all like, He has late stage dementia. It’s elder abuse. You can’t be this age or whatever, and the moderator sort of gently mentions Chuck Craftly being ninety. And people were kinda like, well, yeah, this should probably be Chuck’s last go around, but like, this is it’s not about age.
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:30

    Age is just a number. It’s about how you it’s about your abilities.
  • Speaker 2
    0:08:34

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:34

    And and there was an extensive conversation where they had all parsed out. It is not about his age. Right? Then it doesn’t matter that Trump sold.
  • Speaker 1
    0:08:41

    That’s the trump line.
  • Speaker 3
    0:08:42

    Lots of people had the, like, had this sort of ready at their fingertips about, well, my dad is seventy five and he still does lots of travel and he runs his business and It’s about your mental acuity. And so they have read that is not the talking point that Dems are using about how well trump’s only four years younger. Teflon. Nothing there. Nothing there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:02

    So I wanna go back to the numbers really quick. Again, the the the great and good Iowa caucus that care deeply about meeting these candidates one on one and judging them based on their moral and mental acumen. The biggest victory ever Bob dole, nineteen eighty eight, thirty seven percent to Pat Robinson’s twenty five percent. That’s not the highest ballot number, but that’s the biggest
  • Speaker 1
    0:09:22

    Twelve point. Twelve point. Biggest ever. And he’s from Kansas.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:27

    Next one. This one was the surprise me. Second biggest win was the two thousand caucus. Which was famously the biggest blowout at, you know, the whole part. This was this was where the whole, you know, Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line kind of thing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:41

    It’s George w Bush. The the opponents he’s running against are absurd. It’s Steve Forbes, Alan Keys, Gary Bauer. McCain doesn’t really compete in Iowa. Bush in that in that caucus only gets forty one percent, and Steve Forbes gets thirty one percent.
  • Speaker 2
    0:09:57

    Bush only wins by ten. If that happens, in two Mondays where Nikki Haley or oranda sanctimonious cuts this to forty one thirty one, I mean, that will be a nuclear bomb. Like, the George w Bush blow out victory that everyone looks back on is, like, wasn’t even close? Wasn’t it, like, was the most boring Iowa caucus ever? If they get even if they sniff that margin, people will be like, wow, the comeback kid, you know, like, I mean, do I drop
  • Speaker 1
    0:10:27

    it off my turn? He’s up my th three x then.
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:30

    Yeah. Do you know what ads they knew about? I’m now I am gonna give it all away, but there was, like, so much stuff. Are you asking? What what ads are you seeing?
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:37

    Well, they all know about DeSantis hitting Nikki on China. Right? Like, the ads they know about are the ones of DeSantis and Haley crapping on each other. Like, They are dropping money on each other because it’s about coming in second. Nobody’s even trying to go after Trump.
  • Speaker 3
    0:10:55

    And as a result, Right? They what they knew was just negatives about the second place people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:01

    Can somebody clip that and send it to baseball Dan? Because he was tweeting yesterday how the people who are really responsible for Trump’s win are the ones that were negative towards Ron DeSantis.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:11

    Oh, yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:11:12

    You know, so, so he may be so we should let him know that the voters really actually are hearing about DeSantis’s negativity towards Nikki Haley. So maybe he’s run DeSantis’s at fault. I don’t know. Something to consider.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:22

    Sarah, what did they think about the economy?
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:24

    They think the economy’s bad.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:25

    How bad?
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:26

    So they’re sweet in their way, but there was a number of times where
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:30

    They’re not bigoted No. No. No.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:32

    No. No. No. But people, this is like these men kept being like, well, pardon my French.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:37

    And I know I’m a Christian, and I wanna, you know,
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:39

    I don’t wanna say anything, but this we’re going to hell in a bucket. It’s a lot of that. It’s a lot of,
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:44

    Hell in a bucket. Wow.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:46

    Hell in a bucket.
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:48

    Wow.
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:48

    They’re Christian what do they think
  • Speaker 1
    0:11:49

    about retribution as a Christian virtue? Are they in favor of retribution? Do they think that that’s a Christian virtue?
  • Speaker 3
    0:11:56

    People do say about Trump. They’re like, you know, he’s he says things and he’s he can be mean to people and he’s kind of a Bulwark, but they come back all the time to this idea that he’s a businessman. This was a real theme. He’s a businessman. He gives his he doesn’t take a salary because he has so much money.
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:12

    He has so much power. He doesn’t need to do this. This is and this is not a new thing. But this idea that Trump is the most patriotic person. That he cares about the country so much that he’s giving up his golf and his his power and his money.
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:26

    Yeah, he didn’t golf
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:27

    at all when he was president.
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:28

    He, no, he is doing this And
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:30

    He’s robbing them.
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:31

    You guys somebody says He’s
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:33

    robbing them.
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:34

    Trump brought religion back. Into politics.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:38

    I can’t
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:38

    do this.
  • Speaker 2
    0:12:40

    We gotta move on. Let’s move on. Let’s move on. Let’s move on to
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:42

    the people on the computer. You have
  • Speaker 3
    0:12:42

    to listen to the whole thing. But he’s gonna destroy in Iowa.
  • Speaker 1
    0:12:49

    Alright. So do you guys have any appetite to talk about Nikki Haley? Because I have A third of the way talked myself into believing that, actually, Trump is gonna take her as VP.
  • Speaker 2
    0:13:03

    Yeah, we’re moving into the Tim as always right shirt territory in twenty twenty four. So let’s just go ahead and bring this up so I could swatch you down really fast.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:10

    Alright. Sarah Longwell
  • Speaker 3
    0:13:11

    I wanna hear the best case for this.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:13

    So Trump has a He is transactional. And on the one hand, like, he learned his lesson from Mike Pence because Mike Pence screwed him. And if Carrie Lake had been his vice president in twenty twenty, she would have refused to certify, and then, you know, who knows what happens? On the other hand, Trump does have that bully’s instinct for self preservation. And in twenty sixteen, he knew he had to take Mike Pence, even though he didn’t like the guy because he needed to seal the deal with evangelicals.
  • Speaker 1
    0:13:43

    He understands now that he’s got a swerve on abortion because people don’t like the abortion stuff can’t do the crazy thing. And he needs to win because he doesn’t wanna go to jail. And so if he looks around and becomes convinced that Nikki Haley helps him even at the very margins, more than somebody else would, and she clearly wants it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:10

    I mean,
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:11

    that that woman is ready to do whatever it takes for that job. He knows he can’t trust her. But I think maybe he thinks and we’re seeing Ben in then yesterday. Come out and be like, we’re gonna have a big fight in our hands because they’re gonna try to put Haley on the ticket. Well, I don’t know.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:27

    If Lasavides and Susie Wiles are really do everything we’ve seen suggests that they’ve got a very professionalized operation that’s much more disciplined this time around.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:37

    Some things we’ve seen.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:38

    More than this more this time around than in twenty sixteen or twenty twenty. Yeah. Sure. And if they’ve got the influence to to show Trump the numbers on this. I think maybe he does it.
  • Speaker 1
    0:14:50

    Thought this goes down to everything I’ve thought running up here.
  • Speaker 2
    0:14:53

    This is absurd. I mean, we talked about my trip to Deep USA, and obviously he’s not gonna do everything these people want, but but you cannot choose somebody where there are people in the crowd shouting. She’s demonic. She’s demonic. Lock her up.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:08

    She’s the devil. Like, I just I just I think it’s too far. Like, the Mike Pence thing, people didn’t have strong like, he was not in the Trump brand, but people did not have strong preconceived feelings about him. One way or the other Right? Like the at the base voters.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:22

    Like, trump, yes. He has demonstrated at times to be practical and savvy in a way that other politicians are and he’s willing to zag because he doesn’t actually care about stuff, you know, in the way that other politicians do. But he has never done anything that would threaten the support from his core people. He always knows what his core what his core people are looking for. And and so sometimes you zag some things that he doesn’t, you know, they don’t care about that much or whatever.
  • Speaker 2
    0:15:52

    Right? Like things that aren’t central, but this is too central. And as you said in your triad yesterday, This is all we’re gonna talk about for four months. And and newsmax and Secret Podcast and all of these places are gonna churn and churn and churn and trump’s gonna hear from the crazy people in a circle now at Mar a Lago. You can’t pick her.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:10

    She’s the devil. She’ll she’ll betray you. It’s just it’s just too much time to build. You know, for, you know, against that. And I think that Sarah Longwell last week’s pod offered alternative.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:21

    Like, there are alternatives. You can get most of a Nikki by and Katie Brits or somebody that people don’t have these built in hatreds towards. I mean, these people hated hate Nikki more than they hate like, Joe Biden. Like, they fucking hate Nikki.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:37

    But won’t they turn on a dime if they’re told to? I mean, it’s the other thing. Right? They hate Nikki Haley now, but, I don’t know. Look, the best thing she’s done to help herself is the slavery thing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:16:48

    I’m not even kidding. Like, the the slavery thing is exact they were like, oh, I can’t believe Nikki Haley did that. And I was like, oh, that’s how she’s trying to endear herself to trump and the Maga people. No. And why it was not intentional.
  • Speaker 2
    0:16:59

    It was a clear gap. But, but sure. Sure. But, like,
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:02

    she didn’t run away from it either. Right? I mean, she, you know, she doubled down and I I just think that those people can turn on this much more easily. This is a a fight they look like they wanna have right now, but they’re not gonna die on this hill. Sarah, what are what are your thoughts on this?
  • Speaker 1
    0:17:17

    Am I crazy?
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:18

    Look, I don’t think you’re the craziest because I do think that Trump likes he likes to zag hard. Sometimes. Right? And he likes to shock people and he likes to make people come around to his direction. And I think that JBL is a little bit bright in the sense that I could see a bunch of these voters that I was just listening to, and then I listen to all the time.
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:37

    When he picks Haley, they’ll be like genius move. I don’t like her, but you gotta win women. And he gotta win these swing voters. And, like, they will there are a lot of people who will give him credit. I also agree with myself that there’s a bunch of people you can get that from.
  • Speaker 3
    0:17:52

    Without going full Haley where there is gonna be a ton of resistance from the people that he knows he needs who are his engine, like, daring them to stay home because he needs them to win too. He needs them
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:04

    to win too. There’s nothing that’s gonna make those people stay home.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:06

    The conspiracy world. I think you’re underestimating also. You’re talking about Bannon is like the far edge. But let’s go even farther out there into Tim Pool World, into QAnon Secret Podcast World. Right?
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:16

    Like, these people, if he picks Haley, there are gonna be people out there that that are like, that Trump has switched. The deep state has got him. The deep state is gonna murder him.
  • Speaker 1
    0:18:26

    Believe she’s really Nikki Haley. The deep she’s she’s JFK junior in a mission impossible style, Nikki Haley Mass.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:33

    I because I’m already hearing this at TBSA. They’re worried about this. The VP is important. Because the deep state is gonna kill Trump. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:18:39

    I I hear about this a lot. Like, you know, like, the deep state’s gonna kill him. And then and then whoever he picks is gonna have to be his his sensor. And so if it’s Haley, they are gonna think that the globalists have gotten to him. I’m just Hey,
  • Speaker 3
    0:18:52

    JBL. But here’s my main here’s my main reason that I think you’re not right though. Trump does need to win. He also needs to stay in office forever. Trump, needs somebody pliable in the vice presidential role.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:06

    Like, if Nikki Haley has proven one thing, and this is where I think what Trump is doing right now is akin to what he did to Mitt Romney. He will dangle things, he will embarrass her, he will make her pledge fealty. He may even give her a role somewhere. I just don’t think VP is it. Well, that’s
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:25

    the problem. Right? Cause he can’t fire the VP. Right? He’s an elected constitutional officer.
  • Speaker 1
    0:19:31

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:31

    Right. He can get a Christy gnome or a Katie Brit and, like, Britz, a normie, and so she’ll make normies feel safe. But, like, she’s young and she doesn’t have a huge constituency of her own. And he can sort of control things. I mean, you know, Mike Pence for all his obsequiousness still and because Mary picked up the phone.
  • Speaker 3
    0:19:51

    He had lots of people that he could talk to. He was deeply entrenched in the responsible the remaining responsible world that the Republican party told you cannot do this. And nobody really had his back ultimately, except for like the January sixth committee, like, he knew he couldn’t do it. We’re gonna be in a really different environment next time around.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:11

    So, Tim, I don’t know if you’ve noticed this, but, Donald Trump really killing it in the endorsements. Now it’s important to notice here that, it is not really acquired for anybody to endorse him yet. Like, we haven’t gotten to the first to the first voting. There’s anybody who who really, really didn’t want to endorse Donald Trump, could wait. They they they don’t have to wait until like June, but they could wait another three or four weeks, maybe.
  • Speaker 1
    0:20:39

    But they’re rolling in even in the Senate. Very responsible Republican senators. Do you have any thoughts on this?
  • Speaker 2
    0:20:45

    Doing nothing is an option. Doing nothing is always an option. I mean, it’s not it wouldn’t be my goal. It wouldn’t be what I would call for. But, you know, you don’t have to jump on the trump train right now, especially if you are not worried about any primaries or facing anything.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:00

    I mean, Steve scalise, the leadership in the house, Steve scalise, and Tom Emmer, I’m gonna get to Tom Emer, both endorsed Trump this week. That’s like, why? What is the concern? You know, some people are like, well, you have to do it because otherwise the Magas are gonna come for you. Like, somebody’s gonna get to KKK, Steve scalise is right here in Louisiana and prime area.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:20

    And, like, you know, call him a cucked I that’s not gonna happen. I got that’s not a concern. He doesn’t have to be worried about that. This man this man was shot on a baseball field and he survived it. He has cancer.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:33

    He’s scared of Donald Trump? I know. I he wants Donald Trump. They want him. They decided they wanted him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:39

    This whole conceit that there are people in the house and the senate that don’t want Donald Trump. There’s no evidence of this. There’s nothing. There’s one house member that endorsed Nikki Haley. He’s an insurrectionist.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:51

    Okay. He’s just I think they’re just old pals. Okay. But he was there on January six Ralph Norman. There’s nobody.
  • Speaker 2
    0:21:57

    I my lawler, my gallery, none of these guys, all the names that you would think of. Not nobody is out there, even trying to defeat Donald Trump. And and here we have Tom Emma. This one happened this morning. Gotta talk about Tom Emmer.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:09

    Do you remember Tom? Do you remember his moment and his son?
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:11

    He was, the soon to be speaker designate for seventeen minutes?
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:15

    Yeah. After McCarthy got scalped and Steve scalise loses. Tom emmer, the the normies, so supposed normies, put up Tom emmer. And, here’s the political headline from October twenty fourth, so not even two and a half months ago. I killed him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:31

    How Trump torpedo Tom Emma speaker bit?
  • Speaker 1
    0:22:34

    It was ten weeks ago. That was ten weeks ago.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:38

    Okay. Here’s here’s what timer did. I didn’t even I didn’t even remember this. You know, scroll down here. Let’s find it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:22:43

    So, okay, here it is. Trump shared a post on truth social from far right activist Laura Lumer, bashing Emma as a all caps communist enabler. President Trump doesn’t support Tom, Emma, and neither should you. So Trump thinks Emma is a communist. Okay.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:04

    All Emma has ever wanted was the speaker’s gavel. You know, this whole career, you know, he’s like, I’ve been trying to grow rise up the ranks. This moment, it fell into his lap. And Trump kills it, prevents him from becoming speaker. Ten weeks later, he’s putting out a statement that’s like I want Donald Trump for president.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:22

    There’s still other people in the race.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:24

    There’s still other people in the race.
  • Speaker 2
    0:23:25

    I mean, I mean, Sarah doesn’t think of me, but Bill Crystal was on the YouTube last night. I’ve been like, you know, who know? That things happen? Like, you could still go out there and campaign for Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley. You could do nothing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:36

    Do nothing.
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:37

    You could do that. I Will Saletan, Bill, locked in this morning, and I was like, I need you to watch group. I just I need you to, like, get your head.
  • Speaker 1
    0:23:44

    I need you
  • Speaker 3
    0:23:45

    to listen to some voters so you can get a because last night, this well, And here’s the thing. I even look, I sit on TV yesterday that if there’s a five percent chance, which I think about what it is, then Nikki Haley, can win. Like, it’s it’s okay. I do think you should try to do something to advance that, but I also think you have to be clear eyed about what we’re facing here. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:24:04

    It’s okay to dream and to and to work hard and to do something. But the fact that not just how many endorsements Trump has, But how many endorsements everybody else doesn’t have? Yeah. Nobody’s endorsing anybody else.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:16

    No. And the political strategy here, I take the all that. But if we just take out the morality of this and and just how sick it is, like that that here we are eight years after January you know, twenty sixteen and trump’s strength within the party is a thousand acts more even after the Muslim ban after January sixth. Like, partake out the moral as a political strategy. Like, what does Tom ever want?
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:40

    He’s from Minnesota. He’s not gonna be the gov. I it’s not like he’s gonna need Trump’s support in a primary in a statewide race. It’s not like Trump is gonna appoint a communist enabler to be the Secret Podcast state. Like, house majority whip is the end of the road for Tom Emma.
  • Speaker 2
    0:24:56

    Right? He’s not angling for anything else. So when when the consultants are we gotta do this. You gotta stay on the good side of the base? No, you don’t.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:05

    Like, Trump ball has a limited bandwidth for these truth social tweets. If time ever just did nothing, like it’s what you want about Chip Roy. I fucking hate Chip Roy. And, like, he sent out a statement yesterday that was, like, the basically implied that he’s for seceding from the union. So it’s but but he is out there campaigning for Ron DeSantis.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:22

    So credit were due. He’s endorsed Ron DeSantis and he’s actually campaigning. He’s not he didn’t just put his name on paper. He’s a gun on TV. He’s being a surrogate.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:29

    And and Trump is coming after him. So, and and Chipboy might someday wanna run for senate in in Texas. So, like, there’s something to be said for that. That’s not the situation. Like, you could just do nothing.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:41

    Did it endorse Nikki and then not say anything? And trump is like a fly. Like he he gets mad at whoever that was the last person in his face saying something that wasn’t about how he’s the god king. Right? Like, there’s no there was there’s no political risk to doing nothing or to just kind of endorsing Nikki Haley.
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:57

    There’s none, and he’s doing it anyway. Can I
  • Speaker 3
    0:25:59

    tell you? Can I answer this?
  • Speaker 2
    0:25:59

    Because he’s a fucking gimp. Is that the answer? Because he’s the gimp?
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:03

    Maybe. But here’s I had forgotten too about, man, these news cycles. They last, the life of a fruit fly.
  • Speaker 1
    0:26:12

    But I had
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:12

    forgotten about the tweet. And I bet so I don’t know if you saw this story, but the main secretary of state who wrote the brief recently about why she was gonna remove Trump from the ballot. She got swabid Mhmm. Recently. You know what that is?
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:27

    Where they they fake call in the SWAT team to your house know. And she
  • Speaker 2
    0:26:31

    got swarmed recently too, I think.
  • Speaker 3
    0:26:34

    Yeah. My guess is is that ever since Trump went after Emma that there are some people in Emma’s home state that have decided he is a cuck who needs to be taken care of. I bet he has been getting death threats For the last two months, I bet he has been getting turned on and booed at local GOP meetings. I bet his life has been bad, and I bet endorsing Trump is meant to get a lot of people off his back. That’s why he did it.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:01

    I appreciate that. Okay. I would like to know, but I think the time ever had a really nice fucking Christmas in his big house in the suburbs. It’s probably a white Christmas in Minnesota and he had his family all around him and and he’s the majority with. I
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:13

    see what you did there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:27:15

    Maturity whip. And I think that and I think that his life is wonderful and brilliant and good and he is just a fucking pussy coward. That’s what I that’s my opinion. So I don’t know. We’ll see Tom can let us know if it’s really he’s being swatted or He’s really worried about the same.
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:31

    I’m not even saying it’s a justification. I’m just saying
  • Speaker 1
    0:27:33

    I think I think I think you and
  • Speaker 3
    0:27:35

    I don’t agree on this, actually. I just I think menace is an underappreciated sort of like something in the ether that is hanging over the decision making of a lot of these Republicans I’m not saying it justifies their behavior, but I do think it explains more than people think. I think sometimes we sit around being like, what could it possibly be? And I’ve actually think Republicans who step out of line get it much worse than Democrats from, like, Trump’s people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:02

    I think he’s just wearing a give mask and he has no no backbone. I’m not
  • Speaker 3
    0:28:06

    sure they’re mutually exclusive, actually.
  • Speaker 2
    0:28:08

    Maybe not. The
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:09

    what is interesting to me is that this whole dynamic like, has slipped on its head from the way it used to be. Right? So George H. W. Bush’s president, and he wants to pass Bulwark, x y z.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:22

    And he knows that he’s gotta get all of the Republican house members on board with him and he’s gotta make sure that he’s made nice with them, and he hasn’t alienated any of those guys. And so that’s like a thing that they wind up working on. And it’s like the power goes that like, well, these how members have some power. And, you know, like, I have carrots I can offer them. I don’t really have that much of a stick because I wanna do things.
  • Speaker 1
    0:28:46

    And Trump gets to have the dynamic flipped because he doesn’t want to do anything except hold power. Right? And this is the Once you take away the idea of there being a legislative agenda, and you just wanna be the strong man who holds power and then can, like, do stuff to hurt people people like down the line from you in your party in the legislature, they are completely beholden to you. They have no leverage over the chief executive whatsoever. That’s why this is the party that didn’t have a platform last time around except, we wanna do what the god king wants us to do.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:22

    It’s really pernicious. This is what authoritarianism looks like. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:25

    It’s really pernicious. And I and I find it just absolutely repulsive. I’m never anyone that has endorsed Donald Trump in this primary.
  • Speaker 1
    0:29:32

    Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:32

    I’ve expanded my Never Trump. I’m never anyone that has that has endorsed him. It’s just absolutely despicable and it’s funny. We have Josh Green on the Sunday show this weekend. I was just reading his book and the Jimmy Carter dynamic versus Trump is kind of hilarious compared to what you just said.
  • Speaker 2
    0:29:47

    Like, Jimmy is like totally run through the ringer by the conservative you know, Democrats in Congress, and, you know, and has no ability to wield any power over them. And, like, they’re forcing things down his throat and you know, poor Jimmy Carter.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:01

    The other difference is that, again, other presidents wanted to accomplish things. Yeah.
  • Speaker 2
    0:30:07

    He had actually tried
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:08

    doing it. Only wants to dominate his party. And avoid jail. I mean, he would like for Donald Trump, his hierarchy of needs, right? It it begins with have to dominate the Republican Party.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:19

    And after that, it’ll be very nice if he could become president again as well, and he had that power to his to his chip stack. But the truth is even that is a nice to have, not a must have. Like, he wants to own the Republican party like a mob boss owns an organization. And, this is what you get out of that. Alright.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:38

    We gotta talk about that school in Cambridge. Harvin president Claudine Gaye has resigned and of immense importance to the entire republic. And so we have to talk about it. Here’s the thing. Both sides are right.
  • Speaker 1
    0:30:59

    I’m gonna both sides it for you guys. Are you ready?
  • Speaker 2
    0:31:01

    Yeah, please.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:03

    The Anti DeI, Chris Ruffos of the world are right that it is bad for a university president to do plagiarism. It is worse for University of President to be really bad on the anti Semitism happening on their own campus. The people on the left who are sort of anti anti Claudine gay, are correct that the prime motivation of the people who have been on a crusade to get her have absolutely nothing to do with academic integrity or any of that shit. They just wanna get her because She’s a black woman in power. I’m sorry.
  • Speaker 1
    0:31:43

    But that’s that’s why this is. And, the real answer is that this is This is Harvard, and the job of the university president is just to raise an assload of money all day, every day, day after day, and anything that happens that impedes your ability to raise tons of money for your institution, is a professional liability. And so she was going to have to go. And I’m sorry. Harvard is part of the problem in America.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:14

    And why we feel like we have to pick sides on this when, like, Claudine Gay was part of the problem because Harvard is part of the problem. Bad. Bad, all bad.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:23

    I have a quiz for you, JBL. Are you ready? Nathan Poussey. Mhmm. Neil Rodenstein.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:30

    Lawrence Bachau. Which one of those people has been Harvard president prior to Claudine Gay?
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:36

    Bachau was, wasn’t he?
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:38

    And all of them were. All of them. And Ruben, I know the root thing was well.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:42

    Derek Boak. No. Absolutely. It’s it’s funny to say that. Yeah.
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:47

    I used to read a lot of his his writings. Derek Bach, we’re probably the last You are
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:51

    ruining Tim’s bit right now by now.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:53

    No. It isn’t.
  • Speaker 3
    0:32:53

    It’s fun. Derek
  • Speaker 1
    0:32:54

    Bach was probably the last president of Harvard who was a genuine intellectual. Is what I’m saying.
  • Speaker 2
    0:32:59

    Yeah. Oh, really? That’s that’s rude to Andrew Preston, Peabody, and Cornelius Conway felton. He’s fucking stew like, who the fuck cares? Who cares?
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:08

    It was the president of Harvard. Like, I literally the only reason I’d ever known a Harvard president before this was because Larry Summers was so rude to the Winkle Vye in the social Bulwark. Okay. Like, that was it. Grumpy hair Larry Summers was in there.
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:21

    And and otherwise, it’s like, who cares for the president, Harvard? Okay. I’m with you on the way they handled the anti semitism thing was terrible and plagiarism is bad. But, like, isn’t this a Harvard Crimson article? Like, why is this on the top of the New York Times every day?
  • Speaker 2
    0:33:37

    Why does every Republican senator and congress person have to have an app have to have an opinion about this? Like, they are self correcting just like Stanford’s self corrected. Remember? Stanford had the president that also, you know, committed, some fraudulent behavior on the papers that he had written, and it was it was, you know, Peter Baker and Susan Glasser’s kid that, like, called him out on it. Like, and and wrote about it for the Stanford newspaper.
  • Speaker 3
    0:34:01

    Like And the Penn, Penn president stepped down after the after the hearing.
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:06

    Just like in the Republican Party, the people who did a coup, all realized that what they had done was very, very shameful, and they’re gonna remove themselves from politics and public life. Because they
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:17

    Did that happen?
  • Speaker 1
    0:34:18

    And the ones who didn’t, the Republican Party, the antibodies within the party swarmed together and and took care of Business.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:27

    Did that happen? No. It didn’t happen. Oh. This is self correcting.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:31

    Like, I, like, these are these are examples of people self correcting. Had Harvard had the Pro Hamas thing on Cambridge Square, whatever the fuck they call it. I don’t I I don’t care. Like, had they had a Pro Hamas rally and had the president of Harvard gone out there and put up a power fist and said, hell yeah. And had they stormed one of the campus buildings and stabbed a Jewish professor and killed them.
  • Speaker 2
    0:34:57

    And, you know, and then the Harvard professor had come back out and said, I’m proud of the great and good patriots out there on the mall of Harvard Square, and then had the Harvard president state president and regained power and actually kicked out the people within Harvard that that tried to push back on her, the professors, then I would be like, you know, I on the next level podcast and be like, I’m really concerned about what’s happening at Harvard. Okay? Like, I think that we probably need to do something here. But that is not what is happening. Alright?
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:27

    That is not what happened. So sure. Like, would she have been kicked out and had some conservative journalists like, looked into plagiarism history. Maybe not. Maybe are there other school presidents that committed plagiarism that we haven’t heard about?
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:41

    That are white men probably. Like, do I care? No. Is is college so hostile? To the open thought now that conservatives are not welcome there?
  • Speaker 2
    0:35:54

    I don’t know. Here’s what I do know, Bill Johnson, congressman, From Ohio just left Congress today. And where’s he going? He’s gonna be the president of Youngstown State. Where has been SaaS right now?
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:06

    He’s the president of Florida. Like, it seems to me like the free market is fucking working in colleges. And, you know, Frank Luntz is out there tweeting like people aren’t gonna go to Harvard now. Great. Don’t go to Harvard.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:18

    Go to Florida. Ben Sass is the president of Florida. If you I I’m sure you can get a great education If you’re, if you’re the type of kid, no one’s gonna go to work. To learn class that wants to go to class, they’re great professors of Florida. Like, Go to another school.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:32

    I don’t care. Like, go to Claremont. There are a million fucking colleges in this country. Why is this a big deal? Sarah Longwell me.
  • Speaker 2
    0:36:40

    Why is this a big deal?
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:41

    I think you guys are kinda misdiagnosing this whole thing. Great. Okay. So I’m gonna I’m gonna let’s back up and start with This isn’t about Claudine Gay precisely. It started as something much bigger, which is that there is a story around Israel and Hamas and a conflict on college campuses that became a central news story.
  • Speaker 3
    0:36:59

    Right? And so this is an outgrowth of that central news story. It’s not that people are just decided to focus on Harvard. Right? There was a bunch of other things leading up to it, including a whole bunch of incidents on college campuses, which wraps into this is an explanation more than than just pushback, but wraps into what is a long held concern among conservatives about the state of higher education what’s happening there and that extends not just to conservatives and sort of ideologues, but also to more normies who are concerned about what their kids learn on college campuses, the activist professors, etcetera.
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:31

    So this is an extension or a microcosm, whatever you wanna call it, of a much bigger battle. Okay? And Claudia Gaye is a is a casualty in that battle in part of her own doing. Like, I don’t think that we should ever And this is I just think just because many of the people who are attacking her relentlessly are doing so because they got something in their sights. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:37:54

    And I don’t think it’s just because she’s a black woman in power. I think it it it wraps into all of it. I think that’s not nothing. I don’t think that’s not a part of it. But I think it includes the idea of getting scalps from these universities.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:06

    It’s about going after elites. It’s about what they think these institutions are doing to our culture and our kids. It’s a much bigger thing than that. Right? And so they want the scalps of these people.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:15

    And that’s why the plagiarism thing became a story. Now, the fact is though, It would never have become a story if the Israel thing hadn’t happened, and there wasn’t this sort of bigger conversation. But once it did and once it was uncovered, you do have to say, well, that’s wrong. Right? That’s wrong, and it matters from a credibility standpoint both for the institution, but also for us as a society having standards.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:36

    Because standards matter, intellectual rigor matters. Oh, right. Right is still right. Wrong is still wrong. Doesn’t matter if the people accusing her of bad faith.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:45

    So It is fine. I think for them to pursue accountability against her.
  • Speaker 1
    0:38:51

    Those things. You’re okay with this cancellation? This canceled culture of her. Sorry.
  • Speaker 3
    0:38:55

    I think that when people violate the form, I’m not done. I let you finish. When people when people violate the standards of their Tushions and they get held accountable, that’s fine. Even if the people who are who are pursuing the accountability are are pieces of crap like Chris Ruffo. Now here’s where the thing falls apart for me, which is if we care about standards and presidents of institutions matter because they set standards for us culturally?
  • Speaker 1
    0:39:19

    Ding ding ding.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:20

    Any person who has pursued Claudine gay relentlessly but who supports Donald Trump should not be taken seriously. If you can find a way to justify anything about Donald Trump, and that includes sort of the frank luntz route of it. Like, he’s not a pro trump guy. He’s not go to the White House help him out, you know, maybe do some messaging for the Republicans be on McCarthy’s side. However, you wanna participate in that institution and then claim some moral high ground because this is this is what it’s about.
  • Speaker 3
    0:39:50

    There is a much deeper thing where Republicans wanna be on a moral playing field where they can have some high ground because they haven’t been on any moral high ground for a really long time and they think they got the moral high ground and they to some degree because even the antipathy that you guys feel towards these institutions is a pretty mainstream antipathy that people feel so they can work off of a lot of reexisting stuff that makes people say Chris Ruffo was right. Look at the good work the free beacon did, taking this thing down. But unless those people also pursue, the president of the United States who’s done a coup, who’s had no moral standards whatsoever. I mean, plagiarism, I mean, see plagiarism is still wrong. Right?
  • Speaker 3
    0:40:30

    It’s still a bad thing. We should not say that it is not wrong, but we should acknowledge that also cheating on all your wives, grabbing people, sexual assaults, lying on your taxes, doing a coup, all all these things, those are are are wrong and also in the hierarchy of wrongness, both in its cumulative nature, as well as its hierarchical nature, are worse. And so you should never take a person seriously who pursues Claudine Gaye, who is not also pursuing Trump. There’s like a handful of people who are willing to do both. Those are the only people worth listening to.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:03

    Sebastian clipped that for the YouTube shorts because that was an outstanding rant.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:07

    Oh, it’s good. I agree with everything. I agree to solve the whole second part of that, but I I just I need to go back to the first part, which is I just I don’t think that they’re actually trying to reform these higher education institutions and good faith.
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:19

    No. No. No. They’re trying to turn
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:20

    them down. I don’t and it’s like, oh, for what? And it’s not they want these scalps that’s like for what? Right? It’s like to win this narrative battle that you’re talking about, the second part of
  • Speaker 1
    0:41:33

    your answer.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:33

    Right? Like, it’s not for it’s not as if They have other thoughts for how Harvard should conduct itself. It’s not like they’re trying to put forth Bill Crystal, which who I am. Harvard president. I think they should put him.
  • Speaker 2
    0:41:43

    It’s either to try and put forth Harvey Mansfield or somebody that has a more of a conservative ethos It’s like, who do they think’s gonna replace Claudine Gay? Some other fucking Will Saletan. Right? Because these guys, all they do is demonize higher education All they do is demonize elite universe. You know, there was a little period in the in the early twenty tens where, you know, there were all these, like, conservative into what we’re talking about, institutional reform, who’s the one guy that everybody was talking about in that in that JBL, everybody that was, he was that, oh, gosh, it’s driving me crazy.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:15

    It’ll it’ll come to
  • Speaker 1
    0:42:15

    be ours. Yuval.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:16

    Yuval. Thank you. Everybody’s in Yuval. We need institutional reform. We need to get inside these institutions and do a better job and demonstrate and and provide an alternate, you know, path to the DUI ESG, whatever.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:30

    I think none of them are doing that. They actively dislike and hate the people that they see as their, you know, culture war opposition. In these elite institutions. They don’t have any interest in trying to reform them or make them better or they don’t care about students or trying to, like, have their experience be about Right? I mean, say what you want about, Ben SaaS, I’ve said, plenty terrible.
  • Speaker 2
    0:42:52

    At least he said, okay, I’m gonna check out and go to Florida, and I’m gonna try to make this one institution better. So I would say I would say, okay, then then do that, then then try to reform these institutions. That’s not what this is. Like it’s culture war garbage that they’re trying to tear people down on the other side as part of some big, never ending, but never ending online battle. Like, that’s that’s all this really is.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:14

    And to that, I’m kind of like, I’m sorry. I can’t care about that. I just can’t. And I think that, like, the students at Harvard you know, the again, I go back to the market. Like, Harvard got more applications last year.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:26

    I wouldn’t look this up than ever in history. Double from twenty fourteen, eight years ago. So you’re telling me like these institutions are so corrupted and so awful? And and they’re not learning anything. There’s no value anymore, and it’s deI, racist, and, you know, reverse racism nonsense.
  • Speaker 2
    0:43:44

    Then why did sixty thousand some odd people apply when there are thousands of colleges in the country? Things that Harvard really that bad? Are they that bad that we gotta tear everything down and insult everybody? Or could they be a little better? Could we try to just put people into the institutions that we think would be a little more judicious?
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:01

    Like, cause I would be on board for that. But I’m that’s not what any of these people are doing. They’re arsonists.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:07

    I mean, I do wanna ask one thing though. Which do you guys think is the worst sin, the plagiarism or the failure to handle campus anti Semitism. Because for me, I actually think And and I would have been perfectly fine if Claudine Ye had resigned, like, the day after the hearing with Elise Defonic, the the way the Penn president did. Because that I mean, I mean only is a moral case, which is wrong in terms of, like, which is wrong for the job professionally. We could talk about different.
  • Speaker 1
    0:44:35

    But I think that’s much worse. And the plagiarism, like, it it it does bother me a little bit. It is a little bit like al capone for tax fraud, that
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:44

    You can’t be the president of harvard and plagiarized. I don’t I it’s you can’t be the president of Harvard. How do you kick out other kids for plagiarism if you’ve plagiarized? So, like, I get that. I get that.
  • Speaker 2
    0:44:54

    I just is it a front page New York Times story every day? Do we need did we need Congress to get involved?
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:00

    Well, it is because we have one major political party that wants to talk about this and nothing else. Right? It’s like, why why do we have so many stories about the the U Pen Transswimmer. Right. Why was that in the New York Times all the time?
  • Speaker 1
    0:45:15

    It was because we have it one political one of our two major political parties has decided to make that a story. And when one political party decides to make something a story, they can do it.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:24

    Yeah. And this is where my greatest frustration with Democrats lie. This is how Republicans, they are able to create their own echo chambers to make these narratives stick in a way that, like, I don’t know. Democrats either have neither the the fortitude nor the interest nor the communications disciplined to be like, let’s all talk about how the economy is improving, and we all just hit since then, it’s it is everybody’s like squirrel. And and and everybody feels the need to opine on this, but I also I part of my p pushback is this idea that it’s like just a thing happening at Harvard.
  • Speaker 3
    0:45:58

    I don’t. I do think it’s part of a bigger cultural story. But I also think that there tremendous discipline on the right around making these narratives the equivalent of presidential narratives to the point where people are like, we’ll have to vote for a Trump because Claudine Gay plagiarized some stuff. Like, you know, like and it’s like that is the the the there is there is so much this is the endemic of the corruption on the left and this is why I have to support Trump. And then just like, okay, admit then that none of this is about standards or maintaining standards for you.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:33

    Yeah. Sure. It is a cultural thing that’s happening everywhere. But again, like, Republicans aren’t trying to fix it. You know?
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:39

    Like, nobody gets mad at Democrats. Nobody it’s like Democrats are like, oh, the evangelical church is not more liberal. Right? It’s because like No Democrats are trying to fix it. Like, like, if all you do is insult people.
  • Speaker 2
    0:46:51

    Like Republicans don’t care about high rage. Like, this is all it’s all bullshit. All they do is they make they don’t try to appeal people that are in higher education. All they do is fucking insult and mock and deride people in these institutions. This has
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:05

    been true. Right? So which is in the nineteen sixties. But hold
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:08

    on. God and man at Yale.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:10

    This is like actually a deep and ingrained part of what it means to be a conservative, which is that you feel that the institutions are against you. Right? Like, with the grievance against mainstream and elite institutions, keeping you out is the reason that in the last twenty five years, we’ve seen a bunch of new institutions built on the right by people who feel aggrieved. Right? So why that’s why you have these new universities popping up that are meant to cater specifically to conservatives because they are trying to push back against the dominant mainstream culture Fox News was an answer to the idea that conservatives felt shut out of this sort of mainstream institution of elite media.
  • Speaker 3
    0:47:48

    That’s why now we have these bifurcated But
  • Speaker 2
    0:47:50

    it’s all fake. It’s fake grievance. Who’s actually been cut out of elite universities? Not conservative white people? Let’s not who’s been fucking cut out of elite universities.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:00

    Maybe they haven’t felt don’t know. I got to what do you
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:03

    mean in terms of attendance or in terms
  • Speaker 1
    0:48:04

    of in terms
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:05

    of professors? Like, I actually think I mean, I
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:07

    in terms of attendance. Okay.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:09

    In terms of attendance, but in terms of who the professors are, in terms of the ideas that dominate these institutions, because
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:14

    no elite Republicans wanna go be professors. They didn’t decide they could all go do that. Look, the University of Chicago has conservative professors. George Mason has conservative professors. Florida, there you have plenty of options if you wanna go somewhere.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:25

    It’s is it bad to go somewhere where you have a liberal professor and you argue with them. All my professors argued with me about free market stuff at GED. I didn’t feel. I was in a grown ass.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:34

    I did that way about Kenya too, but I just the idea that we would just I don’t I don’t know that you can just gloss over the idea that, like, ninety percent of faculty at these institutions now are very liberal and progressive.
  • Speaker 2
    0:48:46

    Actually, Donald Trump was there for president.
  • Speaker 3
    0:48:48

    And that there is a lot more ideology as opposed to sort of the deep excavation of ideas. Like, that shift on college campuses, I think is a bugaboo of conservatives for a real and useful reason.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:00

    I can’t believe either of you would ever have a conversation. No. I’m just saying I I I never once spoke to any of my college professors, in any capacity, either inside or outside the classroom. An idea that you could have a discussion or a conversation with them is astonishing to me. I have a question, though.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:19

    JD Vance. Josh, what’s his face? From all of them. Josh Holly. When their children reach college age, are they gonna go to Will Saletan Liberty?
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:29

    Do you think? What do you think their their kids are gonna pack off to maybe do a school in Cambridge or a school in New Haven?
  • Speaker 2
    0:49:35

    How did Josh Holly manage to get out of Yale in Stanford? Turn out like this. It’s just unbelievable. I thought that the professors
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:42

    are so strong. It could be a little bit more exclusionary. They could prevented some of the worst people in American politics from taking over position of power. If, you know, this is it’s like with Twitter in the old days. Like, oh, Twitter’s shadow banning and banning.
  • Speaker 1
    0:49:57

    No. Twitter wasn’t banning enough people. And we should have done something to keep Ted Cruz and Donald Trump and Josh Holly and JD Vance and all the rest of these, like, fascist crazy, horrible, dangerous people out. Of elite circles.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:12

    I’m sorry, but this is this is sort of the answer to something Tim was saying, which is like, if they’re so bad, why are they getting double the amount of applications, whatever? And it’s like, because of sort of different gross thing, which is just the clout chasing, in our society now where it is much less about I wanna go to the most intellectually rigorous place that’s gonna prepare me to do this intellectually serious thing that I really need to do. I think that’s still there in a lot of ways, but there’s also I think tremendous cloud chasing hour, it’s, like, very important, you know, to say that you went to Harvard versus do it because there’s lots of other places you could go to get a really good education in that aren’t Harvard. Even a top notch perfect one, like Kenyan College. Sure.
  • Speaker 3
    0:50:52

    Go to Kenya.
  • Speaker 2
    0:50:52

    But I agree with that. But that’s what I but my point is, like, my point is not that there are not anything that couldn’t be better at any of these institution. I just I get so sick of the grievance that it’s like things are so bad. Harvard is so terrible. They’re turning our kids into communists and it’s a reverse racist hellscape.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:09

    And, oh my god, it’s got record p people that wanna go there. It’s like real are we sure? It’s that bad? Like, are things really not bad? Or the kit are You know, are our institutions so fucking corrupted?
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:20

    I just hate this populist bullshit about how our institutions are so corrupt they’re more corrupted now than they were in nineteen fifty. I’d like to go back. I’d like to go back and start doing some plagiarism, test. On people that were writing papers running these universities before the internet showed up where you could check it easily. Because I gotta tell you if I go back to my President of Harvard list.
  • Speaker 2
    0:51:40

    I bet I could find some plagiarism from James b Conan nineteen thirty three to nineteen fifty three. I I just I I just I don’t I think that it’s all a little bit
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:48

    you keep James b Conan’s name out of your voice. Alright, guys. Good show. Great. Treadily long show.
  • Speaker 1
    0:51:56

    We spent way more time on Harvard than we probably should have. If you’re gonna be in, San Cisco, come and hang out with us in San Francisco on what’s today? January
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:09

    eighteenth. Eighteenth. It’s a Thursday. It’s
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:11

    Thursday.
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:12

    It’s a Thursday.
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:12

    Thursday night. It’ll be a good time. Comwolf Club’s a very nice place. It’ll
  • Speaker 2
    0:52:16

    be on the heels of the Nikki Haley surge in Iowa.
  • Speaker 1
    0:52:19

    Afterwards, Tim can take us a lot to a gay bar. It’ll it’s gonna be amazing. Amazing. Guys, we’ll see you next week.
  • Speaker 3
    0:52:27

    Bye.
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