This week on WTF 2.0, Van Jones joins JVL to talk Trump’s first 100 days, what comes next and how we get out of the fix we’re in.
WTF 2.0 is a pop-up show on Substack during the first 100 days of second Trump administration.
Watch previous episodes, here.
As always: Watch, listen, and leave a comment.
So, use your imagination now. What worse things are coming?
This was a great exchange of useful insights as to how we are now where we are with Trump. I had not known about Van Jones or heard him speak before this. He is a very impressive articulate thinker. JVL and Mr. Jones made a simple conversation an over-the-top great discourse of analyzing yesterday to find today. Thanks so much.
Guys, this was absolutely inspiring. How about doing it more often??
This was great, Van was refreshingly candid in his reflections about how the left got here. It’s a tone I rarely hear when everyone is thinking twice about who they might be offending or where they are headed career wise (still!!). There’s so much more to be said about how the billionaires are controlling both left and right. It’s so obvious and public on the right now, but ask anyone in the nonprofit sector and they’ll tell you how the rug has been pulled in many areas at the whim of the lefty rich since the election too. Anyone who can chart a way forward while flipping off the rich on both sides is the future.
OMG, the closing question and answer really woke me. What I heard was; we (Blacks) continue to believe in the system, via the Founders' DREAM of equality. According to Van , you whites ( with your untouchable-privilege-my words) , now know better what we feel; a lifetime in the USA without due process, for example. But we have learned to believe in the 'dream' while enduring the opposite. I will continue to ponder this stunning reality and my own naivete, in search a greater understanding. I am deeply inspired by this exchange, JVL and Van Jones, thank you.
Elon was radicalized by COVID restrictions in California. He wanted to keep his Fremont factory open and the state said no. Lorena Gonzalez in particular was furious because his workers were primarily Latino and she felt he was putting them at risk for his profits.
Come on JVL, Obama broke their brains because we elected a black man. For me, the last 10 years was really eye-opening because it was so out in the open. The system has always favored white men, but this was dragging it out in the open and daring us to say that it was wrong. I loved the expressions on Van's face and the tolerance that he showed, but I guess he's had practice. More like this please.
Extremely thought-provoking, especially the “black” perspective. I have thought about this so much and Van put the words around it. Thank you.
Regarding the "rebels" leaving the Democratic Party, is that really a problem? These people were not driven out by "cancel culture", they left because they are in large part libertarians who align more with with the "selfishness is a virtue" Republican libertarians and not with the "compassionate" Clinton Democrat libertarians.
Libertarianism is a false ideology: a) markets do not solve problems nor regulate themselves and (b) wealth does not trickle down. These are facts proven by history: regulation was implemented because of problems caused by the market, such as workers being hurt or killed at work and environmental degradation and the income tax with its high upper marginal rates creating our inclusive middle class.
We need a progressive Democratic Party that fights for the middle and lower classes and a sustainable economy that ends the destruction of our current extractive economy. Let the libertarians leave, good riddance, because they will simply make the GOP worse.
Totally agree - do we really want those "rebels" promoting there ideas on our side? They left because there bigotry and elitism fit well in the current democratic party.
Wow, what an interesting discussion. Big thumbs up for Van Jones. Thank you!
Thank you for mentioning that SNL skit! Appreciate Van Jones mentioning sober, but idealistic! Connects to older Bulwark articles about the drainpool/Southern racist authoritarianism being a tool that the Republican Party thought they could use, but then got contaminated with.
Socialists stand up to capitalists. We're not afraid of them and we do not "admire" their wealth.
Eeeeek this makes me so happy!
Van Jones verbalized something which I think we all knew, but he also explains the consequences for it Paying a high price to dissent shuts down the innovation of our culture. Chase out the rebels ... the outmigration of the rebels. Van Jones gives such an amazing explanation for what the left created. His analysis is so, so, so on target.
We may be too late to focus on reality i.e. science. The Don and The Chainsaw and the MAGApublicans have destroyed the fabric of the federal government. It took the New Deal and decades to develop our former government and just 100 days for MAGA to burn it all down.
Not only that a good chunk of our country believe this shit as a result of the FOX propaganda and repeated lies over and over and over ...
This destruction has been underway since the New Deal and took off during Reagan. The following offers some facts for your perusal. It is worth the read and watch to understand how we got here.
https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/powellmemo/
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2017/the-people-vs-america/phone/index.html
https://icjs.org/charismatic-revival-fury/
Powell memo 1971 Paul Harvey blue collar radio Reagan "say no ill of other republicans and I'm from the Government Newt "no retreat" Gingrich Clinton the best republican the democrats ever elected Limbaugh democrats are evil all american voters are spectators. So here we are.
Franz - to expand on your point:
https://scholarlycommons.law.wlu.edu/powellmemo/
https://interactive.aljazeera.com/aje/2017/the-people-vs-america/phone/index.html
https://icjs.org/charismatic-revival-fury/
I pray for heart attack or stroke
I can’t with how great this podcast is! Thank you both-am literally going to sleep better tonight knowing that some people are still intelligent, insightful, humble, kind, and just INTERESTING. You are both incredible.
. What great conversation and insight. This makes me want to write. Inspires me.
The Onion had an article and video quite a few years ago about a young white woman who was going to trial. Her crime was such she would be tried as a black man. She demanded to be tried as a photogenic white chick!
Funny, but ouch.
This started out as a great conversation but I got to the part about how we must acknowledge the kernel of truth in what RFK has been saying and had to pause to write this comment because this is just so, so wrongheaded. I hate to break it to you, but there is no kernel of truth. If the goal is to lead with science, the beliefs that RFK is espousing are fundamentally incompatible with the stated goal. The lies about how unsafe our food is, how unsafe our drugs are, how unsafe our cosmetics and personal care products are, rising rates of cancer, etc. have been repeated so thoroughly for so long by so many people that even the “scientific” among us have assumed it to be true, and Van Jones appears to be taking it as a fact, which is both wrong and dangerous.
I strongly recommend Dr. Jessica Knurick and Dr. Adrian Chavez for actual scientific information about diet and nutrition, Dr. Jess Steier of Unbiased Science for public health expertise, and Jen Novakovich of The Eco Well for information about the cosmetics industry. These individuals are truly doing god’s work trying to get the truth out there, not because they are downplaying the challenges we face, but because we are focused on the wrong things while the real issues continue to go unaddressed, and the consequences are literally costing lives. The kind of vitriol they face from both liberal bourgeoise bohemian moms in San Jose and Bible-thumping MAGAs in the rust belt is truly astounding, all because they are trying to get the truth is complex and people don’t want complexity. They want easy answers.
As for Michelle Obama, she was demonized because she WAS going after the real causes of rising cancer rates: unhealthy diets full of sugar and fat that lack nutrients and fiber, combined with a sedentary lifestyle. The work she did was a genuine threat to power, and the solutions she offered provided few opportunities for grifting.
RFK, on the other hand, doesn’t have a sincere bone in his body. He’s not a “rebel,” he’s a grifter like the rest of them. He makes millions off his anti-vaxx scam at the expense of people’s lives. He is going to get thousands of people killed by convincing them that beef tallow is healthier than canola oil. It’s hard to even guess what his final death count will be by the time his reign of terror is over. So no, Republicans have not identified a real problem and offered a shitty solution—the whole thing is an end-to-end grift. They are literally making up problems to justify gutting and crippling the FDA, USDA, CDC, NIH, and other agencies that actually do keep us healthy. You might think you’re countering them, but you’re actually perpetuating the same lies they tell. Once again, Democrats need to stop letting Republicans control the narrative on everything and go on the offense instead of constantly assuming a reactive position.
And don’t even get me started on Tulsi Gabbard. It sounds like you might want to read up on her background as a homophobic cult member. AOC and Bernie are rebels. Gabbard and RFK are scammers.
Two thank-yous, JVL: 1) When I was campaigning prior to the election, the woman who was the volunteer coordinator at my local Dem office told me about basically being in shock for a year after the 2016 election. She expressed this to a Black friend, and his response was, "Black people weren't shocked. We've always known who this country is." Yours and Van's discussion here perfectly echoes what she told me; thank you for making the point.
2) Thank you for considering that Republican efforts for decades have led to where we are today - even if Van doesn't really seem to agree. I don't think T was inevitable, but I do think he's a very logical result. I've been saying this for a while, and have always thought you'd be the perfect person to examine it. Until we really understand how we got here I don't think we can figure out an effective solution - a point Van made as well (tho not in connection w/ Repubs). All the accused failings of Dems have been discussed ad infinitum; where's the finger-pointing at Republicans pre-T? Particularly key IMO are the themes of victimhood, "big bad government," and racism.
(And I'll add a third: thank you for being back! Loved the couple of appearances you did last week, but sure missed your Triad.)
Agreed but I have a slight difference with you about Trump. Whilst not inevitable, looking on from Australia I thought his win in 2016 was highly probable - 2024 though I couldn't believe America would elect him with all the information that was available, and give him the House & Senate to boot.
The reason I thought Trump was highly probable, is that America has failed to fully admit, let alone come to terms with, it's long standing racist & misogynist undercurrents that have been around since the founding. His ascension was especially expected after the backlash to America electing a black President. You may not have seen how vitriolic the reaction to Obama was in America, but it was clear as day here in Australia.
Trump in 2016 was the avatar that racists could attach to, and running against a woman was an easy fit for the misogynists. America had broken one ceiling with a black President, there was no way your country was going to follow so quickly with a woman lol. Add to that other voters who saw a celebrity they only knew from TV, and thinking that throwing a wrench into the system would shake it up without any real damage.
During his first term though, the more intelligent, malevolent planners saw a buffoon that only cared about the title not the job, and what he could personally get out of it. They worked out that with a proper plan and with savvy people in certain positions, they could pretty much get him to do what they wanted as long as they could enrich him & surround him with sycophants - they knew he cared nothing about policy really. I thought their mistake though was publishing Project 2025 & putting it out there for all the world to see - I believed the bulk of American people would say 'Hell No!' to that and vote for sanity & their country.
I was so, so wrong about the American voters. The fires of hatred for others in too many American souls burned hotter than I thought. And too many others didn't seem to care enough either way to bother voting at all.
Your observations are so accurate, especially the last paragraph. I think so many of my white fellow citizens, just don't grasp the extremes of our society, that practiced such legalized, extreme hate towards black folk here, since America's birth in 1776, until the 1960's. logic should tell anyone, that around 200 straight years of that type racism, including civil war, is not going to be minimized even today. There's always been backlash when we've made positive racial change. Voting rights 60's; integration 70's 80's; political empowerment 90's through today. All followed by a nasty racist backlash. DEI is the new boogeyman backlash. Reminds me of something so positive, such as integration in the70's, being turned into such a nasty, negative term.
I believe Trumps initial election was backlash following Obama's 2 term election. It continues with assaults on voting rights & DEI today. Neither of his elections surprised me, but have to admit, made me SO disappointed in people that voted for him. Same disappointment, different time. I went to school in 50's-60's, followed by military. Many, many immediate family were military, including WW2, & all way back to civil war. My relatives that came before me, are my inspiration, including my dad that fought in a segregated military in WW2. Can't let them down. They experienced much worse than I. That's why I believe black folk are some of the most patriotic Americans out there. We know this country still has some serious faults. But this is my country, just as much as any other American. Never will stop fighting to make it a more inclusive, better place.
Very discouraged? Been there, many times before. Getting tired of doing whatever I can legally, to defeat the evil administration in power now? Tired, but more determined than tired. Too many like minded, moral Americans out there. Mostly though, I can't let the Ancestors down. They're watching. lol
Well said. As someone who volunteered to wear my country's uniform, I understand your reasoning. Whilst in the Army I met many American servicemen from across your services. I found them on the whole to be decent human beings and dedicated to the service of their country. Sure there were some dickheads to, but that's just the human condition no matter what country you go to lol. Whilst I doubt any of those people are still serving (it was the 80's to early 90's), I have to hope that the discipline and love of country is still the culture in your forces, as well as the belief of those I knew that it was the American people they served, not the President. I only say that as it is plain to see Trump's administration plans to put the military on the streets of America, and your men and women in uniform may be put into a position they should never be put in. There will be decisions that need to be made, and I hope they are the right ones for the sake of your country.
In the first few weeks following Trump's 2nd inauguration I admit that I had lost faith in the American people. I had seen them elect someone who was not only a danger to your country, but dangerous to the world, and his failings and attitudes were not a secret. And for a while it seemed like Americans were ok with their decision, but the following months have shown that your fellow citizens are not ok with all that is happening. The courts are standing up & ruling against the administration, and that's even in circuits where I thought he'd win. Whether SCOTUS does the right thing when the big cases hit is an open question, but for America's sake I hope that there's at least 5 Justices who decide the Constitution means something. The people are hitting the streets in towns & cities big and small. Some organisations are standing up instead of taking the knee & they should be supported, whilst those that bend the knee should be avoided. The fight is joined and MAGA is outnumbered, the evidence seems to suggest the hard core of the cult is roughly 20-30% of those who vote.
Whilst international trust in America has taken a big hit and will involve some time and hard work to repair (America did elect this guy twice lol), I believe it is premature to give up on the American people as a whole. On a positive side for your great experiment, the things this administration is doing demonstrates what laws your country needs to strengthen or enact, what systems need to be shored up or built, and perhaps even what Constitutional amendments need to be put to the American people. One thing that definitely needs to happen for America's healing to begin when you win the fight, is accountability for those who collaborated in the illegal and unconstitutional acts being undertaken. The answer of "I was just following orders" was not accepted almost a century ago, and should not be acceptable now. And if anyone is keen on pardons for the sake of national unity and healing, I point to how Nixon's pardon may have contributed to where America is at the moment regarding the insane SCOTUS immunity decision & previous impeachment attempts of Trump. I actually think the pardon power & how it can be used should be one of the Amendments under discussion lol.
To expand on the words of JVL - best of luck America!
I was over the moon when Obama was elected, and indeed oblivious to the reaction it caused on the other side.
As for P2025, polls showed the vast majority of voters were opposed; but either they lied or they believed T when he said he knew nothing about it.
"The fires of hatred" - yep. That's been the hardest for me to grapple with. As I said to a MAGA neighbor, this is a movement driven by hate, greed, and lies. How that resonates w/ so many is something I still can't fathom.
Thanks for having Van on this show, such a calm and insightful presence, I’ve always thought he was a super thoughtful person. Glad to see he’s on Substack now!
I agree with Van Jones in principle when he says the Democrats made a mistake in pushing out their rebels. That's an important point. That being said, I can't help but say good riddance to Gabbard, Kennedy, Musk, and Rogan.
Sharing this with my son who is a student at Bates College- really insightful and honest discussion- I love sharing and discussing with him later
When Cory Booker was on with Tim Miller last week, and Tim expressed shock and outrage, Cory said the same to Tim: yeah, welcome to America.
I respectfully disagree that the MAGA Republicans are more welcoming of dissenting ideas. If this was true why was Liz Chaney expelled? Why did Bob Corker and Jeff Flake lose their jobs? Personally living in Texas, I encounter MAGA daily. You must agree with them in total or you are a suspected "woke liberal". I think Van went a little overboard on this; however, extreme left wingers can be just as bad.
I think this is a good point. To me it seems that the only thing you can't say on the right is anything anti-MAGA. They'll take any crackpot from anywhere on the political spectrum as long as they don't say anything against Trump or anything in the MAGA-verse. This isn't a true free speech position, and Musk's "free speech absolutism" on Twitter/X (which has been anything but) is a perfect example. And, you are correct that the extreme left is just as bad.
Exactly.
If there's any disagreement, especially on facts, then you're not just told being wrong but you're a traitor. And that capturered the GOP.
And even Trump isn't immune for that. He tried to brag about the Operation Warp speed (which was genuinenly a great accomplishment) got booed and proved his antivax creds by appointing RFK jr.
Thanks for a great conversation. I only have one comment about Donald Trump switching from the Democratic to the Republican Party. Trump is purely transactional, he does not have true political convictions. I think that Trump was a Democrat because as a real estate developer in NYC, he needed to get permits, etc. approved from a primarily Democratic government. When he decided to run for office, he knew that the Democrats wouldn't nominate him so he switched parties. He is not a true believer in the old Republican Party principles, he is a party of one. Everything is about him.
Love Van Jones! I always learn something when I watch an interview with him.
Sane Americans who want to retain our Democratic Republic must try to defeat vulnerable Republicans by holding peaceful demonstrations in front of their local offices.
Van Jones' insight and ability to dissect and discuss these issues is stellar. Thank you for having him share his wisdom with us!
Wonderful conversation- JVL- kudos to you for admitting your blind spot growing up in white culture. I think it is rare to have someone in your position being so genuine and humble about what you don’t know and what you are learning about. Dare I say, you are getting woke?! I love Vans take on right problem crazy horrible solution on the right. Nuanced. And also his humility about what he didn’t know and is now studying. Really amazing piece!!!
JVL: I’ve waited so long for this episode. I’m going to share it with so many fellow social justice / Christ-centered Catholic friends and family. I’m grateful for your honesty and I truly hope to hear more from you on the topic of faith, politics, and ideas. Thank you to Van Jones for expressing what must get said, and hopefully will be said here more often. Thank you thank you to all.
So kind of you. Thanks Dot.
Truly. It is the truth you both spoke to. I’d really love to send you an email abt speaking at my parish for our adult education series. Wish yall did a whole series on faith, bc we both know it’s at the heart of all of this.
This was a great show! Two of my favorite people, whom I very much admire and respect, together talking smart talk. My only criticism was that it was too short. Should have been 3 hours long. I hope you do this again soon. We all need more provocative questions and truly insightful answers. Van brings a perspective that is both interesting and profound; JVL, despite(or because of) his cynicism, asks the tough, even uncomfortable questions. The combination is smart and inspirational. Thanks again to both of you,
His takes at 4:30 are spot on. Good show JVL.
Interesting conversation. Some good points all around. I would question the comments about "big pharma". It is popular to bash these companies, and I am sure there is some justification, but the brush is too broad. My wife worked as a scientist for Pfizer for many years, and helped create a medicine that saved or prolonged thousands of lives. Their CEO bravely went all in on the covid vaccine, and saved maybe 14+ million lives, while idling but paying their entire non-covid staff. These things can only be accomplished effectively by a large, wealthy company that cares about its employees and their mission. While regulatory capture maybe worrying to some, given that the current administration is removing regulatory structures across the board, worrying about regulatory capture seems quaint, it seems the regulatory apparatus is now for sale. We might want to focus on how we will all be exposed to more risks of all kinds.
I think the Sacklers tarnished the reputation of virtually every pharmaceutical company in business today. Certainly they are not all bad; and a for profits company needs to make decisions that keep them in business so they can continue to do good work. But the numbers can be disturbing, and opioids have made everyone question motives of those profiting from their sale.
Yeah fair enough. There is always grift and immorality. That's why removing the regulatory structures disturbs me, now we won identify the bad actors.
True. Everything is about to get a whole lot harder, for everyone but the bad guys.
Van is always a voice I listen to...he's calm, well informed, and logical.
Van Jones is such a tool. His opinion has zero value.
Van's opinions here seem sensible.
Never been a fan of vague denigration.
Van is the man
Nah. He's not.
zero value? If your opinion has value, please elaborate.
It's a comment section on the internet. Feel free to ignore.
Jones' opinion on any topic isn't worth the time nor any discussion.
Hey Jennifer: This is exactly the opposite of what we try to do here. This isn’t another comment section on the internet. It’s a community. And the goal of this space is to add value.
If a comment isn’t adding value then you shouldn’t make it.
Please do better.
And this tit for tat response isn’t helpful either. Please do better fam.
LOL. Aren't you a tough guy.
Not a guy.
Loved Van Jones. Speaks so well with wisdom and truth.
Sincere question JVL, does Substack live not allow you to use your mic or is the compression so bad it makes you sound like you're coming through a webcam? Your audio is normally crystal clear on all other broadcasts, just didn't want to say nothing in case it hadn't come up.
Substack Live makes you use your phone, which means that the mic is limited to my AirPod microphone. I can’t use the studio mic I use for everything else. So the sound is lousy. Sorry.
An excellent conversation. The dangers of conformity in thought-very under appreciated. His closing thoughts should be run on a loop when all us white privileged folks drop into the black hole of despair.
I sent this to my brother, a political scince prof at Williams College in MA. He said.”I’m a member!” Made me happy!
Haven’t been following Van Jones for awhile, but think he was outstanding in today’s interview. Plan to
I intend to check him out on Substack.
Van Jones
First; I really enjoyed this conversation. Second; I have to admit that it makes me feel so inferior to listen to really smart people provide a bit of self examination and self doubt about what they thought they saw at a point in time and compare/contrast that view with what they think ‘in the now’. Third; I know this isn’t very eye opening or original, but, It was and is the people! I think we continually employ self examination to try to explain the reality of our situation, i.e., that a twisting and turning majority of our fellow humans are constantly being fed (and gleefully devouring) a reason to hate & a reason to blame the other, which conveniently affords them the opportunity to avoid looking in the mirror. It isn’t very comforting to look and see the abject ugliness, the ugliest, of human-kind swallowing every gulp of hate they can get their hands on. And I am at a loss of what the ‘cure’ for that might be. But RFK and the dept. of HHS sure ain’t recommending it as part of our daily diet.
So well said; thank you.
FYI: don't know what caused your message to post five times, but if you want to delete the extras, you can click on the three dots (...) to the right of your name and one option should be to delete.
First; I really enjoyed this conversation. Second; I have to admit that it makes me feel so inferior to listen to really smart people provide a bit of self examination and self doubt about what they thought they saw at a point in time and compare/contrast that view with what they think ‘in the now’. Third; I know this isn’t very eye opening or original, but, It was and is the people! I think we continually employ self examination to try to explain the reality of our situation, i.e., that a twisting and turning majority of our fellow humans are constantly being fed (and gleefully devouring) a reason to hate & a reason to blame the other, which conveniently affords them the opportunity to avoid looking in the mirror. It isn’t very comforting to look and see the abject ugliness, the ugliest, of human-kind swallowing every gulp of hate they can get their hands on. And I am at a loss of what the ‘cure’ for that might be. But RFK and the dept. of HHS sure ain’t recommending it as part of our daily diet.
First; I really enjoyed this conversation. Second; I have to admit that it makes me feel so inferior to listen to really smart people provide a bit of self examination and self doubt about what they thought they saw at a point in time and compare/contrast that view with what they think ‘in the now’. Third; I know this isn’t very eye opening or original, but, It was and is the people! I think we continually employ self examination to try to explain the reality of our situation, i.e., that a twisting and turning majority of our fellow humans are constantly being fed (and gleefully devouring) a reason to hate & a reason to blame the other, which conveniently affords them the opportunity to avoid looking in the mirror. It isn’t very comforting to look and see the abject ugliness, the ugliest, of human-kind swallowing every gulp of hate they can get their hands on. And I am at a loss of what the ‘cure’ for that might be. But RFK and the dept. of HHS sure ain’t recommending it as part of our daily diet.
First; I really enjoyed this conversation. Second; I have to admit that it makes me feel so inferior to listen to really smart people provide a bit of self examination and self doubt about what they thought they saw at a point in time and compare/contrast that view with what they think ‘in the now’. Third; I know this isn’t very eye opening or original, but, It was and is the people! I think we continually employ self examination to try to explain the reality of our situation, i.e., that a twisting and turning majority of our fellow humans are constantly being fed (and gleefully devouring) a reason to hate & a reason to blame the other, which conveniently affords them the opportunity to avoid looking in the mirror. It isn’t very comforting to look and see the abject ugliness, the ugliest, of human-kind swallowing every gulp of hate they can get their hands on. And I am at a loss of what the ‘cure’ for that might be. But RFK and the dept. of HHS sure ain’t recommending it as part of our daily diet.
First; I really enjoyed this conversation. Second; I have to admit that it makes me feel so inferior to listen to really smart people provide a bit of self examination and self doubt about what they thought they saw at a point in time and compare/contrast that view with what they think ‘in the now’. Third; I know this isn’t very eye opening or original, but, It was and is the people! I think we continually employ self examination to try to explain the reality of our situation, i.e., that a twisting and turning majority of our fellow humans are constantly being fed (and gleefully devouring) a reason to hate & a reason to blame the other, which conveniently affords them the opportunity to avoid looking in the mirror. It isn’t very comforting to look and see the abject ugliness, the ugliest, of human-kind swallowing every gulp of hate they can get their hands on. And I am at a loss of what the ‘cure’ for that might be. But RFK and the dept. of HHS sure ain’t recommending it as part of our daily diet.
Van Jones? Really? Ugh. Weathervane grifter. Never interesting. He's like a barnacle of politics…nothing useful, just there.
Strong disagree.
Van Jones? Really? Ugh. Weathervane grifter.
Van Jones? Really? Ugh. Weathervane grifter.
Van Jones? Really? Ugh. Weathervane grifter.
Van Jones? Really? Ugh. Weathervane grifter. Never interesting. He's like a barnacle of politics…nothing useful, just there.
I'll read a transcript is you've got one - don't want to spend time listening to a glib grifter like Van Jones. He came here to defend an SF official steering public money to her nonprofit by attacking anyone questioning it as racist. (And over time, she was removed and her bosses turned out to be money and favors on the side and were removed too)
Every video has a "Transcript" button below it; on my screen it's to the right.
Van Jones? Really? Ugh. Weathervane grifter. Never interesting. He's like a barnacle of politics…nothing useful, just there.
Outstanding pod! I adore Van Jones and of course you JVL! What a truly honest and beautiful conversation. Thank you for this today.
So, Bill Maher was right all along!
So, Bill Maher was right all along!
That was a really great conversation.
That was a really great conversation.
Van Jones is stunning in his responses and has a handle on all areas addressed here. Thank you!
Van Jones is stunning in his responses and has a handle on all areas addressed here. Thank you!
Two of my favs!
Two of my favs!
Love the clear sightedness of this interview, and I appreciate the closing comments, especially, about the dream and promise...
Love the clear sightedness of this interview, and I appreciate the closing comments, especially, about the dream and promise...
Love the clear sightedness of this interview, and I appreciate the closing comments, especially, about the dream and promise...
Well, sorry about the repeat note- but it might reflect the urgency I've been feeling for- well, over 100 days.
What a great conversation. Really enlightening. This was so great. It gives me hope
Jeeziz Van! We need to hurry the fuck up and destroy these guys, not understand them.
I loved the conversation and your humility, JVL. Always good to hear what Van has to say. His wisdom is so needed now.
100% agree with what Van Jones said about cancel culture and the culture of conformity on the left. "You have to have the emotional and psychological safety to disagree." If you can't disagree with each other, you stop being innovative. SO MUCH THIS.
The culture of conformity drives me nuts. I still disagree pwith the Grand Lefties of Bluesky from time to time, but I take heat from their followers, and there is rarely any backup from others.
My take as a centrist who moved well left over the past few decades is that large heterodox communities will always have a loud and disagreeable element, efforts to 'cancel' people are what that is. Innovation happens when people push through those boundaries and show the community as a whole that the new ideas are compatable. The left as far as I've known it has never been homodox, it's always been about different people with an underlying base of goals built around respect for all.
The right from a political perspective is homodox and provides the illusion of freedom when the whims of the power seeking politicians is the only goal it has ever served.
I grew up with very left-leaning parents, and I've been in left-leaning circles my whole life. In my personal experience (which is not, of course, a wide sample of the experiences of people on the left) there has been a shift in left-centric culture from then to now. Cancel culture never used to exist, for one. I had my own experiences during the Bernie Bro era of being shouted down on Twitter by far leftists (and by shouted down, I mean repeatedly attacked) merely for expressing an opinion that wasn't 100% pro-Bernie. (And in terms of domestic policy goals, I'm 100% aligned with Bernie, my dad voted for Bernie in the primary for the 2016 election - that's the kind of left-leaning family I come from and the kind of values I embrace.) It got to a point where I was afraid to even ask people questions in public (on Twitter) because I didn't want to be attacked by hordes who didn't think my views were "correct." Whether it was real people, or bots & trolls, I can't be sure. But the effect was to shut down my desire to attempt to engage in dialogue. And it wasn't just online. I also had similar experiences in person. I think on the left there has been, in maybe the last 10-15 years, a growing tendency to believe people are "evil" or "stupid" if they don't hold to a certain set of beliefs. I've felt it, I know others have felt it, and I stand by saying that this is a real problem. It's good to engage with ideas you don't agree with. It's healthy, even if you end up thinking exactly what you did to begin with. It's good to realize not everyone thinks like you, and to learn to live in that reality. I grew up with conservative friends, and we used to argue politics for *fun*, in the spirit of being Americans in a country where such a thing is allowed and encouraged. And if we want a free society, it's imperative that we allow for disagreement in discourse amongst ourselves, regardless of our personal political views.
It isn't the same. In the spring of 2016, I attended an Educator's Conference at Exeter and discovered the far left had lost its mind. Our group leader, a trans male, began stressing the importance of the new trans platform. I told him that from Stonewall in 1969 to 2015 gay marriage the summer before was 46 YEARS, and expecting the country to gravitate to codifying trans concerns was going to take more than 6 months. I was honest about my reservation of shining a spotlight on it. He was outraged and instantly accused me of being transphobic.There were other disagreements I won't listen here, but his hostility was real and prevented anyone from discussion many topics at the conference. Nowadays, I don't give a rat's behind what they think, but it took a few years to insist on the pushback. People who were FURIOUS with me now say they were glad I wasn't intimidated, but so many were, and ARE. It's a real problem.
IMO we need to re-learn how to foster a spirit of “Your perspective is welcome and important, and so is the perspective of everyone else in this room. And if we need to reach a consensus, some of us might not get everything we want. And if you didn’t get everything you want this time, you can keep pushing, keep advocating for your perspective, and bring it up again next time.” It’s frustrating, and it’s too slow, but that’s how change happens. As a woman, there are a number of items on my “change agenda” that I’ve yet to see come to fruition. (And other items I thought were settled that are moving backwards.)
I watched this live today. Super informative. Thanks JVL! I really connected with what Van Jones had to share. So helpful to understanding how the heck we Dems move forward demonstratively!